Philiki Eteria founders most likely Vlachs & Slav

[TerraNova]

Omg...you r so dazed and confused...
where it says Androutsos is "Albanian"..?

Anyway...things melt in your head...

NO EVIDENCE AT ALL YET ABOUT KSANTHOS,SKOUFAS,TSAKALOF,ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

FAIL

CASE CLOSED

[TrueMacedonian]

Omg...you r so dazed and confused...
where it says Androutsos is "Albanian"..?

Anyway...things melt in your head...

NO EVIDENCE AT ALL YET ABOUT KSANTHOS,SKOUFAS,TSAKALOF,ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

FAIL

CASE CLOSED

No the case is not closed. Actually let's use the terminology closet opening because the skeletons of your nations past are doing the Tsam dance. Here's a little about Odysseus for you Terrable:

[Pelister]

TM,

This is a great book. In this book N.G.L Hammond also lists the Byzatine sources from the 11th centuries that say that four Albanian tribes - Albanoi, Mesaratai, Bouie and Malakassi are Vlach speaking. Not really relevent, but interesting regardless.

[TrueMacedonian]

TM,

This is a great book. In this book N.G.L Hammond also lists the Byzatine sources from the 11th centuries that say that four Albanian tribes - Albanoi, Mesaratai, Bouie and Malakassi are Vlach speaking. Not really relevent, but interesting regardless.

It is an interesting book Paul. I think as much as he was a philhellene in the 20th century he did good with Migrations and Invasions.

[Pelister]

Just on the theme of misrepresenting Greece, and Macedonia.

Pavlos Melas in a letter to Karavangelis suggested that Greece should spend cosiderable sums of money buying European newspapers

This comment has to be seen in the light of a letter found on a Greek prisoner with the directive:

Exterminate the Macedonian priests, the teachers and the notables, and neglect by no means of proving to the whole world that Macedonia is purely Greek

.

It was widely held conviction in the West that the balkans was full of Greeks.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So...no evidence about Tsakalov.
That's ok.

Do you have proof that he was an "ethnic Hellene"? Evidently this guy is some apparent father of your nation, and given that most of the other father's of your nation range from Albanians to Vlachs to British to Germans, it is up to you to show he was "ethnic Hellene".

Personally, I couldn't care less about him, the man is recorded with a Slavic name, and he is a father of your 'Greek' nation. It is no suprise that this doesn't sound the least bit odd to you, as you people have developed to ability to see sugar where there is only shit.

[TrueMacedonian]

As about the topic.
The founders of Philiki Eteria were initially 4.

1.Panagiotis Anagnostopoulos (1790-1854)

From Andritsena-Peloponnese.

2.Emmanuil Xanthos (1772-1852)

From Patmos-Aegean Islands.

3.Nikolaos Skoufas (1779-1819)

From Komboti, Arta -Epirus.

4.Athanasios Tekelis (Tsakalof) (1788-1851)

From Ioannina- Epirus

all...slavs...

You know just by looking at where they were from one can come to an easy conclusion. Panagiotis (if he in fact was a founding member) is from Peleponesse so obviously he is an Albanian.





The others I have proved more or less what they are. Tsakalov could be half Slav half Vlach or he could be the tri-fecta ArvanitoSlavoVlach He is after all from Joanina, Epirus and through researching epirus was indeed a hotspot for Albanians, Vlachs and Slavs. Epirus even had plenty of Slavic place names. So don't be shocked that Tsakolov or any of the above aren't ethnically "greek". I notice you shut-up since I proved Kolokotronis and Odysseus are Albanians. Again do not be shocked. Look into your true ethnic background and learn to accept the brutal truth that you have been lied to all along.

[The LION will ROAR]

ALBANIANS ARE VLACHS?
According to 12th century historians, the Albanian tribes were ''Vlach speaking''.

According to N.G.L Hammond, Wace and Thompson and T. Winnifrith, the original Albanians were “Vlachs”.

YOU my friend and all your Gheg brotherhood, are IMPOSTERS.

Long live the Vlachs [and Macedonians].
Well, what I am saying is that historians in the 12th century were calling Albanians ''Vlachs'', and ''Vlach speaking''.

They should know, because in the 11th and 12th centuries, there was a large Vlach empire in Epirus and Albania - again, Epirus and Albania are 'geographies', actual physical landscapes - not an 'ethnic group' of its own..

So an Albanian in the year 1280 was an ethnic Vlach. An 'Albanian' in the year 2006 is not. That is the first distinction I draw.

And the key Illyrian tribes that ruled Albania [again, the geography], which modern ''Ottoman Albanians'' claim descent to, were ethnic Vlachs, according to the same historians.

Vlachs have their own names for places. Albanians use Slavic names for most of their places. To me this means that Albanians don't have long roots in the Balkans.

And the “linguistic” link for Ottoman Albanians to ancient Balkan lands is very weak. Modern Albanians have some words that appear in ancient Illyrian [but so do the Russians], and they have other words that appear in Baltic languages [but so do the Romanians], and they have words that appear in ancient Thracian [but so do the Macedonians and Bulgarians], BUT what separates the Albanians from the others are key words that compares their language to the more established language of areas of the east.

Ottoman imports for the most part - with a language admixture that confuses people.

[Pelister]

I ve already answered.
Whole my family were Greek speaking Greeks of MACEDONIA.
They still live here in Macedonia.
Fortunately Greece was the winner of the Macedonian struggle ,as well as Balkan wars 1,2 and WW1...so they weren't kicked off from our land..

