Giorikas on World Peace & Harmony

[Risto the Great]

I am convinced that there are probably millions of people who call themselves Macedonians. The evidence is right in front of me, but that does not convince me that they actually are. Is that so difficult to understand? There are Greeks who believe in the Olympic gods but that does not convince me that they exist.
Apart from that, I am 100% sure that these people do not descend from ancient Macedonians. I find it also unlikely to believe that Macedonians stuck around for years after their empire went into decline, stayed pure of mind, race and blood, waiting to be merged with a Slav speaking new population, when then stayed again free until now of all non Macedonian blood. See, I'll be good and not call you even partially Slav.
Can you please, and this is a serious question, tell me what your interpretation is of your link with ancient Macedonians. (No disrespect intended)I read different versions and there seems to be no consensus between Macedonians themselves. As I mentioned earlier, there seems to be more consensus on anything else but Macedonians, mostly Greeks. Honestly, I think you are all developing a bit of an obsession here. We'll get to that maybe in another thread sometimes.

Ah the syndrome; please help me over this syndrome doctor. Why don't we just start by reading how you back up your claims. That would make a good start and make you more credible.

G, if 3 people say they are Macedonians, your potential to question their identity is valid. If millions do this, like you say, and like they do ... you really cannot question their right to do this.

You place this in the same category as people who still believe in the Olympic Gods. Surely you can see the difference. That statement is very demeaning to me. There are some people who believe in Jesus Christ, you might not be convinced. But aside from a little book and a widespread faith, many are yet to see Jesus in their daily activities. In complete contrast to this, Macedonians can be seen every day. A very low statement from you G.

I am not sure that modern Greeks descend from Ancient Hellenes. Just because the modern Greeks call themselves Hellenes and had the support from the Hellenophiles of the 19th century, does not mean they are entitled to wear the badge without acknowledging the 2000 years between now and then.

In complete contrast to the "Greek myth", the Macedonians are not in complete denial of the last 2000 years. Clearly the Slavic language is present in Macedonia. How it got there is subject to much debate. What a shame nobody knows what the ancient Macedonian language was. Whatever the answer is, it does not bother me because I have (as you agreed with) millions of people that support my claim for a Macedonian identity. Furthermore, when "Stavros from Florina" finds the missing manuscript underneath a fossilised goat that proves the ancient Macedonian language was in fact modern Greek, I would be equally convinced that my people who call themselves Macedonian are still the rightful heirs to the name as they are what became of the people that were in the region.

Now I know you would be more inclined to accept the argument of the imported Christians from Turkey and their claim to being called Macedonian. But surely you can see the humour in that if you remove your Hellenic coloured glasses!

[Giorikas]

Even if I addressed you, I meant it in general, but thanks anyway, you never called me anything else and I appreciate it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have made my choice, I have called you nothing but Greek here.

I have said my part. Get on with it.

[Giorikas]

I understand what you're saying. I said I followed the rules and that doesn't sound like I am very convinced about the things I call you but if you feel better about it I'll try not repeat that again. And yes I understand that that doesn't earn me much points in the popularity contest here, but hey, at least you know where I stand.

I can confirm you 100% that I am not Sportster. You'll have to take my word on that, I do not know him or had any correspondance with him, with anyone who frequents these boards actually. I liked reading his posts because he is someone who can not be classified so easily and he doesn't seem to give a shit about whatever anybody thinks about him.

As far as the mutual respect thing, you might find me a pain in the ass but but I try to treat everyone that treats me decently, decently back. Especially those who disagree strongly but are straight with me without dodging. I will disagree with them each and every time if needed though, those things are unrelated.

Another thing about that respect thing: I maintain that if you do not want Greeks to call you whatever they call you, and if you find it disrespectful etc, than you should not do the same back. If I could call you here whatever I wanted regardless of the consequences I would not call you the typical stuff like slavo-gypsies etc. You don't know that (what I would call you if I could), but again you'll have to take my word for that.
I would consider it uncivilized and uncalled for. I mentioned it before, either you all take the moral highground and you stick with it, or you are no better and those who want to keep calling us Tourkovlachs bla bla.
Don't think now before a lot of members get confused, that I am trying to win a popularity contest, it's a rational choice of how I want to behave. You make your choice.

Giorikas

[Soldier of Macedon]

Unfortunately for you Giorikas, you are under some sort of strange belief that the legitimacy of our nation remains solely in your understanding and your acceptance. Unfortunately (for you).

Psst, a little word of advice, your acceptance means jack shit. People who come here and try to convert the expectation of some decency and respect (by calling us by the name we self-identify with) into the notion of being 'forced' to call us by our name because that is what the forum rules (in the spirit of decency and respect) stipulate seem no better than some of your co-nationals who have been proven morons time and time again.

You think you have earned my respect, or anybody else for that matter, because you come here and call us by the name we self-identify with, only to follow up in every second sentence that you are somehow 'forced' to do this because you are following the rules? It is quite simple really, you really don't have to do it (have some decency and respect), you really don't need to be here if you can't (have some decency and respect).

