Albanianization in Macedonia

[Niko777]

NO Church will be built on the Skopje Kale

Instead, there will be three museums:

Museum of Prehistory
Museum of the Byzantine Empire
Museum of the Ottoman Empire

The Albanians are already calling the first museum to be named "Museum of the Dardanian Era"

[Onur]

Macedonia would have been converted all the Ottoman era mosques to museums already, just like we did in Turkey in 1930s for the churches. With this way, you protect centuries old buildings and it also brings benefit to the country`s tourism. In Turkey, all the formerly churches which has been converted to a mosque in Ottoman era became museums in 1930s, like Hagia Sophia.

This is already the best way to protect these buildings. A ~500 year old building is too precious to serve the public every day without any restriction. Also, we prevented stupid conflicts too. I mean if Turkey would allow Hagia Sophia to serve as a church again, then muslim extremists would shout around but if it would be a mosque, then christians would shout. Some Greeks tries to secretly perform a ritual inside every year by hiding some candles inside their pockets and some muslims tries to pray in it as a provocation but authorities doesn't allow that.

Also, no tourists could have properly see these buildings if they would be church or mosque. If i had an authority, i would convert Mimar Sinan`s blue mosque at front of Hagia Sophia as a museum too. One time i tried to see it in Istanbul but there was a prayer inside when i was there and i couldn't see inside of it. It`s stupid to allow a magnificent 600 year old building serving in daily use.


Btw Niko, wth is Dardanian era in Skopje and whats go to the with that particular kale???

[Niko777]

The Dardanians were an Illyrian tribe and the Albanian extremists believe Skopje was the center of ancient Illyrian culture blah blah blah, despite the fact that there has been no Illyrian artifact ever found on Skopje's Kale, and this has been confirmed by both Macedonian and Albanian archeologists.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Skopje was one hub of Thraco-Illyrian interaction and culture, and was an important centre during its time - around 2,000 years ago. But that has nothing to do with Albanians who only came to the area relatively recently.

[TrueMacedonian]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/macedonia-soothes-albanians-over-hague-cases-14072011/

Macedonia Soothes Albanians Over Hague Cases
July 14, 2011
By Sinisa Jakov Marusic and Sase Dimovski

Talks between Gruevski’s VMRO-DPMNE party and its ethnic Albanian partner, the Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, appear to be over on a new government.

Talks began after both parties won the June 5 elections in their respective ethnic blocs.

Sources from both parties told Balkan Insight that an agreement on a new government was speedy after VMRO-DPMNE accepted three key DUI demands concerning the Albanian community.

VMRO-DPMNE reportedly agreed to dump plans to re-examine four war crimes cases that the International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia, ICTY, had returned to Macedonia in 2008.

The cases involve alleged crimes committed by ethnic Albanian guerrillas, including current DUI officials, during the 2001 armed conflict in the country.

Many feared that reviving the cases before the Macedonia’s domestic courts would rekindle the ethnic disputes of the past.

Since the four cases were returned from the Hague, only one case of alleged torture perpetrated against construction workers has reached the courts, but it has been repeatedly postponed.

A senior official from the Macedonian prosecution recently told Balkan Insight under condition of anonymity that following the return of the Hague cases he received political instructions to “manage the cases”, meaning stall proceedings in the courts.

DUI and VMRO-DPMNE officials brief that these cases will now lapse under a general amnesty law for former insurgents that was adopted shortly after the conflict ended.

In 2001 Macedonia saw an armed conflict between Albanian insurgents and the security forces. The clashes ended with the signing of the Ohrid peace accord that guaranteed Albanians more rights. The insurgency leaders then formed the DUI.

Party sources say the two winning parties have agreed that families of former Albanian insurgents who were injured or killed during the 2001 conflict will receive state pensions. The DUI had previously insisted on state pensions for all former insurgents, whether or not they were injured.

The third DUI demand that Gruevski has reportedly accepted concerns language. Ethnic Albanian MPs and ministers want the right to use their native language in parliament.

Currently, Albanian can be used in parliament, but with restrictions. For example, a legislator may not use Albanian when presiding over a parliamentary commission, but its use is permissible during plenary sessions.

Gruevski’s new ministerial line-up is still a mystery. But some new faces are anticipated. It is also expected that the DUI will have more ministers than it did in the last government.

The third government led by Gruevski will most probably be adopted without hitches, as his party and the DUI control over 70 of the 123 seats in parliament. Gruevski has been in power since 2006.

[George S.]

Gruevski is playing with fire giving macedonian soveregnity like it was a lolie.That means macedonian rights to their country are negated.

[Niko777]

Vangelovski, you probably know more about the Ohrid FA then anyone else here, could you please explain to us how the new changes in the law concerning languages and flags differ from what is in the FA? For example, there are media reports now about minority languages becoming official in municipalities where a minority makes up 20% of the population (I thought that was already the law). Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks

[Soldier of Macedon]

Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks

So long as it is smaller in size, apparently. I think the guys in the below picture got the ratio wrong:




Anybody would think that this is in Albania.

