Strategy for Macedonians in GR. Boycott Voting!

[Coolski]

I was reading the following article on Kanal 5 about Nered, Egejska Makedonija, and the quote below got me thinking:

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=63366

-Секогаш кога има листи на Виножито, македонските гласови одат кај партијата на Македонците, но понекогаш кога ги нема, гласаме за Пасок или за Нова демократија, но тие само не лажат. Секои четири години ветуваат дека состојбата ќе се подобри, но тоа не се случило, вели Тане Влахов.

-Whenever there's an option to vote Vinožito, Macedonian votes go to the Macedonian party, but mostly when they're not listed we vote for PASOK or Nea Demokratia, however they only ever lie to us. Every four years they promise that the situation will improve, but it hasn't happened, says Tane Vlahov.

Here's my suggestion.

If the situation for Macedonians does not improve, perhaps Macedonians should not vote at all and boycott the whole system they call "democracy" in Greece. It is obviously a flawed system that does not protect their rights. If Vinožito appears, yes the Macedonians should vote, but if no party aims to recognise the Macedonians, Macedonians should boycott the whole system.

This will allow several positives to occur. It will strike fear into the Greek government, that Macedonians no longer fear Greek institutions, and it will also create a sub-movement for Macedonians to be able to govern themselves eventually given that they reject the system of their racist rulers.

If a political party such as Vinožito runs and Macedonians vote, then they will have representation in parliament. If not, don't vote!!

From what I understand the situation in Greece can not get worse than it already is, so threatening to block developments or investments in egejska Makedonija is hardly going to work.

Any comments on this strategy?

[Onur]

Turks having very similar problems in Greece. I believe Pomaks, gypsies, Vlachs and others too.

IMHO, all the minorities in Greece should act together and form a political party for themselves. Probably this would be the best time for it now since they are in crisis and even the Greeks hates from all of their politicians. I don't think there is any other way because even the most leftist party in Greece can become a fascist if it`s an issue related with Macedonian o Turks.

There is an ethnic Turkish party in Bulgaria called "Movement for Rights and Freedoms" and they get about %15 percent vote in there. There are Bulgaria citizen Turkish MPs in EU parliamentary in Belgium now. They were also part of the coalition in former government in Bulgaria by being 3rd political party in the elections. Why this shouldn't be in Greece?

[blackcactus]

Turks having very similar problems in Greece. I believe Pomaks, gypsies, Vlachs and others too.

IMHO, all the minorities in Greece should act together and form a political party for themselves. Probably this would be the best time for it now since they are in crisis and even the Greeks hates from all of their politicians. I don't think there is any other way because even the most leftist party in Greece can become a fascist if it`s an issue related with Macedonian o Turks.

I agree, we should work together, I feel if the minorities worked together in a variety of projects, including political, social, educational, etc, this issue that we all have with the Greeks will have an end in sight a lot sooner




My opinion on the original question:

Coolski not voting I feel is a wasted opportunity, the best form of defense is attack, votes should be used as a weapon, but there needs to be coordination/organization, or it's impact is blunted

[Makedonetz]

I was under the impression that there was a party in greece named Vinožito ? Is the rainbow party an affiliate with Vinozito?

Onur i concur with your idea but the probality of any minority in greece let alone us macedonians would get the time of day to form a party in this BS Demokratia country

Could you just imagine the terrosit & death threats a minor macedonian political party would recieve ever arose in Egej

blackcactus i hope your right bratko but any ideas of democracy happening for us down there will either happen

A) the older generation with this racist views dies over time.

B) Someone has enough and war breaks out.

I hope B doesnt happen as id hate to see the inocent people and our families who would be stuck in the middle.

[Prolet]

That article was brilliant Coolski, i watched the video footage too it was great.

This is what i ment in my other post, we cant turn our backs to our people in Egejska Makedonija. In Neret they dont even have internet there, what a disgrace i think our government should intervene and set up some sort of a satallite service from next door.

