Tsar Samoil and the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia

[Pelister]

hey how are the church lawsuits going down under? i hear aussie lawyers have racked in more money then the us lawyer over church disputes, is that true?

Honestly, what has the Church dispute in Australia got to do with the topic of this thread? Again, irrelevent, and stupid.

[julie]

pajko our name is not a game for us it may be for you . Australia is faring well financially thank you unlike your country cant wait till china calls in the debt ! Or will umd fund more boat cruises and hero awards with member based funds you tool . By the way congratulations on your first post not linking mak news , are you suffering withdrawal symptoms ?

[kykypajko]

Completely irrelevent and out of left field, again. You havn't contributed a single thing of value to this thread. We were getting this kind of garbage from UMD followers a few years ago, looks like nothing had changed. FYI, nationalism in its modern form has been around since about the 16th century.

hey how are the church lawsuits going down under? i hear aussie lawyers have racked in more money then the us lawyer over church disputes, is that true?

i'm starting to think that maybe the soros/crvenkovski/nazi/loch ness monster/zionist/masons are trying to divert our attention with a little church history and scandal

but since you've solved the whole name game i guess its ok to dabble in a bit of theological discussions

[Pelister]

Hey T.M.

This subject has fascinated me.

I found this interesting article in a 19th century British newspaper.

I'll just give you a bit of historical context. During the latter half of the 19th century, there was a movement among Bulgarians to break away from the oppression of the Greek clergy. The Bulgarians had sent petitions to the Porte for a separate Patriarch. At the same time articles had begun to appear in British newspapers (not many, but the number was growing), which misrepresented the demographic picture in Macedonia - these newspapers, usually guessed who was there, and the term 'Bulgarian' to describe Macedonians, began to find its way into the British public's imagination (over many decades). Now in 1860 a number of Bulgarians had got together (near the Danube) and put together another petition, but this time they had to justify why the Sultan should give them a Church of their own. The following article is interesting, because is talks about what the authors of this petition were saying, and the 'story' they had invented. The Bulgarians had never had a Church of their own, no civilisation to speak of so they appropriated the Macedonian one. This comes out in the article. There were a number of blatant distortions, and anachronism's in the Bulgarians 'story' and clearly they had taken Macedonian historical figures, and names, and replaced it with 'Bulgarian' to try an invent a theocratic tradition of 'their own'.

Here is the article.

The Morning Chronicle (London, England), Tuesday, August 7, 1860; Issue 29196

Turkey

The oppressive rule of the Patriarch of the Tanar has become so odious in the eyes of the Bulgarians, that they now unconditionally demand a complete separation from the Orthodox Community, and the appointment of a separate Patriarch. They claim this on the ground of its being merely a restoration of what they were unjustly deprived of about a hundred years since. Justinian who was a native of Bulgaria in the year 553 founded the Patriarchate of Oclinda, which existed uninterrupted until 1767, when, through the intrigues of the Ypsilantes family, the authority was transferred to the Constantinople Patriarch... TURKEY .

To get their own Church these Bulgarians had to present a historical case to the Porte - so they took our own civilisation, and our own Christian tradition, by changing the 'title' of people and the place.

[Pelister]

the Exarchate Church was started in 1872, and you would have to understand the Ottoman Millet system and not apply your modern sense of nationality to a society that didn't have that concept

but what's the point of looking back when we have greater problems to solve

http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...la-t20469.html

Completely irrelevent and out of left field, again. You havn't contributed a single thing of value to this thread. We were getting this kind of garbage from UMD followers a few years ago, looks like nothing had changed. FYI, nationalism in its modern form has been around since about the 16th century.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Because events in the past have dictated our current predicament, because having knowledge about our own history is a good thing. Your link is irrelevant to the topic.

[kykypajko]

the Exarchate Church was started in 1872, and you would have to understand the Ottoman Millet system and not apply your modern sense of nationality to a society that didn't have that concept

but what's the point of looking back when we have greater problems to solve

http://www.maknews.com/forum/general-discussions/petition-for-national-strategy-petitcija-za-narodna-misla-t20469.html

[ArMakedon]

I think that the differences between Macedonians and Bulgarians are mostly political.

Nah, Anthropological and racial, not political.

[Dejan]

These bulgarian slavs are a joke

[TrueMacedonian]

Bump. Any Bulgarians out there care to comment?

[Soldier of Macedon]

If you can, that would be great.

[TrueMacedonian]

I only have excerpts myself. I'll check my library and post the book online if I find it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have some excerpts from Skylitzes regarding Samoil and Basil, but not the whole text. Any idea on how we can obtain it? Tried looking for it once but no luck as of yet.

[TrueMacedonian]

The Battle of Belasica/Kleidion myth


page 387









page 2

[TrueMacedonian]

I think I may have found the first time the terms "First Bulgarian Kingdom" and "Second Bulgarian Kingdom" were used. It seems that Edward Gibbons may be the culprit followed by William Martin Leake. These terms are recent inventions. Unless someone can provide their use from earlier times.