Origin of the Goths: Slavic or Germanic?

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #76
    Yes, but that is later history. We're mostly interested in the BC period. You only speak of the time the first Turkic speaking tribes appeared, not the time before them, the time we are interested in mostly.
    Who is "We"??? How you know from which period everyone prefers to read here? How come you are the one who decides what people interests with and what not??? Ohh, if you claimed this thread specifically for SOM and yourself, then tell me so i don't bother.

    The theories you present are completely alien to us.
    Nothing i`ve wrote here are theories cuz like you said, i am talking about later history, early medieval times and i am posting pictures of buildings, archeological findings here. You are the one who talk about theories of 10.000 BC, supposed homelands, myths and proto-somethings.

    I don't know what your sources are. There is nothing I have read in dozens of books on Eastern European, Gothic, Slavic or any other history for that matter that resembles what you speak of.
    I can guess that cuz you are so selective about what to read. It`s so obvious that you pick what you like and ignore the ones you don't prefer. Your behavior was so typical in another thread when i wrote about other theories of Mario Alinei which you have ignored and remained silent.

    You constantly accuse us of some form of ignorance, yet rarely has it been true.
    When did i do that? I just said that you are strictly closed to the other information if it`s contradicts your ideas.

    You are being overly defensive here.

    There is nothing I hate more than when people accuse me of not knowing something I actually do know. I can only wonder then what prompted them to make such a false conclusion of me. As if I didn't know how Theodoric the Goths mausoleum looked like? I made a model of the tomb from paper a few years ago for god's sake!
    You already knew that? Wow! grats, bravo, clap but you know there are also other people following this forum and i usually don't think about whether people already knows or not when i am gonna post something. This is about discussion, no one indoctrinates anyone here but it seems you are trying to do that.

    If you find offensive whenever you read things that you`ve already known, then it`s your inferiority complex and this is your own problem, not mine.

    We here know most of European history from that period, what we don't know is the pseudohistory you keep posting, from whatever dark hole you continue to pull it out of.
    You are being so annoying but i think you already know that. Again, i am posting the real world pictures in this thread but you are the one who keep talking about proto-that, proto-this, 10.000 BC homelands and mythology, yet i am being pseudo here???

    You are the one who speaks from that "dark hole" here
    .
    Last edited by Onur; 08-09-2011, 08:54 AM.

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13675

      #77
      Originally posted by Onur
      No, the word "bey" is written on 7th century Turkic runic stones. Persians doesn't use the title "bey".
      I don't see how that poses a problem, by then Turkic peoples had already been influenced by Iranian peoples. I could be wrong, but personally I think it is too similar. The Turkic/Mongol word 'altan' also looks very similar to Indo-European words for 'gold'.
      I just said that all the Gothic kings you wrote above and also Theodoric the Great has migrated to Europe from around Crimea, Ukraine, the "very well known and attested" homeland of east Germanic tribes.
      They settled in the regions around the Black Sea some time after they migrated from their original homeland, that is how they became east Germanic. It is only after this period that many of them, like Theodoric, began to move westward.
      I can elaborate but i think that would be futile cuz both you and slovak seems like you are obsessed with your own theories and strictly closed to anything which contradicts your own ideas, even if it`s concrete buildings and other archeological findings.
      That is an unnecessary rant borne out of misguided frustration. There's really no need for getting defensive, unless you feel that your own theories are becoming swiss cheese. You make a statement, and then you go all wierd when you are asked to elaborate. What's your problem?
      ......cuz he was probably living in yurts at earlier times as all other Germanic people before they have been romanized and christianized.
      The presenter in the first video link you provided actually says that the Goths weren't nomadic and lived just like the Romans. Where exactly is it stated anywhere that Germanic people lived in yurts?
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Delodephius
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 736

        #78
        I can guess that cuz you are so selective about what to read. It`s so obvious that you pick what you like and ignore the ones you don't prefer.
        That is the main misconception you have about me.

        no one indoctrinates anyone here but it seems you are trying to do that.
        No one has complained since I started doing it in 2005-ish. If you have knowledge, either use it or teach it. Indoctrination is a bit of rough word however.

        You are the one who speaks from that "dark hole" here.
        I'll past that to the thousands of historians. If I can find them. It is awfully dark in here mind you.

        Who is "We"???
        When I say WE I know exactly who I mean. There are people here on this forum I consider friends and whom I had the pleasure of debating and discussing with for half a decade.
        I am quite unsure of what is your purpose here. No one has told me, and you haven't shown. You don't seem to have any interest in Macedonian history except glorifying everything Turkic and criticizing everything Greek and Western.
        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
        This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

        Comment

        • Onur
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2010
          • 2389

          #79
          Originally posted by Delodephius View Post
          No one has complained since I started doing it in 2005-ish. If you have knowledge, either use it or teach it.
          Ok, thats fine, but you shouldn't complain either if someone refuses to play your game of prof. Slovak with his students.


