Once were warriors

[Phoenix]

I would like to encourage Admin to change the avatar of this newly arrived shiptar.

I find his avatar grossly offensive and if we're serious about criticizing the current Macedonian flag, I'll be fucked if Im going to put up with this clowns swiss flag drapped over geographical Macedonia as his avatar

[Phoenix]

Are you sure you are not Albanians Helvetia?
Macedonia did not win any war in 2001.

a shiptar no doubt about it...

only a shiptar wants the swiss model for Macedonia

[Phoenix]

No, of course not, I fly the only Macedonian flag.

I was talking about how war isn't an opinion, that's a big difference from encouraging it.

Well, I think we are doing pretty decent right now. You might have a different perspective, obviously a more negative one. But I am a pragmatist and an optimist.

You're kidding yourself...you're a fuckin' idiot mate.

[Phoenix]

Well, we did manage to prevent the Albanians from breaking off and taking Western Macedonia with them. That, in my eyes, is a victory for us since we prevented their primary objective. We managed to turn the NATO against them as well, to compare, the NATO bombed the Serbs for trying to kick out the Albanians. That didn't happen, the NATO helped us clean up the Albanians, especially in that Essential Harvest operation. I know some of us consider it a defeat because we signed the Framework but we are still a young nation. Albanians will be eventually assimilated and all the rights they got with the Ohrid Framework won't really matter in the next 50 years since they'll be identifying as Macedonian by then.

OMG...is this guy for real...????

[Risto the Great]

They might be without names but I think we all know what they represent and that is the important part.

Is that you FYROM?

[Vangelovski]

I understand where you're coming from, and unfortunately, this is something we must accept for now. When we've managed to turn our country into a Western equivalent of Switzerland or close then we can think about abolishing the Framework and ensure the Albanians are assimilated. But right now? We're just a poor country with barely any power. If we tried to take matters into our own hands, we would be immediately crushed by the NATO just as they crushed the Serbs when they tried to take on Kosovo problems by their own.

Helvetia, you remind me of someone who didn't last here very long. I don't expect you to last much longer than he did.

[julie]

No, of course not, I fly the only Macedonian flag.

I was talking about how war isn't the opinion, that's a big difference from encouraging it.

Well, I think we are doing pretty decent right now. You might have a different perspective, obviously a more negative one. But I am a pragmatist and an optimist.

Your positive acceptance is passive acceptance of the erosion of Macedonian sovereignty
My negative perspective is Macedonian sovereignty and Macedonia for the Macedonians

May I ask you why you keep bringing up WAR?
War is not in my thought process. peaceful demonstration is not war

[Helvetia]

Macedonia square is very beautiful
I enjoyed seeing all the leaders and wonderful Macedonians in the square.
I cried when I saw "warrior on a horse" , an awesome statue, without a name. I cried because he had no name . Symbols wiped off soldiers shields.

How is the Skopje 2014 project contributing to national sovereignty??

Incidentally ...Macedonia fallen hard and fast.....using YOUR words

They might be without names but I think we all know what they represent and that is the important part.

[Helvetia]

1. Do you fly the ventilator?
2...rash actions - you speak of war
I speak of a moral revolution, changing peoples enslaved mindsets, and mediocre acceptance, of peaceful protest and demonstration

No, of course not, I fly the only Macedonian flag.

I was talking about how war isn't an opinion, that's a big difference from encouraging it.

Well, I think we are doing pretty decent right now. You might have a different perspective, obviously a more negative one. But I am a pragmatist and an optimist.

[julie]

Skopje 2014 project begs to differ...

Macedonia square is very beautiful
I enjoyed seeing all the leaders and wonderful Macedonians in the square.
I cried when I saw "warrior on a horse" , an awesome statue, without a name. I cried because he had no name . Symbols wiped off soldiers shields.

How is the Skopje 2014 project contributing to national sovereignty??

Incidentally ...Macedonia fallen hard and fast.....using YOUR words

[julie]

Macedonia has done a lot in regard to economic development from 1991 to today. Skopje is not the same city as it was 20 years ago. We were the poorest Yugoslav republic, much fault due to the centuries of Ottoman occupation and various ravages of war that ruined our land. Northern Yugoslav countries like Slovenia were more fortunate to be occupied by an advanced European country, Austria.

I agree with you about the concessions like the changing of our flag, the Framework, they were unacceptable but we'll just have to accept them for NOW until we are in a position to tell other people no, we can't do that, we won't accept it. But right now? We need to develop our country, our economy, to be on par with Slovenia or Switzerland. Meanwhile we can just maintain the status quo that is the best for us for now. That's what I think, if you don't agree with me and would rather rash actions then that's really up to you.

1. Do you fly the ventilator?
2...rash actions - you speak of war
I speak of a moral revolution, changing peoples enslaved mindsets, and mediocre acceptance, of peaceful protest and demonstration

[Helvetia]

Macedonia has fallen hard and fast. Question is, does anyone in Macedonia see that?

Skopje 2014 project begs to differ...

[Helvetia]

the difference between Macedonian sovereignty and Albanian domination over Macedonia, you know , that country that supposedly is the birthplace of Macedonians, and a country for Macedonians

Macedonia has done a lot in regard to economic development from 1991 to today. Skopje is not the same city as it was 20 years ago. We were the poorest Yugoslav republic, much fault due to the centuries of Ottoman occupation and various ravages of war that ruined our land. Northern Yugoslav countries like Slovenia were more fortunate to be occupied by an advanced European country, Austria.

I agree with you about the concessions like the changing of our flag, the Framework, they were unacceptable but we'll just have to accept them for NOW until we are in a position to tell other people no, we can't do that, we won't accept it. But right now? We need to develop our country, our economy, to be on par with Slovenia or Switzerland. Meanwhile we can just maintain the status quo that is the best for us for now. That's what I think, if you don't agree with me and would rather rash actions then that's really up to you.

[julie]

You can't have things done overnight. They are worked towards over years, over time and then they are finished with best possible results. That's just how things works. If we try to rise too fast, do things too quickly then we will fall hard and fast.

Macedonia has fallen hard and fast. Question is, does anyone in Macedonia see that?

[julie]

Whether we like it or not, the EU and NATO both are prestigious international organisations.

I beg to differ


If we choose to isolate ourselves, it will not be for the better. If we pass anti-Albanian policies, it will only isolate us and destroy all the progress we've made in the last 20 years.

What progress? And who said anything about passing anti-ALbanian policies?

What happened to Serbia will happen to Macedonia. If not wanting Macedonia to have similar fate to Serbia's then I guess I do have an agenda...

I don't believe that Macedonia will be a Muslim country in just ten years. We've been here for centuries, survived 500 years of Ottoman occupation, what's another 10 years?

the difference between Macedonian sovereignty and Albanian domination over Macedonia, you know , that country that supposedly is the birthplace of Macedonians, and a country for Macedonians