Verbal Diarrhoea

[sf.]

I used to visit maknews more often sometime ago, but then it got boring when all these Greeks joined up and argued every minute point with pages and pages of posts, references etc. People like menelaos, mca, nikola etc (some of who are here now).

And here they are, doing the same thing now. They got in on a technicality: "sure you're Macedonians'" then proceed to destroy everything we know about ourselves and our history. I understand that some people here would like to prove the Macedonian position or practice their debating skills, but it's getting boring when the same old topics are rehashed.

We do not have to prove ourselves to these idiots, not here. Plus you can't and wont change their minds. All they'll do is clog up the forum with words and thousands of biased or unbiased evidence. The sheer volume of the argument would also confuse outsiders about the issues. So now you have a situation of confusion on Macedonian sites, and a Greek position on Greek sites (since our argument there is prohibited).

I suggest the administrators take some action, before we drown in Greek propaganda here.

[Risto the Great]

sf. they usually do not last very long here and have been reigned in every time. Most even before they are activated as members. There is always hope that some are here for real dialogue. People like JohnMKD have been a terrific surprise. But honestly, there are not many Greeks who have progressed to the 20th century.

[johnMKD]

Imho, their problem is that they stick to some kind of BC paranoia that they can "prove" that Macedonians were Greek and then they simply say it entails that also Macedonia today should be a Greek concept. I will say that for the distant past we cannot prove what they were. For me Macedonians were something different from the Greeks. But, even... what about all the time in between? For centuries our people have been identifying themselves as Macedonians. I don't care about what happened 2,500 years ago. I care about what has been happening for the last at least 600-700 years. Our people were Macedonians and the Greeks were happy about it because it was true also for them.
If they can fabricate a history in the last 200 years claiming to be direct ancestors of the Ancient Hellenes then they should back off.
We are better than that! Just say NO to any compromise to our identity!

[thessalo-niki]

I used to visit maknews more often sometime ago, but then it got boring when all these Greeks joined up and argued every minute point with pages and pages of posts, references etc. People like menelaos, mca, nikola etc (some of who are here now).
We do not have to prove ourselves to these idiots, not here. Plus you can't and wont change their minds. All they'll do is clog up the forum with words and thousands of biased or unbiased evidence. The sheer volume of the argument would also confuse outsiders about the issues. So now you have a situation of confusion on Macedonian sites, and a Greek position on Greek sites (since our argument there is prohibited).
I suggest the administrators take some action, before we drown in Greek propaganda here.

Verbal diarrhoea? I'm insulted here. I was always trying to be short.
(I was mca in maknews. Who were you?)
I can't say you changed my mind. But, I was affected a little, and I learned your Point Of View and things we never talk about in Greece.
All the rest is about debate.

P.S. The process "You have to call us Macedonians first", in order to enter the debate about the name, is of course humiliating for us. I don't believe it existed in maknews.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[Serdarot]

sf

with all respect, but i post here to educate people.

i dont care about their nationality

posting info can not damage our couse.

and don´t worry, on each propaganda post, they will get at least 10 contra-posts

we, the Macedonians, also have to understand that they (the modern Greeks) are here, we are neighbors, and we all have to learn to live in good relations

[Soldier of Macedon]

P.S. The process "You have to call us Macedonians first", in order to enter the debate about the name, is of course humiliating for us. I don't believe it existed in maknews.

And the attitude displayed by people like yourself who claim to be forced to behave like human beings and respect the way another nation identifies is disgraceful. You should feel humiliated, precisely because you have to be forced to behave normal, rather than doing it on your own without being prompted by the Macedonians.

Seriously, if it is that hard of a pill to swallow (being normal), you have done quite well to survive it thus far. Being normal isn't as nearly as 'hard' as you make it out to be. Think about how Macedonians here feel when somebody like you wants to be treated with respect even though they know that you don't respect their identity and force yourself to be normal just so you can show your 'objectivity'. You're not sincere, and any signs of 'respect' from yourself aren't genuine, your own comments prove this. Change your attitude if you want to find out more about the things you "never talk about in Greece".

[sf.]

Verbal diarrhoea? I'm insulted here. I was always trying to be short.
(I was mca in maknews. Who were you?)
I can't say you changed my mind. But, I was affected a little, and I learned your Point Of View and things we never talk about in Greece.
All the rest is about debate.

P.S. The process "You have to call us Macedonians first", in order to enter the debate about the name, is of course humiliating for us. I don't believe it existed in maknews.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

30 posts of 1000 words each or 1000 posts of 30 words each - the result is the same.

sf - I carry this name in all Macedonian forums.

