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  • Philosopher
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1003

    Maggotsontheweb

    I was doing some research on the net and I came upon this website, better known as maggotsontheweb. Here is what I saw.

    More linguistic hilarity from the Skops

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I laughed out loud when i read this, especially the parts i highlighted in bold.



    Musings on the Macedonian Language

    by Odisej Belchevsky

    November, 2003

    If someone were to tell you there are words in the English language (as well as other European languages) that have their roots in Macedonian it might sound unusual and you may not readliy accept the idea.

    After much study, however, I have analyzed some 2000 words and my work indicates they are related to the Macedonian language.

    I have gone back to 1500 BC and confirmed the existence of Macedonian words in Europe's most ancient writings -- The Homeric Poems.
    I have found words with roots in Macedonian that lead to other words. Many are actual language concepts with their structure in Macedonian. They form, or are part of, "families of words." These concepts do not exist in English, German or French, but are found in the so-called Slavonic languages.

    How many are even aware that in 2003 the World Association for Rock Art Inscriptions established Macedonia as having the world's highest number of stone carvings and inscriptions since prehistory?

    As part of my studies I have created a rule for establishing the roots of a word by the use of what I call "functional etymology". In simple terms, most words can be explained by finding their family and related or "sister" words and then searching for their functional meaning in practical life. I have taken a number of years to test this rule and proven it in many instances.
    In official Oxford sources the root of many English words is given as "of unknown" or "obscure" origin. However, by using the Macedonian language some of them can be explained.

    I have talked to linguists about this but usually their comments are evasive as they try to avoid the subject. There is not a single linguist in the Western world I know of that has done any related studies.

    Let me make it clear that I am not talking here of universal words such as radio, tank, television, radar, coffee, laser, etc. I am talking about basic, fundamental words like: water, watch, wade, warden, book, trek, shire, path, meek, divine, odometer, etc. This, of course, is only a tiny example.

    When comparing these words with Macedonian words I had to go back and use the Old English and Old Germanic forms in order to acquire the proper meaning. I discovered that the older form is usually closer to the Macedonian meaning. Let me offer a few examples that explain how we can find the meaning of a word, its family relations, its roots and concepts:

    Water - Wota - Woda - Voda

    Water (Voda) conceptually derives its name because it is a liquid and moves. When we pour it, it takes the lead or moves ahead and creates its own path. By simply observing nature we see that rivers move and flow. These rivers, if large enough, are used as natural paths and roadways.

    In Macedonian this word is important and at the root of the concepts of movement and leading as well as other related words. This is the "key" that unlocks the meaning of many other words and concepts.

    Voda (Water) relates to vodi meaning to lead or to carry.

    From here we have odi - to go, to travel, to move. This contains two fundamental word particles in Macedonian that indicate movement or displacement.

    These are: "od" (from), and "do" (to) and together they create oddo (od + do) that again leads to "odi" meaning to go, to travel, to move. These particles are always used when describing movement, from one point to another.

    Thus we get the following:

    Voda - vadi, vade, navadi, livada (a moist or green pasture).

    Note here the English term "wade" which means to move in water.

    Vodi - to lead

    Vodach - leader

    Voditel - leader

    Vodici - Holy day associated with water

    Vodenje - leading

    Voden, Vodensko, etc., place names of wet regions

    Navodni, navadi - to water

    Uvod - the beginning and summary of a book

    Navod - to bring forward

    Uvedi - to bring into a record


    The Concept of Movement

    The concept of movement has developed from water

    Voda, Vodi = V + Odi

    Odi, ode, ojde, ajde, otide, ide, idi

    I have found the verb form idi (iti) in the Homeric poems dating back to 1500 BC.

    Doide - came

    Sjoide - went

    Po-odi(e)- short walk

    From here we can explain the meanings of many other words, for example:

    Odometer - Odo = to move or go + Meter = to measure. In Macedonian (odomeri).

    In electricity we have terms like, Anode. "An" is old Macedonian word for "Na" (Nad) meaning on or above + ode = go, move. Thus anode is explained as to go above or bring above.

    Cathode - In Macedonian we have k'ti, kutni = bring down, + ode = go, move. Thus cathode is explained as to go down or to bring down.

    Itinerary - has the Macedonian verb Idi (iti) = go, move, travel, as well as the noun Idenje = traveling.

