Macedonia's Name at the UN

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8534

    Macedonia's Name at the UN

    An old and tired one, but its raising its ugly head on Facebook...

    While it has already been dealt with here and across the spectrum ad nausea, it seems that the tired old idea that Macedonia needs to go through some special process in order to change its name from FYROM to Macedonia at the United Nations is doing the rounds again.

    Recently, the idea that Macedonia should withdraw from the UN and then reapply to the General Assembly seeking admittance as Macedonia has popped up again. At face value, it seems fairly harmless. But as usual, thinking it through for a few minutes shows how utterly flawed it really is.

    Here are a few points to remember:

    1. The United Nations is not some omniscient authority over the world. It’s simply an organisation made up of SOVEREIGN states, which in turn are representative of a sovereign body of citizens. Each state, being sovereign and in accordance with the UN’s own Charter is capable of leaving the organisation, accepting or not accepting its jurisdiction over ‘legal’ matters (through the ICJ) and basically doing as it pleases so long as they do not violate ‘rules’ that it agreed to when joining the organisation. And in the final analysis, even if it does break the ‘rules’, history has shown that there really are no consequences of substance.

    2. While the UN may have violated its own Charter in accepting Macedonia as a member under the FYROM terminology (and while that was an act of high treason on the part of the Macedonian Government), Macedonia (as a sovereign member state) can simply follow logic (as any other group or individual who is a member of an organisation is able to) and undertake the standard practice of simply informing the UN that it will now be called ‘Macedonia’ through a letter. For example, see:

    http://unterm.un.org/DGAACS/unterm.n...6?OpenDocument and

    http://unterm.un.org/DGAACS/unterm.n...2?OpenDocument

    There is no need to invent special procedures that would only apply to Macedonia and have no basis in the UN’s Charter or procedural precedence to rectify the problem.

    3. Actually reapplying to the General Assembly to re-join the UN under the name ‘Macedonia’ is in fact asking all 200 or so members to VOTE on whether we can use our own name. For those individuals on whom it is lost, the problem with this is that Macedonia would be further destroying its own freedom by begging/asking permission from not only Greece, but nearly every country in the world to let it use its name. That is such a perversion of our freedom, sovereignty and right to self-determination (all basically meaning the same thing) that not being able to understand this raises, I think, serious questions about ‘soundness of mind’ for the individuals in question.

    4. The fact that no Macedonian Government to date has done this demonstrates their utter incompetence and egotistical subservience to their own perceived ‘big brothers’ within the ‘international community’ for petty personal privileges such as ‘pats on the back’ and dinner invitations at the expense of the Macedonian people, past, present and future.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15661

    #2
    And yet so many Macedonians believe it to be a valid strategy. I believe it stems from a slave mentality and inferiority complex.

    Rather than being empowered, they think they need to be sneaky to keep up with the clevererer nations. It is just so "peasant".
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Phoenix
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 4671

      #3
      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      An old and tired one, but its raising its ugly head on Facebook...
      Is fb really that credible...are you telling me that the conversations have elevated from talking about people (or should that be 'peeps' and should that be followed by "my bad"?) and the frequency (or otherwise) of their bowel movements, to matters of state sovereignty...well, fark me.

      Comment

      • Gocka
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2012
        • 2306

        #4
        I agree with both Tom and RTG. This to me looks like another attempt to have others vote on our name. As Tom put it, if you are begging/asking for permission it implies that permission is needed. We do not need permission to self determine as Macedonia, that is our god given right to call ourselves what we wish. Also to the less informed mindless masses, when you are perceived as asking for permission it creates the perception that what you are asking for may or may not be acceptable. As RTG put it, it stems from an inferiority complex which I have also touched on in other threads. Macedonians simply believe that their wishes and their words mean nothing and that we must some how play the game in order to carve out a little win, when in fact we must do nothing and speak in a tone and manner that shows that we know we are right and that we seek no affirmation or permission from anyone. If you are confident and adamant many people would not even question the validity of your demands.

