Albanianization in Macedonia

[Risto the Great]

Macedonians have been in denial since day one, whether it is the Albanization of the country, the poor state of living standards, the sell out of our flag and name... Until we admit these problems we can never move forward.

Interesting statement Niko.
I am yet to meet a Macedonian from Macedonia who freely admits these obvious points (aside from the living standards). They are indeed in denial. Whilst they are, they are easy fodder for the Albanians and others.

[Niko777]

It's like a person with a gambling problem or drug addiction, first step is to accept that you have a problem. You cannot ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist, being in denial will only make it worse.

The reason I brought up the living standards was because of a recent article where Macedonia's finance minister was quoted as saying "Macedonian economy is much better than the Greek one". We all know that Greece and the EU are in a huge mess, but don't get carried away and start ignoring our own problems, the fact still remains that living standards in Macedonia are one of the poorest in the region.

[lavce pelagonski]

Кошарка во Сарај: глорифицирање на албанската кауза, „Македонија“ стана „Дитурија“, Тоше е пе*ер…
12 фев 2012 16:43

Две различни имиња на салата, агресивна публика, навредливи скандирања, националистички песни на разгласот за време на паузите, невообичаено голем број неофицијални лица под кошевите, канодада од шишиња и лименки кон кошаркарите внатре, но и од снежни топки кон полицајците надвор.

Ова се работите на кои беше сведок новинарската екипа на МКД.МК за време на вчерашниот натпревар помеѓу Лирија и Куманово, одигран во скопската населба Сарај. Спортската победа на теренот ја извојуваа домашните кошаркари, но нивниот триумф делумно беше засенет од сите работи што се случуваа пред и по синоќешниот натпревар.

Шокот, барем за нас, се случи уште при доаѓањето пред салата, кога видовме дека таа има две имиња, „Македонија“, односно „Дитурија“, што на албански значи знаење. Првото е напишано со големи букви на големиот ѕид што гледа кон главната улица, а вториот е на табла закачена на влезот од салата. Зошто е тоа така знаат само органите во чија надлежност спаѓа именувањето на спортските објекти што се изградени со државни пари, односно од Агенцијата за млади и спорт (АМС).

Единствената трибина во салата беше претесна за да ги прими сите што сака да го проследат мечот, а колоритот познат – десетина албански знамиња што ги вееше навивачката група на домашните „Ребелет“. Македонско знаме, пак, само едно, и тоа мало, ставено зад записничката маса, колку да се задоволат правилата на Македонската кошаркарска федерација (МКФ).

А предводниците на МКФ би морале да се позанимаваат со Лирија, но и со официјалните лица на средбите во Сарај, најмногу поради големиот број неофицијални лица што во текот на натпреварот шетаат како шерифи крај аут-линијата. Нив ги имаше и синоќа и на секоја одлука што не им одеше во прилог на домашните им се закануваа на судиите влегувајќи речиси во теренот. Но тие не беа избркани оттаму, нешто што сигурно би се случило на натпревар во која било друга сала во Македонија.

Некој залутан кошаркарски вљубеник би имал проблем да сфати дали е тоа меч од македонска или, пак, од албанска, односно косовска лига. Но такви воопшто немаше, како што на трибините не можеше да се забележат навивачи што не се од албанска националност. За такви во Сарај нема место, не дека некој им забранил да доаѓаат, туку едноставно нема каде да седнат без да им се загрози безбедноста, особено ако навиваат за друг клуб освен за Лирија.

Навивачкиот репертоар горе-долу познат. Чести беа навредливите скандирања на сметка на македонската нација од типот „Каурски пи*ки“, како и величењето на Голема Албанија. Најшокантен, сепак, беше изборот на домашниот тим на песните што се пуштаа во паузата, а кои речиси без исклучок беа националистички. Дури и кога музиката во салата беше прекинувана, навивачите во салата продолжуваа да ги пеат овие песни, во кои се глорифицира албанската нација и нивната идеја за Голема Албанија.