          I am quite unsure of what is your purpose here. No one has told me, and you haven't shown. You don't seem to have any interest in Macedonian history except glorifying everything Turkic and criticizing everything Greek and Western.
          I didn't get who were the "WE" but now i gotta ask;
          Who are you to question my purpose here? Did i ever ask you what a slovak does here? I understood that you like to play a teacher but you wanna be a forum police now?

          Comment

          • Delodephius
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 736

            #80
            Hey, I'm just here coz there are interesting things being discussed, I have friends here and I was asked politely to be here. The original reason was that I felt sympathy for the Macedonians and what they had to suffer, plus I was a Pan-Slavist back when I started. That's five reasons I believe. Now I'm not pretending to be a "policeman", I think the moderators are here for that, but I do think that any member has the right to ask questions and investigate the purpose of other members, to see their motives.
            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13675

              #81
              Originally posted by Delodephius View Post
              I do think that any member has the right to ask questions and investigate the purpose of other members, to see their motives.
              You're absolutely correct.

              You are both welcome here, and while you don't see eye to eye on some things (same applies with everybody else), in this instance Onur has become defensive rather than positively responding to some of the questions posed. At the end of the day, if you're going to make an assertion you need to be able to corroborate it. When someone tells me that Germanic tribes lived in yurts - which is common for Turkic and Mongol peoples - then one would think that a request for elaboration is to be expected.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13675

                #82
                Originally posted by Delodephius View Post
                I just read in a dictionary (and also found a similar entry on Wikipedia), that "mir, měr, mierz, myr" could also mean "prestige" in Common Slavic, besides "peace" and "world".

                Peace migrated to English from French. Pax, the etymon of peace, stood for “something fixed, united, joined together”; hence pact. Among its numerous, often barely recognizable cognates, whose meanings go all the way from “make firm; satisfy” to “seize, receive” and thereby “make firm,” the ancestor of Engl. fair “beautiful, pleasing” turns up (Germanic f corresponds to Latin p, as in the pater ~ father couple), and it is especially interesting. Peace, with its show of stability, was clearly understood as a good thing. In most Slavic languages the word for “peace” is mir, known to the outside world from the name of the space station “Mir,” though in Russian mir has two senses: “peace” and “world.” This word is akin to mil- “nice, pleasant.” The sense attested in the English adjective fair does not seem to have been present in the closest cognates of pax, but the Germanic-Slavic parallel is not fortuitous: peace is something “fixed” and “beautiful.” Another curious coincidence may be worthy of note. Russian mir “world” developed from “community of farmers,” so that “togetherness” yielded “peace.” Obviously related to pax is Latin pagus “(rural) district, the country,” originally “landmark fixed in the earth,” whence paganus “rustic,” later “pagan.” Once again living together, in a community, became inseparable from “peace.”
                I have the book written by Anatoly Liberman, it seems like an interesting read, good information on etymologies and the formation of words.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  #83
                  There is an Hapsburg`s ambassador to Istanbul named Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq from 1552 to 1562 AD. He stayed in Istanbul for 10 years but traveled all around Turkey and constantly sent reports to Vienna.

                  We were talking about the tulips in Holland in other thread. This ambassador was Flemish (Dutch) in origin and this guy was the first man who brought tulips to Europe from Istanbul gardens;
                  He was an avid collector, acquiring valuable manuscripts, rare coins and curios of various kinds. Among the best known of his discoveries was a 6th century copy of Dioscorides' De Materia Medica, a compendium of medicinal herbs. The emperor purchased it after Busbecq's recommendation; the manuscript is now known as the Vienna Dioscorides. His passion for herbalism led him to send Turkish tulip bulbs to his friend Charles de l'Écluse, who acclimatized them to life in the Low Countries. Less than a century later tulip mania was sweeping the United Provinces and ruining its financial markets. Busbecq has also been credited with introducing the lilac to Europe (though this is debated)[2] as well as the Angora goat.[1]
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogier_Ghiselin_de_Busbecq

                  He was also the guy who attested the last remaining Goths in Crimea and noted their language for the last time. He calls them as Tatars at first because they were the horsemen of Crimea but he thinks that they either should be the descendants of Goths or Saxons because they were speaking German language.

                  It`s funny that he relates their habit of eating horse meat without cooking is some kind of barbarian custom. Actually, what Gothic nomads did was, what we call as "pastirma". Pastirma, "pressed meat" in Turkish is the best and easiest meal for mobile horsemen. They were slicing the meat, putting under the saddle to let it dry faster with the horse`s heat generated from it`s skin. It was practical because dried meat doesn't get spoiled and doesn't need cold to be preserved.

                  It`s also interesting that he mentions about the chief of Tatars who raised among these Goths. So, we can say that these last remaining Goths of Crimea who didn't migrate to the Europe, mingled with Tatars or Slavs and disappeared from history.
                  Last edited by Onur; 03-02-2012, 07:11 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Voltron
                    Banned
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1362

                    #84
                    So basically you guys invented beef jerky then you claim to be the ones that developed all that delicate "Turkish Cuisine" we Greeks eat.
                    Beef jerky and yoghurt the primary diet of nomads.

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