We have no intention of banning you (we will see how far you want to push your game and if it resorts to the same level as your racist kin), but enough of this sympathy seeking garbage, because I am getting tired of reading "I follow your rules that is why I call you Macedonian", how about, "You respect that we self-identify as Greeks so I will respect that you guys self-identify as Macedonians" -- That would show some decency and respect. Are you capable of this?

And for the record, given your praise of Sportster on one of your very first posts, and your ceaseless repetitiveness, you really do appear like him. If it is you, no need to hide, you are free to ride your little tri-cycle here too.

[Giorikas]

Not reading my posts but you know them well enough that I sound like sportster Who are you kidding here, pal? Any way, you're banned for serious misuse of my name. Keep your friend Osiris company who is desperately trying to get my attention. Bye.

[Venom]

okay I SO can't be bothered reading your absolute bullshit posts.

Again I ask Mr Gorillas, what part of greece are you from?

SoM, now that you mention it you're right he sure does sound a lot like sportster.

[Giorikas]

So, if my assumption is correct about you (which it is), you are just another run-of-the-mill cookie cut athenian internet warrior with lightweight arguments, who has no connection with Macedonia or Macedonians. Concluding that you never had anything to do with Macedonia or the Macedonians, what is it that you think you can 'teach us' about ourselves? Don't forget, according to my assumption (which was proven to be true), your goal in life is to show us that we have no place in history and that we are newcomers onto the scene. It is you who needs to convince us of this absurdity, and not the other way around.

Your type cling to the notion of 'slav migration' mythology, yet when asked to provide a shred of evidence about it, you people are nowhere to be found. We are yet to see any evidence of this myth. Until then it's just a myth, and I don't believe it should be used as concrete evidence in arguments to support your rotten cause. Regardless if we are descendants of ancient Macedonians or not, we are Macedonians today, just like yesterday. You have no right to question our ethnicity when your people cannot decide on an answer to the question, 'what is a greek?' in the thread of the same name on this forum.

My advice, check your own family history before questioning someone elses.

You bore me. I'm sure that by now you have realized hat my writing style is unique (regardless of how badly written my messages are ). I am not somebody you have seen before on any other site because I never was, and even if I was, that would make me no worse then most of you, so save the internet warrior stuff for your compatriots who have been doing this for a very very long time. And by the looks of it, they'll be doing that for a long time to come. I'm not one of them. Want to do something useful?
Close the site for a weekend and take your buddies on a weekend to a mountain village in Macedonia with a few drinks and decide between yourselves, your Government and whoever needs to be involved on behalf of Macedonians what it is exactly that you want to convince me of because I keep hearing different stories from all sides. That's why most of the real internet warriors here will always be running around in circles. Easier to ban Greeks when they even hint that you might be Slavic then asking yourselves the questions why other Macedonians have openly said this. (as example)
If you start of with a shaky base then nothing good will come out building your case, or convincing others of this. Shaky in the sense that I hear serious contradictions and you can not agree.
It is perfectly clear to me that you prefer to speak about and prefer to pollute the internet with your version of the truth on Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbians and so on.
You see, in the end we're still good for something, we keep you 'united'.

Don't bother to thank me

[Dejan]

Your assumption is correct. I never hid it. I tried initially to find out whether it is enough to call you Macedonians or whether I would actually have to be convinced about that.
I presume (but let by all means an administrator tell me otherwise) that I am allowed to think whatever I want as long as I adress you all and your country etc in the way you want.

If I do not understand your argument, and if you want to, we can discuss and you can try to explain me things. If you don't care about that, then that's fine too. The normal thing would be to judge me by my own actions unless you prefer to not look further then a nationality. Some of my comments may remind you of other Greeks, sure, other might not. I prefer to disagree with you (in general) in a respectful way, and I hope to get that respect back, but I will react when needed.
Some of you have not been able to understand that trying to discuss things in such a way (as I indicated) does not mean that I will necessarily agree with you. I don't see what's so bad about not agreeing with you.

Like the making up rules here by different administrators, like asking ' what is a Macedonian ? ' and like the reason why this forum is created: ask 2 persons here and get 3 different answers. I thought this forum was created to convince people of your side of the story. Let's for the sake of argument call it the truth It is for this reason that I can not become a administrator (which I never wanted to be in the first place)

Take care,

Giorikas

So, if my assumption is correct about you (which it is), you are just another run-of-the-mill cookie cut athenian internet warrior with lightweight arguments, who has no connection with Macedonia or Macedonians. Concluding that you never had anything to do with Macedonia or the Macedonians, what is it that you think you can 'teach us' about ourselves? Don't forget, according to my assumption (which was proven to be true), your goal in life is to show us that we have no place in history and that we are newcomers onto the scene. It is you who needs to convince us of this absurdity, and not the other way around.

Your type cling to the notion of 'slav migration' mythology, yet when asked to provide a shred of evidence about it, you people are nowhere to be found. We are yet to see any evidence of this myth. Until then it's just a myth, and I don't believe it should be used as concrete evidence in arguments to support your rotten cause. Regardless if we are descendants of ancient Macedonians or not, we are Macedonians today, just like yesterday. You have no right to question our ethnicity when your people cannot decide on an answer to the question, 'what is a greek?' in the thread of the same name on this forum.

