Huge crowds rally in Spain for Catalan autonomy

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    Huge crowds rally in Spain for Catalan autonomy

    More than a million people rallied in Barcelona on Saturday to call for greater autonomy for the Catalan region, a day after a constitutional court said there was no legal basis to recognize it as a nation.


    More than a million people rallied in Barcelona on Saturday to call for greater autonomy for the Catalan region, a day after a constitutional court said there was no legal basis to recognize it as a nation.

    The ruling also said the Catalan language should not take precedence over Castilian Spanish.

    The decision came after a legal challenge to the Catalan region's statute of autonomy by the opposition conservative People's Party which favors a unified Spain. The statute of autonomy was approved by Catalan voters in a referendum in 2006.

    The statute gave the Catalan regional government greater powers in taxation and judicial matters as well as more control over airports, ports and immigration.

    The court ruled that the term "nation" defining Catalonia in the statute had no legal value because "the constitution only knows one nation, Spain."

    Widespread support

    Saturday's march in support of the statute of autonomy was led by the Socialist leader of the regional government José Montilla.

    A huge Catalan flag with the slogan "we are a nation, we decide ourselves" was unfurled while the crowd held up thousands of red and yellow Catalan banners.

    The statute has the support of the vast majority of political parties, trades union and social organizations in Catalonia, where a sizeable minority would like to see the wealthy region break away from Spain.

    Self-rule powers
    The statute was one of the first initiatives of the Socialist government of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, which took office in 2004. But the opposition conservative claim the statute undermined the idea of Spain as a unified state.

    It was approved by the parliament in Madrid in 2006 afer it was endorsed by Catalan voters in a referendum.

    Catalonia is home to around seven million of Spain's population of some 47 million, and accounts for 25 percent of its gross domestic product.

    Author: Nigel Tandy (AFP,dpa)
    Editor: Sonia Phalnikar
    Let me get this right, Spain told the Catalonians their language "should not take precedence over Castilian Spanish". Yet in Macedonia we see the world telling us what language takes precedence and where.

    The Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia describes the autonomous Catalonia as a nation but now the Spanish constitutional court says it is not a nation. I am confused and so should the rest of the world. This has attracted little attention and the matter is far from "best practice" in relation to human rights. What annoys me is that Macedonia would jump to attention like a little dog as soon as any organisation disagrees with matters of national significance to it. For the benefit of the uninformed, Macedonia changed its constitution to appease the ethnic Albanian minority who were fully supported by the USA and NATO in what was described in the Hague as a war during 2001. Who is the clever little dog?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
  • fyrOM
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 2180

    #2
    Do you know there is right and then there is right. Which is which depends on who is in power. Spain has Catalan and shares the Basques with the French. Any wonder why the Greeks and Bulgarians and Albanians in and out of RoM get so much support. Its an uphill battle for RoM but her success is essential for all Macedonians.

    Comment

    • Silver
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 85

      #3
      We should look for ways to callaborate with groups like the Catalans, Basques, Silicians and other oppressed minorities who live in Europe. Europe likes to talk about human rights and minority rights for all it's people but that is all it is, talk.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13675

        #4
        Good suggestion Silver.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • vicsinad
          Senior Member
          • May 2011
          • 2337

          #5
          Add to the list Ventians in Italy!



          Mass rally in Venice to call for independence from Italy

          Two centuries after Napoleonic forces snuffed out the 1,000-year Venetian Republic, Venetians are once again aspiring to become an independent state.

          Inspired by the nationalist aspirations of Scotland and Catalonia, pro-independence campaigners will hold a mass rally in the heart of the lagoon city on Saturday, calling for an urgent referendum to be held on the issue.

          Indipendenza Veneta, a newly-founded pro-independence movement, says it expects several thousand people to turn up for the rally.

          They will be ferried across the Grand Canal in gondolas to deliver a "declaration of independence" to the headquarters of the Veneto regional government.

          It may sound fanciful, and it will be fiercely resisted by Rome, but activists want to carve out a new country in north-eastern Italy which would comprise Venice, the surrounding region of Veneto and parts of Lombardy, Trentino and Friuli-Venezia Giulia.

          The "Repubblica Veneta", as it would be known, would encompass about five million people.

          Recent surveys show widespread support for independence among Venetians, who speak a distinct dialect and feel geographically and culturally distant from Rome.

