Albanianization in Macedonia

[lavce pelagonski]

[Niko777]

A fifth elementary school was renamed in Skopje today, this time after this individual:

[makedonche]

A fifth elementary school was renamed in Skopje today, this time after this individual:

Niko77
What?..... they ran out of human beings so they chose him?
Has any Macedonian in ROM objected to this?

[Niko777]

Has any Macedonian in ROM objected to this?

Not really no. The Albanians are currently testing both the Macedonian public and the government. Neither one is doing anything.

[Epirot]

- The main boulevard in Gostivar was renamed after a WWII Albanian nationalist and Nazi collaborator

Niko, I've repeatedly said on several occasions my opinion on the alleged 'albanization of Macedonia'. I firmly maintain that your perception does not coincide with the reality in Macedonia. However, I find the place to reply at your assertion about the above Albanian "Nazi collaborator". I don't deny that he might have sided with the Nazis during WWII, but you have to take into account the whole situation at that time. Some Albanians sided with the Germans, not because they were persuaded by their ideology but because there was no other choice. I am sure most of them had not any clue what was Nazi ideology. On the contrary, Serbia and Greece (whose nationalist histories portray as strongholds against Nazism) were the first countries in Balkans who clearly cherished Nazi's ideology through their political organizations. Against their will, Albanians & Macedonians were forced to ally with Germans because this was the only way to throw off the Serbian & Greek yoke respectively. Put yourself into Aegean Macedonian's shoes at that time!

The Macedonian people were now faced with a dilemma: remain at home and accept fate in the hands of the blood thirsty Nazi collaborators or forever leave their homes and ancestral lands and cross over the border? Out of the two evils, the Macedonians chose to remain at home and together with the democratic people of Greece, resumed their struggle for their freedom, equality and human rights for all.
http://www.maknews.com/html/articles...stefov147.html

But both Albanians and Macedonians fought valiantly against Nazi's, which is why the Partizan movements were so active in Albania and Macedonia.

P.S: Personally I would not suggest the naming of streets with the names of people who had been involved in Nazi's organizations. But the same criticism goes also for your side. I've read somewhere that some Macedonians (who had participated on Ohrana) got pensions from your government.

[Nomad]

I agree with Epirot, and it's absurd to think that all the albanians in Macedonia were " thirsty Nazi collaborators ". Don't forget that they were macedonians who collaborate too, an old macedonian say to me one time when i talked with him about the People's Liberation Army of Macedonia : " Momce, i makedoncite ne sa tsisti " ( Young men, the macedonians are not clean too) ...

[Risto the Great]

Nomad, that is the weirdest Macedonian choices in written language I have seen in some time.

I only agree with Epirot about "not suggesting the naming of streets with the names of people who had been involved in Nazi's organizations".

He seems to deny other issues about the Albanianisation of Macedonia which seems more than blatantly evident if anyone reads this thread.

[Big Bad Sven]

Niko, I've repeatedly said on several occasions my opinion on the alleged 'albanization of Macedonia'. I firmly maintain that your perception does not coincide with the reality in Macedonia. However, I find the place to reply at your assertion about the above Albanian "Nazi collaborator". I don't deny that he might have sided with the Nazis during WWII, but you have to take into account the whole situation at that time. Some Albanians sided with the Germans, not because they were persuaded by their ideology but because there was no other choice. I am sure most of them had not any clue what was Nazi ideology. On the contrary, Serbia and Greece (whose nationalist histories portray as strongholds against Nazism) were the first countries in Balkans who clearly cherished Nazi's ideology through their political organizations. Against their will, Albanians & Macedonians were forced to ally with Germans because this was the only way to throw off the Serbian & Greek yoke respectively. Put yourself into Aegean Macedonian's shoes at that time!



But both Albanians and Macedonians fought valiantly against Nazi's, which is why the Partizan movements were so active in Albania and Macedonia.

P.S: Personally I would not suggest the naming of streets with the names of people who had been involved in Nazi's organizations. But the same criticism goes also for your side. I've read somewhere that some Macedonians (who had participated on Ohrana) got pensions from your government.

So the shiptars that were allied to the Nazi's in WW2 were not "really nazi's and "didnt know what was going on" and "didnt really understand what nazism was" LOL, well then fair enough...... you were more then happy to receive support financially and through arms from the nazi's though...

So whats your excuse for the shiptars performing genocide on the macedonians during WW2 and educating (more like brainwashing) the albanian population on "greater albania" and "ethnic albania"?

You guys are full of shit. You guys are the weakest bastards in the balkans, always making excuses and never taking the blame.

[Big Bad Sven]

In the past week, the following events took place in Macedonia:

- 4 elementary schools in Skopje were officially renamed after past Albanian Prime Ministers and UCK terrorists

- The main boulevard in Gostivar was renamed after a WWII Albanian nationalist and Nazi collaborator

- The new school year was marked on Monday with the Albanian national anthem in schools in Tetovo region.

That is all!

LOL

And in the mean time the dumb yugo-macedonians sit on their fat arses in the cafe's, complaining how they dont have money to go to Italy for summer, remembering the good old times in yugoslavia, and complaining about how the australian macedonians walk around Ohrid like tough guys LOL

Everyone gives the french shit for folding like a bunch of pussies in WW2, but the biggest pussies and losers in Europe are clearly the macedonians.

[makgerman]

P.S: Personally I would not suggest the naming of streets with the names of people who had been involved in Nazi's organizations. But the same criticism goes also for your side. I've read somewhere that some Macedonians (who had participated on Ohrana) got pensions from your government.

Epirot, not Ohrana from you as well?