Инцидентот на теренот на крајот од средбата само дополнително ги вжешти страстите кај највоинствените на трибините. Се упатуваа закани кон кумановци, кон кои беа фрлани шишиња и лименки. За среќа, никој не беше погоден.

Дури и на заминувањето од салата во Сарај проследивме петнаесетминутен концерт на навивачите на Лирија во кој доминираа антимакедонски песни што во негативна конотација го ставаат „македонското девојче“, како и музичката икона Тоше Проески. Летаа снежни топки снег кон полицајците, кои останаа мирни без да покажат никаква решителност за да се справат со проблемот. Можеби причина за тоа е што повеќето полицајци беа од албанска националност.

На крајот, се наметнува прашањето дали сега ќе се јават загрижените бранители на правата на Албанците кај нас, кои гласно негодуваа на македонските навивачки песни, пред сè на „Излези момче“, во која Албанците и не се споменуваат. Дали разните невладини организации ќе се огласат сега и ќе го осудат однесувањето на „Ребелет“?

Засега се огласи само МВР, кое во штурото соопштение вели дека полициската станица Ѓорче Петров презема мерки за расчистување на случајот во салата „Македонија“.

„На 11 февруари годинава, во времето од помеѓу 16 и 21 часот, во селото Сарај, Скопје, за време на кошаркарскиот натпревар помеѓу Лирија и Куманово, кој се одиграл во спортската сала ‘Македонија’, припадници на навивачката група ‘Ребели’ при крајот на натпреварот го нарушиле јавниот ред и мир со недостојно скандирање и насилничко однесување на спортски натпревар, при што фрлани се тврди предмети, пенкала, запалки и друго“, се вели во соопштението.

Игор Крстевски

Фото: Роберт Атанасовски

http://www.mkd.mk/13122/sport/kosarka-vo-saraj-glorificiranje-na-albanskata-kauza-makedonija-stana-diturija-tose-e-peder/

[Niko777]

Look at the pics below. The Macedonian government built this Albanian community a sports hall for their youth, allowed it to named the Albanian word "Ditura" (Knowledge), and yet the Albanians continue their disrepect by spray painting "Ilirida" on the wall.

[lavce pelagonski]

Треба ли Георгиев�ки да одговара за велепредав�тво?! - YouTube

Makedonija - Nova Albanska drzava (Ljubco Georgievski) - YouTube

[ProMKD]

Spot on niko there are people out there who pretend everything is allright.You got people who won't even admit it & they trivialise it .
Oh our friend promk has vested interest Owner - EverythingMacedonia.com we can't say the travellers are having problems with the albanians can we.

Yes, I'm an apologist moron stooge. And I'm an idiot because I created a website for foreigners to share the beauty of my fatherland. I created a website that doesn't pollute the people who know nothing about my country and give them a positive impression, thus hoping they will one day visit, spend their dollars/euros, and maybe help give my country and countrymen a better standard of living. Thus possibly giving my countrymen more of a reason to fight for their homeland, thus possibly defeating our enemies, thus putting our people in a better position in the world.

I guess I'm just a moron stooge apologist! And I deserve to be told off by some teenager from australia, who thinks that it's better to tell travelers that my country is a piece of shit run by albanians as opposed to a beautiful country that's actually worth visiting.

Maybe then, when all these tourists think that our country is a piece of shit, we will actually be able to earn some income from tourism, and maybe better ourselves. Oh wait, that's the OPPOSITE of how things work in the real world.

You have a lot of learning to do my friend, and I hope you are more careful about who you call a "stooge" and a "moron" in real life, because it could get you some real trouble. Besides, it won't get you any further acting like a jackass. Nobody respects people like that.

[George S.]

promkd who gives a shit what you think you stated what you are now sfu.Stop using your crap because peoiple don't agree with you are going around in circles.I have nothing to say to you except you are the one who offended me & you are going around in circles.
Remember you are not promoting the fatherland if you say the albanization of macedonia doesn't exist.You are the one denying it not me.I don't care what people do for a living as long as it's not lying to others & themselves now shut up i have had the last word.I don't want your reply back you hear.Each to his own.If you want a quote here's RTG quote he's spot on:I am yet to meet a Macedonian from Macedonia who freely admits these obvious points (aside from the living standards). They are indeed in denial. Whilst they are, they are easy fodder for the Albanians and others."So when all is said & done macedonians are to blame.