        Time to fucking grow a pair I'm getting sick of watching grown men, decedents of one of the most manly and powerful civilizations to have walked the earth, grovel and wine like a bunch of sick dogs. Grow a pair and start acting like fucking men. Stop begging and start demanding.

        Nekogas mi idat da e mavnam glava od zemi,tolku so me nerviret fyromci. Ubo velit eden drugar moj od Ohrid, "nemat veke Makedonci, nie sme Fyromci"

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8534

          #5
          Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
          Is fb really that credible...are you telling me that the conversations have elevated from talking about people (or should that be 'peeps' and should that be followed by "my bad"?) and the frequency (or otherwise) of their bowel movements, to matters of state sovereignty...well, fark me.
          Its not about credibility, its about promotion. Most Macedonian organisations are on there these days promoting their agenda's, good or bad. There are probably hundreds of thousands of Macedonians on there worldwide, so it offers a mass audience.

          The particular discussion I was referring to took place on Jason Miko's profile, so it would have had a large audience seeing as he's got a strong (not really sure why) following among Macedonians.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Phoenix
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 4671

            #6
            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
            ...The particular discussion I was referring to took place on Jason Miko's profile, so it would have had a large audience seeing as he's got a strong (not really sure why) following among Macedonians.
            So is Miko himself pushing this idea of 'reapplication' or was the discussion driven by others less informed or with different (anti-Macedonian) agendas...?

            Comment

            • Vangelovski
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 8534

              #7
              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
              So is Miko himself pushing this idea of 'reapplication' or was the discussion driven by others less informed or with different (anti-Macedonian) agendas...?
              Miko wasn't involved in the discussion at all - it grew out of a different topic. Its some clowns (or maybe just one guy from what I can tell) calling themselves the "Committee for Democratising the Republic of Macedonia" from Canada.
              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15661

                #8
                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                Miko wasn't involved in the discussion at all - it grew out of a different topic. Its some clowns (or maybe just one guy from what I can tell) calling themselves the "Committee for Democratising the Republic of Macedonia" from Canada.
                People like that probably want Macedonia to be renamed as Republic of Democratised Macedonia
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8534

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                  I agree with both Tom and RTG. This to me looks like another attempt to have others vote on our name. As Tom put it, if you are begging/asking for permission it implies that permission is needed. We do not need permission to self determine as Macedonia, that is our god given right to call ourselves what we wish. Also to the less informed mindless masses, when you are perceived as asking for permission it creates the perception that what you are asking for may or may not be acceptable. As RTG put it, it stems from an inferiority complex which I have also touched on in other threads. Macedonians simply believe that their wishes and their words mean nothing and that we must some how play the game in order to carve out a little win, when in fact we must do nothing and speak in a tone and manner that shows that we know we are right and that we seek no affirmation or permission from anyone. If you are confident and adamant many people would not even question the validity of your demands.

                  Time to fucking grow a pair I'm getting sick of watching grown men, decedents of one of the most manly and powerful civilizations to have walked the earth, grovel and wine like a bunch of sick dogs. Grow a pair and start acting like fucking men. Stop begging and start demanding.

                  Nekogas mi idat da e mavnam glava od zemi,tolku so me nerviret fyromci. Ubo velit eden drugar moj od Ohrid, "nemat veke Makedonci, nie sme Fyromci"
                  Gocka,

                  You raise a very good point in that seeking permission to be called Macedonia implies that permission is actually needed and as such provides legitimacy to Greece's objections to our name. Rather than focusing on the fact that we have an inalienable right to identify and name ourselves as we please, such people move into perverse logic that fallaciously concludes that we have no right, but are merely seeking some form of privilege.

                  Where a right does not exist, what is sought is merely an entitlement or a privilege, and as such, can be denied. This is the only game that these fools are playing.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

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