The sound of ancient languages

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  • TerraNova
    replied
    Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
    Compared to Modern Greek, how much is Classical Greek different? I know some of you speak Greek, so I was just wondering what's your lay opinion about it compared to the ancient version. How much can you understand and what about the accent?

    YouTube - The Iliad XXIV
    Well ,it is not clear how did Homeric Greek sound.

    This is more or less the "erasmian" accent as it was proposed before some centuries.
    More accurately,erasmian performed by a robot.

    I personally think that the accent for vowels was different (otherwise there would be one symbol for "i" (like in"it") and not 5 as in modern Greek ι,η,ει,οι,υ)
    For the consonants i can't see why "δ"/"Δ" was "d" and not "th".

    Anyway,that's just a small note-it's a huge issue for sure.

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  • TerraNova
    replied
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    For what its worth, I do not feel that it is a fake language. It WAS real 2000 years ago.
    But it did not represent a natural development path due to being imposed on the various races of modern Greece 180 years ago. Dimko's meaning of "fake" refers to this imposition and the fact that it was a historical language that nobody spoke. Fair call IMO.
    Now consider what a nonsense you have already told.
    The accent have changed throughout the last 30 centuries ,and despite that nobody was talking Greek.

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  • Delodephius
    replied
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    Fake does not make a great leap from artificial.
    Sorry, but you'll have to write a definition of it. I tried searching Google for "fake language" but only thing I got was about the fake way of speaking, like when someone is trying to speak like someone else.

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  • osiris
    replied
    here is the sound of ancient greek from homeric to platonic.

    Homer, Ancient Greek pronunciation, Classical Greek, epos, epic, hexameter, greek, Iliad, Troy, Trojan war, Plato, Symposion, Agamemnon, Aischylos, Ancient Greek


    can anyone here see a continuity to modern greek i certainly cant.
    Last edited by osiris; 02-15-2009, 05:25 AM.

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  • Risto the Great
    replied
    Of course there never was an old Greek State Dimko.

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  • Dimko-piperkata
    replied
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    I think my first sentence said "I do not feel it is a fake language". However, I do feel it WAS at the creation of the modern Greek State.
    ...
    risto, was there ever a old greek state

    мораме некојпат да се научиме вистината да ја пишиме а не понатамy лагите да ги шириме.

    first greek state EVER = 1832 = first greek language (nothing to to with ANY language spoken in the past) = adopting the macedonian KOINE = to snatch macedonian heritage

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  • osiris
    replied
    why is it called byzantine, is it a credible term to use for a culture who used something else as the name for their civilisation, it distorts confuses and manipulate a version of false reality, and influences everything, methodology, purpose, percepetion ..

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  • Risto the Great
    replied
    Fake does not make a great leap from artificial.

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  • Delodephius
    replied
    I still don't get what "fake language" is suppose to mean? There are various types of language: natural, artificial (constructed, planed), dead, classical, auxiliary, musical, artistic, engineering, etc. but "fake"? I can't imagine it.

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  • Spartan
    replied
    I agree with your assesment SoM, Ristos as well(except the "creation part, sorry brother )
    Thank-you for the answers, I always wanted to know you guys official view point on this subject.
    Katharevousa(means 'clean'), from what I have read, was Greek , minus all the loanwords the language had aquired over the centuries. If this is the case, I can see why it was dropped for the Dimotiki.
    Our church however still uses katharevousa, and I believe official legal documents as well.

    I can pick up a story recorded in Macedonia by the Miladinov brothers during the 1860's and read and understand it in full with little difficulty, that is continuity in language over the last 150 years.
    Im ok in Greek 150 yrs old too
    Inside thing betweem me and SoM people, lol <cough> Melas<cough> lol
    Last edited by Spartan; 02-14-2009, 09:14 PM.

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    In the literary sense there was continuity in the Greek language, there can be no disputing that, but the particulars aren't so straight forward. Risto is correct, experts writing on the matter of Katharevousa call it an artificial language, there was no continuity there, it is like having the Italians use ancient Latin for official use. After 150 years of the Katharevousa-Demotiki game much changes have impacted the Greek language, words that were never used are now, words that were used have been abolished.

    I can pick up a story recorded in Macedonia by the Miladinov brothers during the 1860's and read and understand it in full with little difficulty, that is continuity in language over the last 150 years.

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  • Spartan
    replied
    Thank you for the answer Risto
    However, I must disagree with the term "creation" as you use it in this context.

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  • Risto the Great
    replied
    Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
    What you are saying Risto makes no sense. How can an "imposed" language be "fake"? How can any language be "fake"? Languages are not antique vases.
    I think my first sentence said "I do not feel it is a fake language". However, I do feel it WAS at the creation of the modern Greek State.

    The Greek language adopted at the creation of the modern Greek State was not a reflection of the surrounding languages. Not even a "best of" Greek languages, it was merely an old language that had enough text to support a re-introduction and had a specific agenda. Nobody spoke it at the time. Reports existed of Grandparents not understanding their Grandchildren.

    I gave you my reason and context as to why it could be construed as fake. And you have taken a stance that leaves you as the flag bearer for all languages. It is indeed noble, but almost like supporting Esperanto.

    I thoroughly accept that if the Japanese adopted Attic Greek as their new language, that it would be very much a real language.

    Spartan, the codification of the modern Greek language stopped in 1976 with the adoption of Demotiki. When they tried Katharevousa at the formation of the Greek State, little thought was given to the Greek dialects. The language was full of hypercorrections and false archaisms. Linguists call it artificial. What a pity Yannis Vilaras' (of Epirus) "Romaic Grammar" never gathered momentum. In contrast, it WAS based on dialects.

    You had to wait another 50 years before the work of Psicharis began to filter through and assist in the creation of the modern language you know today.

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  • Spartan
    replied
    Thanks for the answer Slovak
    You can answer my other ones as well, if you dont mind of course.
    Also, what is your opinion on the continuation of the Greek language?

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  • Delodephius
    replied
    You mean this one:
    For example, each stage of the Greek language has a clear connection to the previous, and next stage of the language.
    If this is true, surely it could not have been faked, could it?
    No, it could not. Since a language cannot be faked.
    You could make a misrepresentation of a language, but that's only external, meaning you could call your language Ancient Greek and say it was just like the real Ancient Greek but it would still be a different language. A language is not a material object that you can create a copy of and call it the original.

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