    If we turn briefly to Greek we can see that the Greek language has borrowed from this large family /concept the word -"Odos "- street and "odeo" to travel, mainly found in the Homeric poems. However this concept of movement simply does not exist in Greek, English or many other European languages (Except in the Slavonic languages).

    Unfortunately, the Oxford and Webster authorities have referred to many of these words as "Greek" without any convincing proof as to their roots or families.

    Here is a brief explanation of the remaining English words mentioned here:

    Vardi, Varde - to watch or guard in Macedonian (Warden,Guard in English)

    Bookva, bookvar - Book

    Trk (trka trcha, trkalo) - Trek

    Shirina, shirinka - Shire

    Pat - Path

    Mek, Meko - Meek

    Divina, Divovi - Divine

    In Macedonian "bookvar" is the very first "book" for learning to read and write. The word bookvar is related to a large family of words. This represents the larger concepts of learning and writing.

    Alphabet, Learning, Writing and Science

    Booka (buka) - In Macedonian this is a type of birch tree the bark of which is used to make paper tablets for writing*

    Bukva, Bukvi - the letters of the alphabet

    Bookvar - elementary learning book

    Azbooka = (J)azik (Tongue or Language) + Bukva (Alphabetic Character) - used for reading and writing.

    Nauka, uka - Science of learning, Learning

    Nauchnik - Scientist

    Nauchi, Uchi - to learn

    Uchilishte - school

    Uchitel - teacher

    * In 1992 in Stobi, an ancient archaeological site near Veles, Macedonia, a wood-paged book was discovered along with a bottle for ink and a writing pen. Also in the Homeric Poems of approximately 1500 BC there is mention of the Ancient (Magic) wooden tablets that contained the letters /symbols that "spoke". The writing was done on the wooden surface prepared with natural bees wax and scratched with a solid /metal pen like tool .

    These examples only "scratch the surface" of what I have found, but indicate the Macedonian language may have had an influence on other European languages from early times.

    In the past many unknown inscriptions were dubiously identified as possibly Greek or unknown but, as I mentioned, they can easily be translated with the use of Macedonian and other Slavonic languages. Scholars will have to consider this influence if they want to get a better understanding of the languages in Europe.
    Odisej Belchevsky,
    Macedonian Language Researcher

    LOL

    Thankfully, there are some slav linguists who have more sense. The following is a post from a Slovak linguist in a Skop forum :

    "Macedonian is a new Slavic language, it virtually lost all of it's grammar and only thing that ties it with other Slavic languages and it's paternal languages is a similar vocabulary. It's layers and deeper meanings have faded compared to other Slavic languages, it is merely your lack of knowledge of these languages that prevents you from realizing this. I will not have anything to do with any future hypothesis about the Macedonian language as it is a futile attempt to try and reason with you people.

    Macedonians never believe anything concerning linguistics since they believe their language is the oldest and the best preserved Slavic language, when in truth it is vice-versa.

    I don't have patience with you anymore so you can go explore your language blindly into a dark cave. Good luck and hope a bear eats you."

    LOL


    tyrian30
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    #12 (permalink) Yesterday, 12:20 AM
    tyrian30
    Hypaspistes Join Date: Apr 2008
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Our Slovak friend confirms that not only is 'modern Macedonian' unconnected to any ancient language but it is a new slavic language.
    Never mind being an ancient language, it isn't even an old slavic one.

    We shouldn't call them slavs, we should call them New slavs LOL

    ethnicity: New Slavic

    language: New Slavic

    country: Republic of New Slavonia

    QED

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by tyrian30; Yesterday at 12:23 AM.


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    #13 (permalink) Yesterday, 01:03 AM
    Truth Bearer
    Strategos Join Date: Dec 2005
    Location: Mt Olympus,Macedonia,Hellas
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Odisej Belchevsky,

    What a loser I suppose his name Odisej is the original name of Odysseus right??This clown carries an original Hellenic name and claims it's ""macedonian"??@@!@!@??
    And to give himself a Russian feel he spells his surname with a Y instead of an I....
    Does he really think we are born yesterday?
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    #14 (permalink) Yesterday, 01:41 AM
    Truth Bearer
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By the way this baboon with a Greek name has no idea and really is a waste of time read here what a malaka and how uneducated this simple minded slav is..