          A poll conducted by Corriere della Sera in September found that 80 per cent were in favour of independence.

          A more recent poll by Il Gazzettino, a local newspaper, found a slightly lower but still overwhelming level of support – 70 per cent.

          The political movement was formed in May and shortly afterwards presented a petition with 20,000 signatures to Luca Zaia, the governor of the Veneto region.

          "We have gained a lot of momentum from what is happening in Scotland and Catalonia and things are moving fast," Lodovico Pizzati, the head of the movement, told The Daily Telegraph on Friday.

          "And we are building on a very strong base – calls for independence for the Veneto region go back to the 1970s. It may sound crazy but I think Veneto will become independent before Scotland or Catalonia."

          Mr Zaia has acknowledged the high level of support for independence but said there is no constitutional basis for Venice and the surrounding region to secede from Italy.

          The pro-independence activists say they have meanwhile referred their case to José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission.

          "We argue that our right to self-determination is being violated," said Prof Pizzati, a former World Bank economist who now lectures at Venice's Ca' Foscari University.

          Italy's economic crisis has only exacerbated Venetians' resentment against the central government in Rome.

          "The economic situation here is really desperate, with the recession hitting small and medium-sized businesses. Meanwhile of the 70 billion euros we pay in taxes to Rome, we get back about 50 billion euros, directly and indirectly. We are losing out on 20 billion euros a year," said Prof Pizzati.

          After more than a millennia of independence, the Most Serene Republic of Venice, La Serenissima, was invaded by Napoleonic forces in 1797, with the French deposing the last doge.

          After a few decades under Austrian rule, Venice and the surrounding region was incorporated into Italy in 1866, five years after the unification of the rest of the country.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #6
            Vicsinad there you go macedonia has really provided for you so you don't go overboard like the rest of the countries.
            "The Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia describes the autonomous Catalonia as a nation but now the Spanish constitutional court says it is not a nation. I am confused and so should the rest of the world. This has attracted little attention and the matter is far from "best practice" in relation to human rights. What annoys me is that Macedonia would jump to attention like a little dog as soon as any organisation disagrees with matters of national significance to it. For the benefit of the uninformed, Macedonia changed its constitution to appease the ethnic Albanian minority who were fully supported by the USA and NATO in what was described in the Hague as a war during 2001. Who is the clever little dog?Vicsinad after all has been done for you are you still thinking of going overboard on more priveleges??
            ""Mr Zaia has acknowledged the high level of support for independence but said there is no constitutional basis for Venice and the surrounding region to secede from Italy."Is it that bad that all they can do is secede is that the easy way out??So what's the outcome for poor macedonia is that meaning secession rights for albanians??I thought all countries in 2012 & borders have all been defined you can't create new borders etc.
            What happened to venice why didn't it revolt in the last century why now??"We argue that our right to self-determination is being violated," said Prof Pizzati, a former World Bank economist who now lectures at Venice's Ca' Foscari University."If that's the case everyman & his dog can revolt & starta revolution & take over other countries provided you are ready to die for it.
            __________________
            Last edited by George S.; 10-07-2012, 10:23 AM. Reason: ed
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • vicsinad
              Senior Member
              • May 2011
              • 2337

              #7
              Originally posted by George S. View Post
              Vicsinad there you go macedonia has really provided for you so you don't go overboard like the rest of the countries.

              Vicsinad after all has been done for you are you still thinking of going overboard on more priveleges??
              ""
              It's so silly how you pretend that I'm Albanian.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15660

                #8
                I genuinely can understand why some might think you're Albanian. You can't seem to respond when asked why ethnic Albanians deserve more rights than Macedonians in Macedonia. Even though you are an advocate for it. For the record, my opinion is that you are Macedonian (albeit not a very useful one for Macedonians).
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  #9
                  vicsand you are the one pretending to be an albanian.We had a nice practise on you & i don't care what you are.It didn't really bother me.If youre' not you should really apologise for being an idiot.I don't consider you as macedonian if a low one like that a slimy one.
                  Why waste our time & your time behind the charade.For a non albaniana you didn't pretend to be one we all made you out to be one a retatrded one at that.
                  As long as you come on & sticking for the albanian cause which you have you will be treated like the albanian that you are.Also all this time have you been in a sleep stupour where you are allways delusional in your dreams.Well you come to the right place
                  Last edited by George S.; 10-07-2012, 06:41 PM. Reason: ed
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • vicsinad
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 2337