[Risto the Great]

Yes, I'm an apologist moron stooge. And I'm an idiot because I created a website for foreigners to share the beauty of my fatherland. I created a website that doesn't pollute the people who know nothing about my country and give them a positive impression, thus hoping they will one day visit, spend their dollars/euros, and maybe help give my country and countrymen a better standard of living. Thus possibly giving my countrymen more of a reason to fight for their homeland, thus possibly defeating our enemies, thus putting our people in a better position in the world.

Well done with that.
Nothing wrong with promoting Macedonia in that way (and the website looks fine).

It would be great to promote Macedonia as the homeland of Macedonians one day.

[Vangelovski]

Yes, I'm an apologist moron stooge. And I'm an idiot because I created a website for foreigners to share the beauty of my fatherland. I created a website that doesn't pollute the people who know nothing about my country and give them a positive impression, thus hoping they will one day visit, spend their dollars/euros, and maybe help give my country and countrymen a better standard of living. Thus possibly giving my countrymen more of a reason to fight for their homeland, thus possibly defeating our enemies, thus putting our people in a better position in the world.

I guess I'm just a moron stooge apologist! And I deserve to be told off by some teenager from australia, who thinks that it's better to tell travelers that my country is a piece of shit run by albanians as opposed to a beautiful country that's actually worth visiting.

Maybe then, when all these tourists think that our country is a piece of shit, we will actually be able to earn some income from tourism, and maybe better ourselves. Oh wait, that's the OPPOSITE of how things work in the real world.

You have a lot of learning to do my friend, and I hope you are more careful about who you call a "stooge" and a "moron" in real life, because it could get you some real trouble. Besides, it won't get you any further acting like a jackass. Nobody respects people like that.

ProMKD,

Tell tourists whatever you like, but this forum is not a tourism portal. The purpose of this forum is to make a clinical assessement of the situation in Macedonia and propose a solution to the fundamental issues facing the Macedonian people. These include the slave mentality, which has resulted in foreign domination and the appeasement of extremist groups.

[ProMKD]

Stop using your crap because peoiple don't agree with you are going around in circles.......[b/now shut up i have had the last word.I don't want your reply back you hear.[/b]

Listen little boy, sorry but you don't have the power to shut me up, you are not my mother nor the admin on this forum. Out of respect for MTO and the other members this will be my last rebuttal post to you, because we are going way off topic.

I can't believe you don't realize the ass you are making of yourself. "I have had the last word" what are you, not EVEN a teenager???

Risto,

Thanks for the nice comments. It's still in the making so it needs much more content, but I have invested lots of money and time in that website so far and it's nice to hear some feedback from a fellow MTO member.

I thought all Macedonians would be able to appreciate something like that, because I did it from the heart, and the benefits to our country are obvious, with no downfalls. Regardless, I won't let the immature comments of one MTO member (no names ) stop me from promoting my own country in a positive light. There can be no better way to promote such a beautiful place.

Anyways, back to topic!

The only thing that can wake the public and the media is these events - so we have to thank the shiptars for making such asses of themselves and actually showing their true colors in public, and in large numbers. Only then can the rest of Macedonia see what animalistic pigs they can be, and we can develop a way to lay down the law. Let's take it as a learning experience - as if 2001 wasn't enough.

[Risto the Great]

Only then can the rest of Macedonia see what animalistic pigs they can be, and we can develop a way to lay down the law. Let's take it as a learning experience - as if 2001 wasn't enough.

My point is simply that Macedonian cannot "lay down the law". They need the majority of the Albanians to agree to the new laws (if any). So it means nothing will improve for Macedonians in Macedonia. Unless we have Macedonians who are willing to fight. I don't mean fight for a new iPod, I mean fight for their identity.