    Part 1 - Is There a Practical Meaning to Mythology?

    by Odisej Belchevsky

    November, 2003


    Quote:
    In the spring, when Hades changes to Pluto (his brother), Persephone comes back to the surface bringing with her Pluto’s wealth of the agriculture and all Demeter’s gifts of nature back to the mortals …

    Code:
    http://www.maknews.com/html/articles...hology1.htmlDo I really have to say any more??
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    Thermopylae 480 B.C




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    #15 (permalink) Yesterday, 02:26 AM
    pankration
    Strategos Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 950



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tyrian30
    It is my belief that the etymology of the word FYROM is derived from the root words “MAL” and “AKES”.
    Putting it all together we come up with "MALAKES"
    The assumption MUST therefore be made that those from FYROM are derived from "MALAKES".

    You SOB ( you stole my lines. I was thinking the same thing! Well done, tyrian.
    __________________
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    #16 (permalink) Yesterday, 04:10 AM
    sm001
    Pezhetairos Join Date: Sep 2008
    Posts: 32



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Musings on the Macedonian Language

    by Odisej Belchevsky

    November, 2003

    If someone were to tell you there are words in the English language (as well as other European languages) that have their roots in Macedonian it might sound unusual and you may not readliy accept the idea........

    lol!!!!!!
    have they no shame


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    #17 (permalink) Yesterday, 04:30 AM
    Vasco
    Officer Join Date: Jul 2008
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well,the most original etymology appeared about a dozen of years ago in the local nationalistic press:

    "Maki do nea" "Troubles next to her",the etymology being based on "Macedonia's evil neighbors since the beginning of history"
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    #18 (permalink) Yesterday, 04:34 AM
    Vasco
    Officer Join Date: Jul 2008
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Truth Bearer
    Odisej Belchevsky,

    What a loser I suppose his name Odisej is the original name of Odysseus right??This clown carries an original Hellenic name and claims it's ""macedonian"??@@!@!@??
    And to give himself a Russian feel he spells his surname with a Y instead of an I....
    Does he really think we are born yesterday?


    Actually, they took over that name, too. The etymology they forged is "Odi, sej!"...."Go and sow!".
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    #19 (permalink) Today, 12:11 PM
    tyrian30
    Hypaspistes Join Date: Apr 2008
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasco
    Well,the most original etymology appeared about a dozen of years ago in the local nationalistic press:

    "Maki do nea" "Troubles next to her",the etymology being based on "Macedonia's evil neighbors since the beginning of history"

    LOL. How many ridiculous meanings for 'Makedonia' will they find?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vasco
    Actually, they took over that name, too. The etymology they forged is "Odi, sej!"...."Go and sow!".

    Vasco, the Skopian linguist theories always seem to be directed at their own populace, an illiterate audience is the only audience which is receptive to this clap-trap.
    As admitted by the Skopian Ulysses above, whenever they offer their theories to international scrutiny, they are met with derision and 'evasion' by international language experts.

    Language academia avoids the Skop theories like the plague and tries to 'evade' this nonsense:

    Skop linguistic genius:
    "There is nothing in the word Odyssey or “Odusseia” that, when broken down, means “a going or traveling or a journey” of sorts.
    Could it be that this word, like Vasil, is an ethnic Macedonian word? And could it be that Western academics have yet again been mistaken?

    Clearly the word “Odyssey” is not Greek in origin.
    The Macedonian word “Odisi,” not only sounds like “Odyssey,” but as we shall see, means something very similar."

    Slovak linguist with the voice of reason:

    "I will tell you right away that Odysseus has nothing to do with Macedonian word "odisi". You have your little hypothesis about relation between Odysseus and "odi" but you ignore so much due to lack of knowledge. Can you not figure out what I am saying?! The very word "odi" did not exist in Macedonian before some 400-200 years ago.

    The Southern South Slavic (southern Serbian and Macedonian) languages drop the letter [x] in virtually all words. Hence the word "hodati" in Serbian, which means to walk, is "odati" in it's southern dialects and I believe it is so in Macedonian as well. Words like odi=come, ajde*=come on, leb=bread, lad=cold, etc. all begin with a [x] in all other Slavic languages (hodi, hajde, hleb, hlad, etc.) as well as in Old Slavonic i.e. Old Macedonian.
    Hence I doubt that Odysseus has a meaning in Macedonian through that word."