[Onur]

Onur i concur with your idea but the probality of any minority in greece let alone us macedonians would get the time of day to form a party in this BS Demokratia country

Could you just imagine the terrosit & death threats a minor macedonian political party would recieve ever arose in Egej

Yes i guess so too Makedonetz. Their fascists definitely goes crazy if an union of minorities tries to form a political party but trust me they cant do shit if Turkey supports this movement since all the fascists in Greece directed by the Greek politicians and government, never alone.

As for the Turks in Greece, i am sure they have the spirit and courage to realize such a thing. You know, they threw the newly elected Turkish MP into the jail just because he said that he is not Greek but Turk. After 2-3 months, Turkish government strictly told Greece to release him immediately and then Greek judge released him asap. He was a medical doctor with phd.

Watch this video. This is the year of 1990. Jailed Turkish MP speaks to the Turkish crowd in Gümülcine(Komotini) at the front of the courthouse right after he has been released from jail by the judge;

YouTube - Doktor Sadik Ahmet'in Mahkeme onunde cekilen goruntuleri


In his speech, he says;
"These prigs here are trying to deny our ethnicity... Some of them asked me to declare to be a gypsy but not Turk, only then they can release me from the prison if i deny my Turkish ethnicity. I told them that i rather stay in prison `till i die... We, the Turks hid them(Greeks) in our basement at WW-2 and we fed them there by risking our own lives. So we saved their lives but they are being ungrateful again as always and they(Greeks) betray us one more time... I challenge them to try to throw me in jail again because of this speech, if they can do that... There is no one in the world who can deny our ethnicity!" Crowd keeps yelling like "We are Turks"


P. S: There was an agreement between Germany and Turkey at WW-2 like if Germans harms any propriety which belongs to the Turks, they would compensate the damage and if they kill any Turks, then Turkey could consider this as an hostile act. So, Nazis didn't touch any Turkish citizens or the Turks, including the Turkish Jews. Thats why the MP reminds the events of WW-2 and how they saved the lives of Greeks at that time.

[Coolski]

Onur.. i think that's a great idea to forum a coalition of minority parties in order to win seats together and strive for rights important for all of us.

Blackcactus, what I was saying was that if there are no options for Macedonians, Macedonians should not vote. I would prefer them to waste their opportunity to vote rather than vote for one of the vile Greek parties and perpetuating and validating the fact that they will keep being re-elected using their current racist policies.

Ideally we would have Macedonians in Greek parliament, but until there are politicians to represent us Macedonians should not vote. Politicians will see that gap, and we might see more action either by Macedonian or a coalition minority party, or even Greek politicians that want to snap up votes. Either way, Macedonians should have a definite pre-requisite before they vote for any party. That party must recognise us as Macedonians.

[Rogi]

If nobody gets the Macedonian vote, then nobody will pander to the Macedonian vote.

That means they will still be able to continue their racist policies, because all candidates are affected equally as none of them receive the vote of the Macedonians.

It is imbalance that creates change.

[blackcactus]

Onur.. i think that's a great idea to forum a coalition of minority parties in order to win seats together and strive for rights important for all of us.

Blackcactus, what I was saying was that if there are no options for Macedonians, Macedonians should not vote. I would prefer them to waste their opportunity to vote rather than vote for one of the vile Greek parties and perpetuating and validating the fact that they will keep being re-elected using their current racist policies.

Ideally we would have Macedonians in Greek parliament, but until there are politicians to represent us Macedonians should not vote. Politicians will see that gap, and we might see more action either by Macedonian or a coalition minority party, or even Greek politicians that want to snap up votes. Either way, Macedonians should have a definite pre-requisite before they vote for any party. That party must recognise us as Macedonians.

Coolski if there is truly no option and no benefit then I agree, not voting then can be used as a protest

That to me is the last position that should be taken if all else fails, but it is a risky policy, better to be in the game than out of it

[sf.]

They need to fight the cause through the system. At this stage, this is their best (by a long margin) shot at achieving any level of success.

[Daniel the Great]

I suggest the Macedonians should vote for the Macedonian party Vinozhito, the ones who represent them and their fight for basic human rights.
Why are they being deceived to vote for a Greek party? don't they know already that there will be no change in the presence of these fascist Greeks.
The safest option is to vote for Vinozhito and unite as a people.