The 'process' is to let you enter here, not to debate our name but to show you accept it. You've just shown that you don't and why they have allowed you here still is beyond me.

Whether you're insulted and humiliated or not, doesn't bother me.

sf

with all respect, but i post here to educate people.

i dont care about their nationality

posting info can not damage our couse.

and don´t worry, on each propaganda post, they will get at least 10 contra-posts

we, the Macedonians, also have to understand that they (the modern Greeks) are here, we are neighbors, and we all have to learn to live in good relations

Admirable brother, and please continue your work. But, for every issue that we revert to from square one, we're expending effort that could be directed at new research.

If we need to live together, it would have to be on our terms. If they can never afford us respect, then we'll never have a good relationship.

[Rogi]

Why do we have any Greeks on this forum, who wish to argue, rather than ask, read and learn?

Keep only the ones who seem sincere enough and are not distracting and detracting from the purposes of the forum.

The debates with most of them, where we have to constantly prove our existence to them, are pointless and detracting.

I'm all for a progressive forum that focuses on Macedonian issues and solutions for those issues, without those pointless debates with Greeks who have nothing better to do than sign-up and regurgitate the same posts from their own dying forums in an attempt to make themselves relevant.

[Soldier of Macedon]

To be quite honest, I think the MTO does well in this department. Seldom does a Greek (or other anti-Macedonian) racist get a chance to spread his garbage here, and when they do, they are appropriately dealt with.

But, for every issue that we revert to from square one, we're expending effort that could be directed at new research.

I agree, and that is why such people don't last here. I think it is beneficial to always get other points of view across, but discussions need to come to logical conclusions. If the topics have already been 'done to death', and some moron(s) still pursue, then again, the appropriate action will be taken.

The MTO is far from being a website where Macedonians are stepped on, disrespected or aren't in control, quite the contrary rather. I am prepared to leave closet racists of the Greek type on here until they either a) change, or b) exhibit their idiocy and receive a ban. Option c) is for them to remain quiet each time their racist tendencies urge them to idiotically respond, during which at some point they will become clinically insanse (if they aren't already). Either way, we (admins) have it covered.

[osiris]

greeks are as authentically greek as greek coffee tztziki and best of all greek easter, we have proved beyond any shadow of doubt how modern greece was cobbled togther by its many insecure and eslf loathing nationalities, they can whine on incessantly about their links with ancient hellas but is patently not true.

[thessalo-niki]

You should feel humiliated, precisely because you have to be forced to behave normal, rather than doing it on your own without being prompted by the Macedonians.

I was mostly thinking of dialogues like this

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3181&page=6

That makes me feel like a Greek communist pressed to sign a dilosis, but without being tortured.

Think about how Macedonians here feel when somebody like you wants to be treated with respect even though they know that you don't respect their identity and force yourself to be normal just so you can show your 'objectivity'. You're not sincere, and any signs of 'respect' from yourself aren't genuine, your own comments prove this. Change your attitude if you want to find out more about the things you "never talk about in Greece".

I'm not treated with respect, neither I want to (that's up to the other users and the administrators). I don't have a problem with being called names etc, I'm cool with it, and I'm usually restrained, polite and (I hope) meaningful. I just don't want to get banned.
I understand respect differently, like "Sorry, I disagree with you, ...". My position is not identical with the one of the Greek State, but it's not much different (sincerely). When I had friendly collaborations with your people or gave some lectures in Skopje, I was saying Macedonia and Macedonians out of courtesy, though in both sides we made some jokes and teased eachother about the whole issue.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[thessalo-niki]

Why do we have any Greeks on this forum, who wish to argue, rather than ask, read and learn?

Well, that's the problem (and the beauty) of dialogue. The other part may be just the one who asks, listens and agrees, while you do all the talking'. Or, gasp, he suddenly disagrees with you.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[julie]

thessalo-niki , or gasp, they agree with you

[Daskalot]

I was mostly thinking of dialogues like this

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3181&page=6

That makes me feel like a Greek communist pressed to sign a dilosis, but without being tortured.

You remember, good, then you will not have a problem to tell me what my ETHNICITY is this time around? So what is my ETHNICITY please?

I just don't want to get banned.

Why would you want to be a member of this forum?
Please provide us with some useful material from Greece. Be constructive and find something that is useful to us. Scan the 1920s census of Greece, especially the part on the Northern territories. Can you do that?

[Risto the Great]

When I had friendly collaborations with your people or gave some lectures in Skopje, I was saying Macedonia and Macedonians out of courtesy, though in both sides we made some jokes and teased eachother about the whole issue.

That sounds nice and playful.
Perhaps the Greek government can learn from your actions and be more playful about the matter as well. We all like a good joke.