Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15659

    Originally posted by Sovius
    When we go back and erroneously associate this assumed ethnic identity with historical accounts of the 'Sklavenes', we lose sight of what was really happening during that period in time and that causes us to lose sight of who we truly are as people living in uniquely different cultures .
    You are putting words in my mouth Sovius.
    I am talking about nothing more than a language grouping which seems to offend you. Yet you freely use the term "Germanic". Even though if we delve into it, many Germanic tribes did not speak what is presently understood as a Germanic language.

    I also referred to English as a mongrel language not Germanic. Comprehend my dear protagonist? (apologies for the Latin, Greek & Olde English in that last sentence)

    Feel free to create a new language grouping for what is presently called the slavic language family. I will support you.

    I've been slav free all my life. What took you so long?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Sovius
      Member
      • Apr 2009
      • 241

      Risto,
      My apologies, that wasn't directed towards you, but to the chorus, per protagonistes, pardon my Latin, but not my ancient Greek theater class. I have no doubt you possess the ability to distinguish between a language classification and an ethnic identity, whether it be authentic or artificial. Itís those who chair the current political arena that either cannot or simply will not distinguish between the two and that in turn forms the foundation for the same phenomena in the social arena. My argument is not about how we see ourselves, but how others have been engineered to see us. Again, its not about what "we" think, its about what "they" think. Not what "we" see, but what "they" believe they see or would like others to believe they see. If the best thing going for Greece right now is ignorance, what then would be Macedonia's, if it was actually given a platform and not simply the Slav chair in the back? And by Greece I, of course, mean the Western European family of nations. Sadly, impressions outweigh reality. When connotations supersede denotations, the voice of meaning is lost. The word is on their leash.

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15659

        Not a problem Sovius, my thick skin matches my thick head!
        If we accept the Macedonian language is in a grouping of languages, surely one of the outcomes of this dialogue can be to choose a name for this grouping. What do you think better describes this grouping?
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          Associating Slavs with "Slaves" is just ridiculous. As if the Romans did not have other people in slavery. And isnt it amazing how a "Slave" group of people managed to spread their language through half of continental Europe, that must be a sign of their weakness.

          To try and outright deny and accuse a western conspiracy of certain historical facts is a sign of insecurity on your part. I have noticed that it is always a small group of Macedonians that feel this way about the Slav ethnicity and language grouping. You wont find any other South Slav country denying the obvious.

          If you dont like the term Slavic as a linguistic identifier then you might as well start learning Greek Sovius, you dont really have other options on the table.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15659

            Voltron, a historical slav ethnicity is meaningless. It is even more so in the present.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Voltron
              Banned
              • Jan 2011
              • 1362

              If it is Risto then its for the wrong reasons. I see it as a knee jerk reaction to us Greeks that use the Slav subject in the context of the name dispute. It cant be just a coincidence that this anti-Slav thesis started shortly after the name dispute started.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15659

                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                It cant be just a coincidence that this anti-Slav thesis started shortly after the name dispute started.
                It is completely a product of the Greek insistence on using Slav as a way of negating Macedonian's historical claim to Macedonia. You know that. It has been a silly approach because it has turned the spotlight back on Greece and the question marks about Greek continuity have never been so prominent as they have in the last 20 years.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Voltron
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1362

                  Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                  It is completely a product of the Greek insistence on using Slav as a way of negating Macedonian's historical claim to Macedonia. You know that.
                  Thats what Im saying. If we didnt start it chances are this Slav subject wouldnt even be an issue.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15659

                    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                    Thats what Im saying. If we didnt start it chances are this Slav subject wouldnt even be an issue.
                    I agree with you.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Sovius
                      Member
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 241