Thanks for the nice comments. It's still in the making so it needs much more content, but I have invested lots of money and time in that website so far and it's nice to hear some feedback from a fellow MTO member.

No problem. You are using all the right symbols and your English is fine.

I would like to see details of notable tourist destinations which include a brief history as well as directions and costing options to get there. It would be great to build a database like that.

[Brian]

The reason I brought up the living standards was because of a recent article where Macedonia's finance minister was quoted as saying "Macedonian economy is much better than the Greek one". We all know that Greece and the EU are in a huge mess, but don't get carried away and start ignoring our own problems, the fact still remains that living standards in Macedonia are one of the poorest in the region.

Whose better in the region - Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Runamia, Albania or Kosovo?

Heard more than enough of 'poor Macedonians' like a broken record.
Living standards are NOT just your income - 'look I earn less than you'. What about expenses which are also a lot cheaper. The difference between those two figures is your living standard. I've been hearing as far back as I can remember 'how nice it would be to earn an average Australian salary and spend it in RoM.

If they can go to holidays in other countries - even over seas (see newspaper adds for travel), drive moderate to high value new cars, trod off to Serbia in the 1000's just for a hand-ball game, ect ect they aint that poor. Do you think nobody looks at Macedonian newspaper or the adds in them - you don't need to know someone's pay-packet, just watch how and on what they spend and how many people are doing it. Or articles like the X millions of Euros that went into Prilep alone for the tobacco sales - they're only 60 thousand people, if that , ect.

Now your sounding like the shiptari -' it's not fair unless we win the lotto every week'.

Don't tell me there's some poor bastard somewhere as an example - every country has them.

[ProMKD]

No problem. You are using all the right symbols and your English is fine.

I would like to see details of notable tourist destinations which include a brief history as well as directions and costing options to get there. It would be great to build a database like that.

My plan is exactly that: all major tourist areas to have a history, list of restaurants and accomodation, places to see and visit, photos/videos where applicable, etc.

If I can manage to assist ONE person in visiting our country, I think the website is a success and I can justify the cost of making it. If anybody has suggestions, please sign up for the website or fill out my online form and submit your feedback. Sorry again for the offtopic comments.

[Niko777]

Whose better in the region - Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Runamia, Albania or Kosovo?

Heard more than enough of 'poor Macedonians' like a broken record.
Living standards are NOT just your income - 'look I earn less than you'. What about expenses which are also a lot cheaper. The difference between those two figures is your living standard. I've been hearing as far back as I can remember 'how nice it would be to earn an average Australian salary and spend it in RoM.

If they can go to holidays in other countries - even over seas (see newspaper adds for travel), drive moderate to high value new cars, trod off to Serbia in the 1000's just for a hand-ball game, ect ect they aint that poor. Do you think nobody looks at Macedonian newspaper or the adds in them - you don't need to know someone's pay-packet, just watch how and on what they spend and how many people are doing it. Or articles like the X millions of Euros that went into Prilep alone for the tobacco sales - they're only 60 thousand people, if that , ect.

Now your sounding like the shiptari -' it's not fair unless we win the lotto every week'.

Don't tell me there's some poor bastard somewhere as an example - every country has them.

Look you can say whatever you want. But the people who I was referring to are Macedonia's rural community, which amount for 40% of the population, mostly farmers, elderly, and some really impoverished families. The people who you are referring to that are always going on vacations are city folks working in government enterprises.

Expenses are not all as cheap as you claim. Food prices are generally cheaper than say neighboring Greece but electricity and water are the same. Minimum wage in Greece has just been lowered from 725 to 600 Euros per month. The minimum wage in Macedonia is 200 euros. That means that the Macedonian minimum wage is 66% lower than the Greeks. I know some expenses are cheaper but no way are they all cheaper and certainly they are not 66% cheaper as the wages would imply.

Anyway this is not a tourist thread or economy thread, so please enough of going

[alex the great]

given the value of euros our macedonian money is cheaper.That's why a lot of euro countries come to macedonia for a holiday.