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski, you probably know more about the Ohrid FA then anyone else here, could you please explain to us how the new changes in the law concerning languages and flags differ from what is in the FA? For example, there are media reports now about minority languages becoming official in municipalities where a minority makes up 20% of the population (I thought that was already the law). Also there are reports about new flag law, that a minority can display their flag only in areas where they are 50%+ (Was it 20% up to now?). -Thanks

Hi Niko777,

What the media is reported was already implemented years ago. I'm not sure why they are reporting these existing laws "new" changes - maybe someone finally read the FA and woke up to what we have been talking about for 10 years now and thinks its all new because he read it for the first time

In 2007, the constitutional court made an order to rescind some of the clauses in the flag usage law, though it was contradictory and basically incoherent (and incomplete). Besides that, their decision was contrary to the FA, so I'm not sure what the legal standing of it actually is...and from what I can gather, noone else is either.

[George S.]

does anyone know how the current census went as the albanians were desperately trying to wrought it to show there are more albanians .even saying turks were albanians.It would be interesting. to know the real breakdown.Why do we panderoing to them they are a minority.These people are not welcomed in their own country as they were thrown out after the 2ndworld war by the communists.So these albanians have a short/long term look to divide up macedonia for themselves.They don't respect us or support us in any way look at the sweetheart deals done that undermines our sovereignity to exist as citizens in our own country.Can this sort of thing happen in the west yes it can if the idiotic politicians let them do it.Macedonia is destined probably half of it to secede to the albanians & don't they know it.

[Droog]

So long as it is smaller in size, apparently. I think the guys in the below picture got the ratio wrong:

I think that you mean Rufi Osmani now a parliamentary leader.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not sure what you're on about. But is this the parliamentary leader you're referring to:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=105514#post105514

On May 27 (1997), an estimated 20,000 ethnic Albanians, led by Osmani, held a large rally in central Gostivar, where they rehoisted the Albanian and Turkish flags and chanted nationalistic slogans..........

So much for the sovereignty of Macedonia. Do you think that ethnic Albanians were justified in raising arms against the Macedonian state? Do you agree with what they did? Elaborate if you wish, but give us a simple 'yes' or 'no' to begin with. I am tired of people like yourself dancing around this question each time it is asked.

By the way, I am STILL waiting for you to corroborate that garbage about Temelko and other Macedonian leaders in Albania declaring by 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to produce the goods soon, or acknowledge that you lied. Don't think you will be allowed to leave that topic without conclusion, I expect to see an answer.

[Droog]

Not sure what you're on about. But is this the parliamentary leader you're referring to:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=105514#post105514

So much for the sovereignty of Macedonia. Do you think that ethnic Albanians were justified in raising arms against the Macedonian state? Do you agree with what they did? Elaborate if you wish, but give us a simple 'yes' or 'no' to begin with. I am tired of people like yourself dancing around this question each time it is asked.

By the way, I am STILL waiting for you to corroborate that garbage about Temelko and other Macedonian leaders in Albania declaring by 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to produce the goods soon, or acknowledge that you lied. Don't think you will be allowed to leave that topic without conclusion, I expect to see an answer.

Well, the recent local elections clearly prove what I told you about the identity of the people in Liqenas. The Greek party managed to elect one municipal counsellor in Liqenas so that speaks volumes and proves what I told you about the identity of the people in that area.

I'm not going to answer with a yes or no to your simplistic and moralistic question. Nobody has any "right" to do anything and no action is justified. If you have the resources and the will to do something, then you just do it. Get over your notion that there's anything at all that's "justified" or "not justified".

The Albanians in Macedonian considered themselves opressed, they acted and there were certain results stemming from their actions. That's it. There's nothing right or wrong about that. Victimization is getting old (even for the Balkans).

[Soldier of Macedon]

I'm not going to answer with a yes or no to your simplistic and moralistic question. Nobody has any "right" to do anything and no action is justified. If you have the resources and the will to do something, then you just do it. Get over your notion that there's anything at all that's "justified" or "not justified".

What sort of garbage ambiguity was that? Indeed, the victimisation is getting really old and boring, especially when the so-called 'victims' can't even justify their actions. Let me put it to you in another way - do you agree with what the NLA did in terms of raising arms against the state? It's a simple question, answer it.

The Albanians in Macedonian considered themselves opressed...........

How were they oppressed?

Droog - this will be the final time I will ask you to corroborate your allegation regarding Macedonian leaders like Temelko declaring 4 different ethnicities. I would advise you to follow up conclusively and not bother coming back here until you do.

[Pelister]

One simple way of stopping the Albanianisation of these regions is to build up Macedonian centres.

One way to nullify the effects of the Framework Agreement, is to turn thinly populated areas (dominated by Albanians), into populated areas (dominated by Macedonians). Not hard to do and not as expensive as one might think.

The village of Radusha, was a key strategic village that the Albanians were not able to take. This village is isolated, but it is full of very patriotic Macedonians. It is situated near the border. It has about 210 houses, all inhabited by Macedonians. Why doesn't the Macedonian government build it up. If it added about 750 new homes (at a cost of about 75 million Euro), the small village would become a large Macedonian Christian village. The two nearest villages, Dvorce has about 110 homes, and Orashje, about 250 homes. Dolno Orashje, has about 70 homes. If a patriot added another 750 homes to (Dvorce), and another 750 to Orashje, this key area would be dominated entirely by a Macedonian Christian demographic. There are a number of historic Macedonian churches in this region also, Sveti Elena and Sveti Constantine, that would benefit from the build up of the Macedonian population.