Are you trying to say there were many cruel Macedonians who fought alongside the Nazis so that they can form a Greater Macedonia??? To do so they massacred the poor, peace-loving Albanian, Bulgarians and today's modern Greeks??? And we worship them so much that we have named towns, schools and many songs after them?? Can you please tell us who these Macedonians were?

I mean, who can forget the poor Albanians who had no choice but to fight alongside with the Albanian Fascist Party to form a Greater Albania. They had no other choice, did they?

Going back to Albanization - aren't the children of the same poor Albanians trying to do repeat it again in the Balkans? They have already got Kosovo, stuck into Macedonia and Montenegro....Greater Albanian is on their minds again.

P.S. I have also read somewhere that all of the Australian kids who got injured riding kangaroos to school will be receiving some sort of compensation from the government in 2013. I am not sure where but I know I have read it somewhere.

[Epirot]

So the shiptars that were allied to the Nazi's in WW2 were not "really nazi's and "didnt know what was going on" and "didnt really understand what nazism was" LOL, well then fair enough...... you were more then happy to receive support financially and through arms from the nazi's though...

BBS,

You did not grasp my point. I was saying that some Albanians allied with Germans, not because they were convinced of their Nazi ideology. By siding temporarily with the Germans, it was thought as the only way to throw off the Serbian rule. I am not justifying their choice, I just want to give you a better understanding of that time. If I could turn back the time, I would join with the Partizan movement, who were the true fighters against foreign yoke.

So whats your excuse for the shiptars performing genocide on the macedonians during WW2 and educating (more like brainwashing) the albanian population on "greater albania" and "ethnic albania"?

The largest section of Macedonia during WWI was under Bulgarian occupation, was it? The Bulgarian troops were responsible for massacres of both Macedonians and Albanians. I know a lot of cases when Bulgarian troops committed massacres on undefended Albanian villages in Macedonia.

You guys are full of shit. You guys are the weakest bastards in the balkans, always making excuses and never taking the blame

Hold your horses! You're going to get absolutely nowhere if you insult all who have different opinions than yours. I did not try to find any excuse in my post, but to give a more balanced picture of the events. The simplistic view that all Albanians were Nazi's collaborators does not hold any water.

[Epirot]

.Are you trying to say there were many cruel Macedonians who fought alongside the Nazis so that they can form a Greater Macedonia??? To do so they turn massacred the poor, peace-loving Albanian, Bulgrains and today's modern Greeks???

makgerman,

Aegean Macedonians were more disposed to side with the Nazis, because they were oppressed for more than 30 years by the nationalist Greek regimes. Both of us know that they choose the wrong side, but they really had no other opportunities. I firmly stand to my earlier statement that those Albanians or Macedonians who fought alongside Nazi's were not followers of the Nazi's ideology.

And we worship them so much that we have named towns, schools and many songs after them?? Can you please tell us who these Macedonians were?

I am doing my best to find out an article, which indicate that some Macedonians (who participated on Ohrana's units) got pensions by the government. I'll post it!

[Risto the Great]

Do your best Epirot.
While you are at it, tell me about why Macedonia shouldn't be the homeland for Macedonians.

[makgerman]

makgerman,

Aegean Macedonians were more disposed to side with the Nazis, because they were oppressed for more than 30 years by the nationalist Greek regimes. Both of us know that they choose the wrong side, but they really had no other opportunities. I firmly stand to my earlier statement that those Albanians or Macedonians who fought alongside Nazi's were not followers of the Nazi's ideology.

What's this all of a sudden false accusation!

You have to accept the fact that the Aegean Macedonians did not fight with the Nazis nor did they use the Nazi ideology as your fellow Albanians did. Your claim is not only false but is also insulting.

The Aegean Macedonians that I know of all fought against the invaders (Nazis, Bulgarians etc) and some of my relatives were part of that group. The Aegean Macedonians were mainly involved during the Greek Civil War.

You haven't by chance read some books written recently by Bulgarian, Greek or Albanian historians ? Some Albanians claim they liberated Skopje during the war, some claim today's Republic of Macedonia is really Illyrian and should form part of Greater Albania.
And now the Bulgarians claim they are the liberators of the Jews during the war?

I am doing my best to find out an article, which indicate that some Macedonians (who participated on Ohrana's units) got pensions by the government. I'll post it!g my best to find out an article, which indicate that some Macedonians (who participated on Ohrana's units) got pensions by the government. I'll post it!

Good luck and when you find it I'll find an article about the kangaroos from an equal credible source.

[Epirot]

While you are at it, tell me about why Macedonia shouldn't be the homeland for Macedonians.

RG,

For heaven's sake, where did I implied that Macedonia should not be the homeland for Macedonians? Why am I so misunderstood? We have discussed this topic several times. I was very clear on this point.I see Macedonia as homeland of all its citizens, regardless their ethnicity. I don't get what has to do civil equality with the Albanization?

Do your best Epirot.

If I am not mistaken, there is a law in Macedonia, which guarantee pensions for combatants who took part in the National Liberation Movement in the Aegean Part of Macedonia. It has been said that some Macedonians (who previously fought alongside Germans) have forged their identity as to benefit from that law.

The following book may be a little bit biased, but however there are cited some original documents. Some Macedonians (participants of Ohrana) were afraid they might be punished after the war, so they decided to join to the Partizans:

It allowed formation of the "Slavomacedonian Battalion," with Gotse as its political commissar, to absorb the komitadjides defecting from the Germans. In less than a month, the battalion doubled its strength, incorporating many German or Bulgarian collaborators. The battalion became the salvation for many desperate individuals attempting to avoid reprisals at war's end: komitadjides, Ochranists, Siavomacedonian adventurers, Bulgarian and Yugoslav agents, and autonomists guided by communists freed from Akronafplia by the Germans, struggling to bury their Bulgarian past.
http://books.google.com/books?ei=-yR...#search_anchor