    BTW, the thread in maknuts regarding "Uniquely Macedonian Words" has reached 12 pages and they didn't find ONE uniquely 'Macedonian' word.


    Naturally, these uncouth morons, as normal, fail to disprove anything. All they know how to do is to mock, scorn, and deride. Furthermore, they love to appeal to authority.

    For once, why don't you do your own original research instead of using authority? And, if possible, not mock people who make you people look like first graders.
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    #2
    It is not unlike reading some KKK banter.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Orovnichanec
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 410

      #3
      They are a confused group what more can you expect?
      "Oh, Macedonians! It is time we realized that the greatest demon Macedonia must battle against is none other than Bulgaria" - Krste Petkov Misirkov

      Comment

      • Delodephius
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 736

        #4
        I say we hang them by the balls down an olive tree. I'm disgusted when my words are quoted on that *cough* "forum".
        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
        This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

        Comment

        • El Bre
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 713

          #5
          My entry into the 404 page contest is now apparently the official "not found" redirect for YTMND.com. I didn't even find out until a month after the fact...

          Comment

          • Delodephius
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 736

            #6
            Originally posted by El Bre View Post
            in the mornin' mornin'...
            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #7
              SAT possibly wrote:
              "Macedonian is a new Slavic language, it virtually lost all of it's grammar and only thing that ties it with other Slavic languages and it's paternal languages is a similar vocabulary. It's layers and deeper meanings have faded compared to other Slavic languages, it is merely your lack of knowledge of these languages that prevents you from realizing this. I will not have anything to do with any future hypothesis about the Macedonian language as it is a futile attempt to try and reason with you people.

              Macedonians never believe anything concerning linguistics since they believe their language is the oldest and the best preserved Slavic language, when in truth it is vice-versa.
              SAT, I never received a response from you in another thread based on a similar discussion.

              Do you feel that the language could be either very young or very old? What would be your arguments for either? Either scenario sits quite well by me.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Delodephius
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 736

                #8
                I would say the scale shifts towards the "newer language". Macedonian has a newer grammar, but not all of it. So it lost all cases, so what, it preserved it's verb system, something West Slavic languages have not (we only have three tenses, Macedonian has like seven I think). Vocabulary causes the biggest problem since Macedonian uses a lot, and I mean a lot of Turkisms and it is quite obvious when comparing to other Slavic languages and the older ones like OCS.
                Macedonian language itself is quite old, but modern Macedonians have forgotten most of it. Most of today's Macedonian internet crusaders are not from the motherland and most of them don't know the language like someone who studied it extensively in Macedonia and knows other languages as well, especially other Slavic languages to compared it with. I would dare to say Macedonian has some 400.000 words in it's vocabulary and as I said an average speaker knows some 5.000 words while a scholar would know two or three times that much. For example, could you tell me the names of all the thousands of parts that make an army tank in Macedonian? I thought so. Regardless if the words are of foreign origin, but that's just it. How much of those 5.000 words and average speaker knows are originally Macedonian and would he/she/it know to identify them. Think about that.
                अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                Comment

                • Bratot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2855

                  #9
                  "Skops"?

                  Does this forum administration tolerate such names for themselfs?
                  The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    "Skops"?

                    Does this forum administration tolerate such names for themselfs?
                    No it does not on here. But the original post was made to highlight how filthy and disrespectful the other forum is. If we edited the text, then it would lose its significance in that context.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15660

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                      I would say the scale shifts towards the "newer language". Macedonian has a newer grammar, but not all of it. So it lost all cases, so what, it preserved it's verb system, something West Slavic languages have not (we only have three tenses, Macedonian has like seven I think). Vocabulary causes the biggest problem since Macedonian uses a lot, and I mean a lot of Turkisms and it is quite obvious when comparing to other Slavic languages and the older ones like OCS.
                      Macedonian language itself is quite old, but modern Macedonians have forgotten most of it. Most of today's Macedonian internet crusaders are not from the motherland and most of them don't know the language like someone who studied it extensively in Macedonia and knows other languages as well, especially other Slavic languages to compared it with. I would dare to say Macedonian has some 400.000 words in it's vocabulary and as I said an average speaker knows some 5.000 words while a scholar would know two or three times that much. For example, could you tell me the names of all the thousands of parts that make an army tank in Macedonian? I thought so. Regardless if the words are of foreign origin, but that's just it. How much of those 5.000 words and average speaker knows are originally Macedonian and would he/she/it know to identify them. Think about that.
                      Thanks for the response.
                      Do you mean "newer" in the sense that it has changed by the most? Or "newer" in the sense that it came on the scene much later in Macedonia's history. Why bother retaining such a complicated verb system and discarding many of its cases? I don't think anyone will prove either way, but am interested in your thoughts.