My advice, check your own family history before questioning someone elses.

[Giorikas]

I don't have to convince you, I know what I am, and am what I am, a Macedonian.

And contrary to what you think about the threads about Greece here, I think they are quite healthy as they expose much of the swiss cheese theories about Greece which go unquestioned by others when propagated by Greeks.

You like the ride so far? Stick around, you may learn something about yourself and why you think within such a subjective mindframe.

Look SOM,

I am sure that you really believe it, I am convinced that there are people on our side and your side of the border, or in Australia for all I care who identify themselves as Macedonian.
I have seen examples on these fora that convince me of that that those are actually living on our side of the border. Speak and write Greek and everything but tell a different story that they don't feel Greek. Those are for me not greek in their contiousness. I can accept that. They have a Greek passport but feel differently, for all I know Macedonian.
Now whether or not I believe myself that they are Macedonian, especially in the way some of you claim you are (again, no consensus between yourselves) is another story. Then there are differences on the numbers of those who feel Macedonian, but Risto will clear that soon when he will present me not only with figures, but he will prove that the numbers have gone down with a factor 10 compared to other Balkan countries.

I find your theories on Greeks at most a annoying, and intended to be insulting, but the end of the day, it doesn't really bother me that much since I am confortable enough with what I am as a Greek. I guess that if it makes you feel better about yourselves that by all means go on until eternity repeating your broken records that we are Tourkovlachs etc, and you are ancient Macedonians. I know that neither is the case. It makes all those look stupid as far as I'm concerned.

I do not claim pureness of race for myself or Greeks, and knowing that practically no people can call themselves pure of race, (ethnically as the trendy word here seems to be) it doesn't bother me. We are no different then all the others. Greeks have had an awful lot of others on their territory so it would not be possible not to mix. (even if I believe that 'de facto' Greeks influenced more Turks then the other way around)
Sorry to disappoint you, but neither have I seen or heard leading Greek politician or government official claim this (might have missed one but this is certainly not mainstram thinking), but please all provide me with some evidence that I am wrong if you feel that that would help. I guess that will not be the case otherwise you'd surely have paraded the evidence all over your fora.

Take care

Giorikas

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't have to convince you, I know what I am, and am what I am, a Macedonian.

And contrary to what you think about the threads about Greece here, I think they are quite healthy as they expose much of the swiss cheese theories about Greece which go unquestioned by others when propagated by Greeks.

You like the ride so far? Stick around, you may learn something about yourself and why you think within such a subjective mindframe.

[osiris]

you dont answer my posts because you are afraid to confront the truth, so typical of most of our neo greeks on this forum.

[Giorikas]

Soldier Of Macedon,

For your own good, I think you should let the subject Greece rest a bit, it becomes unhealthy. Your reactions become unhealty, throwing around accusations like that. How much more abusive threads do you want to open on the subject, and how will it help you to achieve your goal? I answered Osiris once, he reacted exacly as I predicted and I have 'banned' him . I will not react to his posts because I find him irrelevant. See, I can do the same.

Fine, don't convince me. As you wish, and fine, don't do anything with my suggestion on the moderators. We past that, let's move on.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If you try to take your head out of that imaginary 4,000 years of Hellenic arse you may realise what the definition of a Macedonian is.

Why do we have to convince you? And how on earth do you reconcile that denial of existence with the suggestion that we should have one of you being a moderator here?

Are you getting paid my Greek friend? What do they give you, some Souvlakia a night to jump on the net and spin your garbage?

What is a Greek? Osiris opened a thread, go and address it and answer the questions of your own origins rather than giving us the same tired old renditions about ours.

[Giorikas]

Is this difficult for you?


You are not convinced this is difficult for you? Is that actually what you were trying to say or is it the English problem again?

It is easy. Millions of us self identify as Macedonians and you are not convinced. It is not my job to convince you. As a Greek, it apparently is your job to remain belligerent and unable to acknowledge a people's right to self determination. This is very common amongst your people Giorikas. Let me know if I can help you get over this syndrome.

I am convinced that there are probably millions of people who call themselves Macedonians. The evidence is right in front of me, but that does not convince me that they actually are. Is that so difficult to understand? There are Greeks who believe in the Olympic gods but that does not convince me that they exist.
Apart from that, I am 100% sure that these people do not descend from ancient Macedonians. I find it also unlikely to believe that Macedonians stuck around for years after their empire went into decline, stayed pure of mind, race and blood, waiting to be merged with a Slav speaking new population, when then stayed again free until now of all non Macedonian blood. See, I'll be good and not call you even partially Slav.
Can you please, and this is a serious question, tell me what your interpretation is of your link with ancient Macedonians. (No disrespect intended)I read different versions and there seems to be no consensus between Macedonians themselves. As I mentioned earlier, there seems to be more consensus on anything else but Macedonians, mostly Greeks. Honestly, I think you are all developing a bit of an obsession here. We'll get to that maybe in another thread sometimes.

Ah the syndrome; please help me over this syndrome doctor. Why don't we just start by reading how you back up your claims. That would make a good start and make you more credible.