Onur, The Turks in Greece i believe are a large population.
Do they like the Macedonians have a party of some sought?

I was under the impression that there was a party in greece named Vinožito ? Is the Rainbow party an affiliate with Vinozito?

Makedonetz, The rainbow party and Vinozhito are the same thing.
Vinozhito is Rainbow in Macedonian.

[Coolski]

If nobody gets the Macedonian vote, then nobody will pander to the Macedonian vote.

That means they will still be able to continue their racist policies, because all candidates are affected equally as none of them receive the vote of the Macedonians.

It is imbalance that creates change.

From what i'm seeing they are continuing their racist policies regardless of which party receives more votes. I am going to assume that most conscious Macedonians in Greece vote for PASOK when there's no Vinožito option because they're left-wing.

That leads me to ask a number of questions. What has PASOK done for Macedonians and why should either PASOK or ND be rewarded with Macedonians participating in their dodgy system?

If we want to avoid ignorance by Greek politics, perhaps it is worth boycotting their whole process until a party that respects Macedonian rights woos Macedonian voters. This might be the first step to allow Vinožito to gain more ground, and at the very least it might lead to the major Greek parties actually taking notice. After all, if it's votes they're after each of them will know that there are several hundred thousand votes up for grabs for the party that respects Macedonian rights.

Another aspect of this idea is the ability to think outside the square and say to themselves: Hold on, why are we living in this unrepresentative system? This will scare Greece because it could lead to separatism etc. A reaction might indeed be more human rights for Macedonians.

It just seems that Macedonians in Greece need to demand more and vote in a much bolder fashion before they give their votes to people that despise them.

Voting is an individual thing, and even if people are forced to vote, it is very easy to submit a dud-vote. That could lead to a positive movement.

[Rogi]

All I am saying is, if there are 100 voters and 30 of them are Macedonians, if those 30 Macedonians boycott, then it is the same as there being 70 voters, it makes the Macedonians irrelevant because their votes just disappear from the electorate so there is no effect, no gain and no loss for any of the Greek parties.

If they ran an independent, or if Vinozito ran, then there is a quantifiable loss of votes (although a double-edged sword if it is a low figure). Or they can actively involve themselves in the top tier and second tier parties in Greece, exerting silent influence where less numbers are required.


Perhaps I am just biased against the use of a boycott as a protest. I do believe that a citizens vote is a citizens voice and their right. It seems counterproductive to be somewhat giving up your voice and your right, particularly for those, like the Macedonians living in the Aegean part of Macedonia, who are afforded so little rights and given no voice.

[vodenka]

Organized boycott of elections by Egejci would be an excellent way to show our electoral power! There is not a single greek political party which would not try to get us to vote for them and at that time we could make our play and ask recognition and more rights, inside the greek parties. All of these need a political organization and political will which in Egejska does not exist, right now. Vinozhito party is a joke, and I explained many times why this is: the facts are confirming my opinion. The Turks are very well organized in Thrace because they have strong and trustful leadership, which we Macedonians lack, for many years now. We have what we deserve!

[Onur]

Onur, The Turks in Greece i believe are a large population.
Do they like the Macedonians have a party of some sought?

There are about ~150.000 Turks in Greece, so not that many because of constant pressure from Greek government. There was about 150.000 Turks in Greece at 1920s too, so their population never increase because of the immigration to Turkey. They are migrating to Turkey to be able to educate and live like human beings. I read that about ~400.000 Turks immigrated from Greece to Turkey since 1923.

They have a lot of problems there. They cant select their own teachers, religious leaders and i heard that Greek employers asks them to vote for Greek MP candidates instead of Turks, otherwise they threaten them to fire.

150.000 people is not enough to form a political party and get enough votes to win seats at parliament. So, i am sure they would like to form a political party with other minorities like the Turks did in Bulgaria.

The Turks are very well organized in Thrace because they have strong and trustful leadership, which we Macedonians lack, for many years now. We have what we deserve!

Actually, they survive in there because of the support from Turkey, whenever possible. If all the minorities unites under one political party, then the Macedonians automatically gets the indirect support of Turkey as well.