                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      If we accept the Macedonian language is in a grouping of languages, surely one of the outcomes of this dialogue can be to choose a name for this grouping. What do you think better describes this grouping?
                      Chronologically, 'sloveni' is the original term and all other terms are corruptions of this word form with the potential to distort perceived meaning. Using the English language 'Slovenian' word form allows us to create statements that provide for the separation of Macedonian separatists and Roman loyalists of Macedonian ethnicity, where the Sklavenes spoke a Slovenian language, as did loyalists, when they weren't busy formally communicating in Latin or Greek. The Macedonian Saints carried scriptures written in the tongue of the common people to Moravia. The modern Macedonian language is a Slovenian language that is classified as a Slavic language by Western European Anthropologists and historians, a term which often leads to confusing misinterpretations of early European history when used out of context. The Roman province of Achaea was invaded and occupied by a large number of Eastern Roman separatists and allied armies who are thought to have originated from North of the Danube river, who were referred to as Sklavenes by Eastern Roman loyalists. As you can see, I'm not really arguing for a drastic change in classification so much as an evolutionary step forward in the way we informally and formally communicate about the past and the present.

                      Now, you don't have to have to take one step forward, but I do, as the 'Slavic' word form can no longer be adequately used to explain events in European prehistory. If our ancestors weren't hanging out in the Swamps of Central Asia during the formation of European civilization, then using a term that originated during the 6th Century AD only leads to confusion when stepping back further in time. Anthropology is a science that seeks out a greater understanding of the past, not just the present moment. Because the 'Slav' term exists as a modern period generalization with derogatory connotations, it can't be used for truly meaningful communication in objective scholarship conducted in a language that originated in Western Europe. It, unfortunately, has to be de-Slavicized in order to account for the prehistoric co-existence of our ancestors among other populations in Europe and the formation of those other populations for the purposes of progressive research.

                      Comment

                      • Sovius
                        Member
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 241

                        Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                        Associating Slavs with "Slaves" is just ridiculous. As if the Romans did not have other people in slavery. And isnt it amazing how a "Slave" group of people managed to spread their language through half of continental Europe, that must be a sign of their weakness.

                        To try and outright deny and accuse a western conspiracy of certain historical facts is a sign of insecurity on your part. I have noticed that it is always a small group of Macedonians that feel this way about the Slav ethnicity and language grouping. You wont find any other South Slav country denying the obvious.

                        If you dont like the term Slavic as a linguistic identifier then you might as well start learning Greek Sovius, you dont really have other options on the table.
                        Voltron make big words.
                        Slavius no understand.

                        Comment

                        • momce
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 426

                          Originally posted by Delodephius View Post
                          I proposed the theory of preservation and spreading of the Proto-Slavic language by maintaining cultural and trade relations with specific groups of tribes inhabiting the banks of certain great European rivers like Danube, Sava, Morava, Prut, Dnieper, Dniester, Oder, Visla, Laba, Vardar and the coasts of the Aegean, Black, Adriatic, Ionic and Baltic seas with the centre being in the Danubian, Trypillian and Lusatian cultures.

                          Very interesting. Have you done any further work or research on this or published anything? etc

                          Comment

                          • momce
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 426

                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            I think I finally understand Greeks, based on dwelling upon some of the points above.
                            Because various Slavic groups shared words, the Greeks want to round us up in one grouping and call us Slavs.

                            In a similar way, if some Arab (or possibly a Turk) strings together a couple of Hellenic remnants of words ... then they are Greek too. Notwithstanding that every other aspect of their ethnic character tells a different story.

                            If we "filthy slavs" (according to Greeks) used this approach, then it would have to be said unequivocally that the "filthy slavs" left far more of an impact on Europe and civilisation than the Greeks could ever dream of. Would any Greek care to disagree?
                            yes its very warped....actually when greeks insult their neighbours they are actually insulting themselves since they are a mixed lot with a greek formal culture....a hideous mask modern greece...the beast made gains in places but in other places its project was a failure(Anatolia, Cyprus etc)

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              the greeks themselves weren't immune to slavicism.The greeks weren't so pure they were as much eexpoused and influenced as the rest of the people in other countries.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

                              • momce
                                Banned
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 426

                                which begs the question...what REALLY drove "greek irrendentism"? I think purely a power play.

                                Comment

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