The Miladinov Brothers & Macedonian Literature - 19th Century

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  • Pavel
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 155

    #61
    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
    Зборникот го доби името бугарски, иако од 660, 584 се македонски, а 76 се бугарски. Константин Миладинов со собрани македонски песни беше во Русија, а таму мислел да го објави. Таму, во Русија, него го викале Македонец.
    Таков бил одговорот што Константин му го дал на клисарот на киевската соборна црква "Св. Софија", кога одговорил дека "не е Грек" туку Македонец. Рускиот славист А.В. Рачински дека рецензентите што го разгледувале понудениот зборник што го предложил за Печат самиот К. Миладинов, тие биле одушевени од содржината и складноста "на некои од македонските песни". Во разговор со бугарскиот поет, како што пишува подоцна Георги Раковски, Константин ја соопштил намерата: "ја има многу македонски песни што сакам да ги издадам..." По идењето во Загреб, по совет на Штросмаер зборникот го добива името бугарски. Имено, при една посета на Загреб, кога се сретнал со бугарскиот книжевник, фолклорист и дипломат Васил Чолаков, го замолил да му даде 100 песни: од Бугарија, за да може да го нарече својот зборник бугарски. Ова се гледа од писмото на Васил Чолаков до Фрањо Рачки: од 12.4.1862 година /по смртта на Миладиновци/. Во писмото се наведува дека песните не се подарени, туку продадени.
    Да цитираме дел од писмото:

    "Може да ви йе познато - му пишува Чолаков на Рачки - че като дойдох преминътъта година в Загреб, покойнийт мой друг Константин Миладинов ме умоли да му дам сто песни из въсточните старни на България, за да може да даде названйе своята збирка "Български народни песни"". Аз - додава Чолаков - с благодарение испълних молбата на свойт друг, като ми ся врече да ми даде непременно сто (100) форинта от тукашните предбройници за трудът ми. Но като предбройниците не испратиха парите с време, то йест докле беше сам Миладинов в Загреб, и като не знаех и аз че ще мя постигне таково зло в тукашните старни, то оставихме да се наплатиме в свое време като се върна в България".





    Од писмото се гледаат две работи: дека бугарските песни се додадени само за да може да се даде името бугарски народни песни, а не македонски.

    Од предговорот кон Зборникот, како и од јазичните анализи се гледа дека 564 песни се од околината на десетте македонски градови Струга, Охрид, Битола, Дебар, Велес, Костур, Воден, Кукуш, Струмица и Прилеп., а 76.-те песни /од стотте/ што ги добил од В. Чолаков се од околината на Софија и Панаѓуриште.
    excellent post Brate!! you give us a link too, very good.

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      #62
      Originally posted by Pavel View Post
      excellent post Brate!! you give us a link too, very good.
      The link is useful but the author of the text is also important - Dragi Stefanija .

      About the reason why and how the word "Macedonian'' vanished from the title we learn from one of the letters of the Bulgarian Cholakov adressed to Dr. Franjo Rachki (the right hand of Strossmayer where the work was printed) which he directs at April 12, 1862 year.


      Namely, the Bulgarian Cholakov tells him(Rachki) that the dead comrade Konstantin Miladinov allegedly demanded also 100 songs from the eastern side of Bulgaria, to be able to give the title-"Bulgarian folk songs". And also that he(Konstantin) agreed to pay for each song 1 forint (the patriot seeking money right). But because Miladinov dies in Constantinople, now Cholakov imposes the debt as condition on the title to stand for what he claim - "Bulgarian".

      However, the greedy Bulgarian gave only 76 songs instead of the supposed 100.

      And now.. we face a paradox where the work is called "Bulgarian folk songs" and containing all together 660 songs, of which only 76 are Bulgarian and the rest 584 are pure Macedonian folk songs.
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13675

        #63
        Originally posted by Prolet View Post
        SOM, The Bulgarians are directly involved in every shape or form, if they can cause such a stir because of Spaska Mitrova then this topic goes way over the top for them.
        That is because people like you allow them to get a foot in, by acknowledging any link with Bulgarians at all. By doing this rather than dismissing their garbage, you provide legitimacy to their claims, like they really have a concern to address.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          #64
          That's right SoM, there shouldn't be any silence on these matters only because it annoys somebody, whoever he is, we shouldn't show any good will untill we succeed in recovering the whole truth.