                      You are right about the tank parts ... no idea ... but just like in the good old days, I am sure OCS would not have had names for them either!

                      500 years of Turks would certainly have an impact.
                      In fact, I am surprised at how intact the language is, bearing in mind the 500 years of Turkish rule. Do you think there is any chance whatsoever that some "Turkisms" could have gone from Macedonia to Turkey ... instead of the other way around? Perhaps the "turkisms" are in fact Bulgar remnants?

                      I don't think so ... but perhaps there are some words that they have inherited from South Eastern Europe. ?
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13675

                        #12
                        I will have to disagree with some points you have made Slovak.
                        I would say the scale shifts towards the "newer language". Macedonian has a newer grammar, but not all of it.
                        I think the term 'new' is misleading, as it can incorrectly indicate that the grammar was created overnight, which is obviously not true. If the differences between Macedonian and the other Slavonic languages are distinctive in a manner that suggests the latter are 'older' in grammar, isn't it more likely that it pertains to a different evolution as a language altogether? Macedonia remained in her borders, secluded from the Slavonic peoples to the north and within East Rome for a far greater period than its periodical semi-independence and occupation by Serbs or Bulgars. Furthermore, doesn't Allinei state that the origin or centre region of a language family evolves more while those further out and on the fringes preserve more of their original form, to one degree or another?

                        Vocabulary causes the biggest problem since Macedonian uses a lot, and I mean a lot of Turkisms and it is quite obvious when comparing to other Slavic languages and the older ones like OCS.
                        Macedonian uses Turkisms in a similar manner as do Bulgarian and Serbian although the number is not nearly as great as some seem to suggest. Also, to claim that Turkisms are a root cause for difference where it concerns Macedonian and the other Slavonic languages is not accurate at all. The most distinctive part of Macedonian as compared to the other Slavonic languages is the definitive article, which it shares with dialects in the south of Serbia and Bulgarian.

                        I would dare to say Macedonian has some 400.000 words in it's vocabulary and as I said an average speaker knows some 5.000 words while a scholar would know two or three times that much. For example, could you tell me the names of all the thousands of parts that make an army tank in Macedonian? I thought so.
                        Slovak, I cannot even tell you all of the parts that make an army tank in English, the example doesn't really hold much weight in respect to the Macedonians and knowledge of their own language. How many Serbs or Slovaks know all XXX,XXX words in their respective languages? Or all of the parts that make an army tank?

                        Regardless if the words are of foreign origin, but that's just it. How much of those 5.000 words and average speaker knows are originally Macedonian and would he/she/it know to identify them. Think about that.
                        How many Germanisms and Latinisms among other influences are there in Slovakian, Slovenian and Croatian? Would an average speaker know, of all the words they speak, which are originally Slavonic?

                        I think you have some animosity towards certain Macedonians due to their views, and you allow emotion to creep into your commentry. I will openly admit that I do not agree with much of what some Macedonians say either where it concerns these kind of topics, however, there are different ways to rectify such problems of innacurate thinking. If they don't know, then explain it to them mate, you have that ability to provide logic to your work, you should use it rather than indirectly (and unintentionally I am sure) making reference to the average Macedonian as one who knows little about their linguistic origins.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          #13
                          Slovak, I would appreciate it if you can comment or provide some information and feedback in the below thread:

                          Marko of Prilep, King of the Christians The two brothers Volkasin and Uglesa ruled jointly in western and eastern Macedonia respectively. Volkasin, the father of Marko, had risen up amongst the ranks of the Serbian imperial aristocracy, and eventually secured for himself the leading governing position in the region of
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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