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    I genuinely can understand why some might think you're Albanian. You can't seem to respond when asked why ethnic Albanians deserve more rights than Macedonians in Macedonia. Even though you are an advocate for it. For the record, my opinion is that you are Macedonian (albeit not a very useful one for Macedonians).
                    I never stated that I believe Albanians deserve more rights than Macedonians. This is why you have trouble getting an answer to your question, because what's the point of answering a question that's already a false question? I AM opposed to the OFA precisely because it gives more rights to the Albanians. Though I don't think it's the Badinter Principle that gives Albanians more rights. (Though, as I said before, it may not be implemented properly and that it probably isn't the best method to secure minority rights...just that the Badinter Principle isn't the devil of the OFA)

                    BUT. I can see how some people thing the Badinter Principle gives more rights to the Albanians. I don't interpret it that way, just like I don't interpret how affirmative action in the US gives more rights to blacks while many conservatives do believe it gives them more privileges. I believe the statements on the effects of the Badinter Principle in the topic where I originally posted in were exaggerated and not accurate. Someone didn't agree with me and started calling me anti-Macedonian. From that starting point, no kind of discussion can take place.

                    Comment

                    • vicsinad
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 2337

                      #11
                      Originally posted by George S. View Post
                      vicsand you are the one pretending to be an albanian.We had a nice practise on you & i don't care what you are.It didn't really bother me.If youre' not you should really apologise for being an idiot.I don't consider you as macedonian if a low one like that a slimy one.
                      Why waste our time & your time behind the charade.For a non albaniana you didn't pretend to be one we all made you out to be one a retatrded one at that.
                      As long as you come on & sticking for the albanian cause which you have you will be treated like the albanian that you are.Also all this time have you been in a sleep stupour where you are allways delusional in your dreams.Well you come to the right place
                      Idiot
                      Low
                      Slimy
                      Retarded
                      Delusional

                      You have anything else to say? Just for the record.

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        #12
                        Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                        I never stated that I believe Albanians deserve more rights than Macedonians. This is why you have trouble getting an answer to your question, because what's the point of answering a question that's already a false question? I AM opposed to the OFA precisely because it gives more rights to the Albanians. Though I don't think it's the Badinter Principle that gives Albanians more rights. (Though, as I said before, it may not be implemented properly and that it probably isn't the best method to secure minority rights...just that the Badinter Principle isn't the devil of the OFA)

                        BUT. I can see how some people thing the Badinter Principle gives more rights to the Albanians. I don't interpret it that way, just like I don't interpret how affirmative action in the US gives more rights to blacks while many conservatives do believe it gives them more privileges. I believe the statements on the effects of the Badinter Principle in the topic where I originally posted in were exaggerated and not accurate. Someone didn't agree with me and started calling me anti-Macedonian. From that starting point, no kind of discussion can take place.
                        You don't have to have a different interpretation. The proof of Badinter is that Macedonia has not solved a single issue in relation to minority rights. It has inflamed tensions in Macedonia. The only thing we can be sure about is that Macedonia is further down the path of federalisation on ethnic divisions than it has ever been. Badinter underpins the OFA and empowers the ethnic Albanians so artificially that anyone would think they are the majority in Macedonia.

                        An impartial reader might espouse the merits of Badinter. But a Macedonian should condemn it with their heart, soul and blood.

                        You are confused about the significance of the Badinter principle in relation to disproportionate rights. On one hand you say it doesn't offer disproportionate rights. On the other hand you can see why some people think it does offer disproportionate rights to the ethnic Albanians. Show me where and how any more damaging extra rights are enforceable in the OFA.

                        All this talk of ventilators on this thread. The Macedonians need the ethnic Albanians to approve a decision to revert back to the original flag. But you know this and this is why I absolutely detest Macedonians like you with all your "reasonableness".
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • vicsinad
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2011
                          • 2337

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          But you know this and this is why I absolutely detest Macedonians like you with all your "reasonableness".
                          Just remember, you drew the line.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8534

                            #14
                            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                            Just remember, you drew the line.
                            Victor, you drew the line when you came on here supporting the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement and promoting serbian culture.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #15
                              there's people outthere who want to tear you to shreds & you got the guill to say you are reasonable about it.You were very clear about whose side you are on.Do we need fake albanians or fake macedonians take your pick you don't fit in any of the categories You set out to deceive us all.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

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