          If we keep things like this in silent we will never get rid of those sick bastards.
          Last edited by Bratot; 03-28-2010, 08:38 PM.
          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • Prolet
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 5241

            #65
            SOM, You give me no choice but to give you a complement. I like the way you think, like a true fighter but unfortunately its not as simple as that because you know that we cant underestimate anybody, it does sound pathetic i agree with you but believe me Braka Miladinovci are a sensitive issue for the Bulgarian Nationalists, they'll probably pin the one on us for not having so called good neighborly relations.

            Lets hope the Croats can get this right, it would be a great honor if they did.
            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

            Comment

            • Makemustara
              Banned
              • Mar 2010
              • 11

              #66
              Interesting, interesting...
              So, who is sponsoring the documentary?

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13675

                #67
                Originally posted by Prolet
                .........it does sound pathetic i agree with you but believe me Braka Miladinovci are a sensitive issue for the Bulgarian Nationalists, they'll probably pin the one on us for not having so called good neighborly relations.
                It not only sounds pathetic, it is. That is why you shouldn't entertain such pathetic assertions, much less acknowledge them, like they carry any weight at all. Like I said before, by doing this, you are giving them undeserving credibility.

                Let the Bulgars whinge, their pathetic assertions will rightfully fall on deaf years if they are considered just that, pathetic assertions. Every example of theirs borders on lunacy, for years I would have internet Bulgars claiming that "svoboda" is the only true word for freedom because the revolutionaries used the literary language learned in the Exarchate.

                Perhaps Majkamustara can show me exactly where "svoboda" is used by the Miladinovci brothers during their travels in Macedonia.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Pavel
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 155

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                  SOM, You give me no choice but to give you a complement. I like the way you think, like a true fighter but unfortunately its not as simple as that because you know that we cant underestimate anybody, it does sound pathetic i agree with you but believe me Braka Miladinovci are a sensitive issue for the Bulgarian Nationalists, they'll probably pin the one on us for not having so called good neighborly relations.

                  Lets hope the Croats can get this right, it would be a great honor if they did.
                  what do you mean prolet?? are you saying that the film should be designed to suit bulgarian chauvinism in order to maintain "good neighbourly relations"??

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13675

                    #69
                    Prolet becomes dizzy when he plays devil's advocate, hence the jibberish.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #70
                      Pavel, Who knows what they'll do mate and i dont want to know, i just dont want to hear their crap anymore. Did you hear the uproar they caused about Spaska Mitrova??

                      SOM, You do recall Bozidar Dimitrov in one of his shows saying how he'll give anybody 100,000 Euros if they can show him a valid document that Braka Miladinovci were not Bulgarian.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13675

                        #71
                        Prolet, so?

                        Once again, you give credibility to the racist morons like Dimitrov by even acknowledging his garbage, you seem to lack the capacity to learn from these silly mistakes that you make time and time again.
                        Originally posted by Prolet
                        .........i just dont want to hear their crap anymore
                        So why do you keep repeating it and giving it a mention? Do you have some sort of desire to listen to their 'crap' when it is coming from yourself? Why do you waste our time with these irrelevant statements and citations of idiots? Why do you lend weight to their idiocy? Why do you play the devil's advocate for Greek and Bulgar racists?

                        Why do you even bother?
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Mikail
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1338

                          #72
                          He repeats coz he like to make trouble?? Can you think of another reason??

                          Oh and I'l add a few more ??, ??, ??'s
                          From the village of Pípezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"

                          Comment

                          • Prolet
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 5241

                            #73
                            Well lets not speculate any further and see what happens.
                            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13675

                              #74
                              If you want to speculate become a news reporter for Dnevnik, I am sure they would love your type of baseless literature and devil's advocacy.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Prolet
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 5241

                                #75
                                SOM, You are being unreasonable here

                                The Bulgarians are mentioned in the footage i provided, its not something i made up. Why do you underestimate them?
                                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                                Comment

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