To the topic..since som is unable to answer..and you started the topic.
Do you have any evidence which indicates that the 4 founders of Philiki Eteria were non Greeks?

What is important is what the Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians ...etc, thought of each other and themselves.

In ancient times the Greeks considered the Macedonians to be a separate race, and the Macedonians consider themselves to be a separate people from the Greeks.

Now lets jump to 1902- and the situation is precisely the same. Nothing had changed. The New Greeks have just moved into a part of Macedonia for the first time, and given directives to kill the Macedonians where ever they find them and prove to the world that Macedonia is Greek.

That is why Macedonians want their lands back.

[osiris]

so far not one modern greek poster has been able to explain why greek colnies were established in ancient macedonia, and in what other greek land were greek colonies established.

its a waste of time trying to talk sense with most modern greeks about macedonia ancient or modern. maybe when they are able tio confront their immediate past and accept the albanian vlach and slav input into their ethnic mix they will then move on and comprehend the macedonian reality.

i must agknowleadge spartan on this forum as a greek who is willing to listen and not only to lecture.

[Svoliani]

The Ypsilanti family was originally from Trebizond, Black Sea region.
So if we use Drvologic 101 (TM) he was neither Vlach nor Albanian, he has to be a Christian Turk !!! LOL and heres some fine points u missed in Hammonds book.

" In many parts of the mainland co-existence of immmigrants and GREEKS was practised. But not in Epirus, which bore the main brunt. There the Greek pocket of resistence, which preserved the Greek language even when its ruler was Serb or Italian"

" When Isaou, the Italian ruler of Ioannina, passed to the offensive in 1399, he had already won over the Mazarakii(Albanians) and the Malakasaei(perhaps Vlach speaking) and he recruited GREEKS evidently from Zagori, Papingo and Druinoupolis"

- Wow Albanians , Vlach and Greeks mentioned in the same sentence

" In the eyes of the GREEKS the Albanians and those associated with them were fine hunters"

" The most warlike of the Albanians were those described by the GREEKS as living in great mountanous areas."

" Throughout this period bands of Albanian raiders pillaged and destroyed the villages of the Vlachs and the GREEKS in Epirus, northern Pindus, the lakeland of Prespa and Ohrid, and parts of Western Macedonia."

Now please post Races and Mongrels so we can read about the one part of Greece that was still Greek, MACEDONIA.

Like i said , keep em coming!!!!

[TrueMacedonian]

The Ypsilanti family was originally from Trebizond, Black Sea region.
So if we use Drvologic 101 (TM) he was neither Vlach nor Albanian, he has to be a Christian Turk !!! LOL and heres some fine points u missed in Hammonds book.

" In many parts of the mainland co-existence of immmigrants and GREEKS was practised. But not in Epirus, which bore the main brunt. There the Greek pocket of resistence, which preserved the Greek language even when its ruler was Serb or Italian"

" When Isaou, the Italian ruler of Ioannina, passed to the offensive in 1399, he had already won over the Mazarakii(Albanians) and the Malakasaei(perhaps Vlach speaking) and he recruited GREEKS evidently from Zagori, Papingo and Druinoupolis"

- Wow Albanians , Vlach and Greeks mentioned in the same sentence

" In the eyes of the GREEKS the Albanians and those associated with them were fine hunters"

" The most warlike of the Albanians were those described by the GREEKS as living in great mountanous areas."

" Throughout this period bands of Albanian raiders pillaged and destroyed the villages of the Vlachs and the GREEKS in Epirus, northern Pindus, the lakeland of Prespa and Ohrid, and parts of Western Macedonia."

Now please post Races and Mongrels so we can read about the one part of Greece that was still Greek, MACEDONIA.

Like i said , keep em coming!!!!

Sure I will keep them coming. Here's the breakdown of your precious Ypsilanti and his ethnic makeup.






So now Kostas are you gonna tell me to post Race or Mongrel again after reading this? Sure I don't mind. You idiot. If you read what I wrote on Maknews then you would have seen that I acknowledged what was written about Macedonia. So now tell me how this makes your beloved Hospodar Ypsilantis a hellene related to the ancient race of Hellenes???
Trust me you do not want more of what I have. You and Akritas and Toothbrusher will need to put your heads together to form one brain to try and squirm around the truth. And the truth is you have nothing to do with the ancient race of Hellenes. Not even culturally. You are a drone programmed by your government since the 19th century. The truth does indeed hurt you ArvanitoSlavoVlach.

[TrueMacedonian]

As for you Mavrocordatos here's some wiki links since I know you modern "greeks" love wiki links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mavrocordatos

Count Alexander Mavrocordatos, Greek: Αλέξανδρος Μαυροκορδάτος, Aleksandros Mavrokordatos, Romanian: Alexandru Mavrocordat, Turkish: Aleksandro Mavrokordato; ca.1636-1709) was a member of the Greek Mavrocordatos Phanariote family and dragoman to Sultan Mehmed IV in 1673 - notably employed in negotiations with the Habsburg Monarchy during the Great Turkish War.

His father Nicolas Mavrocordatos had been merchant from Chios, a member of the numerous Mavrocordatos clan there, and settled to Istanbul. Young Alexander studied at several schools inside and outside the Ottoman Empire, and was awarded the degree of Doctor of philosophy and medicine at the University of Bologna. He then launched a career in Ottoman administration.

Alexander Mavrocordatos was the person who drew up the Treaty of Karlowitz (1699). He became a secretary of state and was created a Reichsgraf of the Holy Roman Empire. His authority, with that of Amcazade Köprülü Hüseyin Pasha and Rami Paşa, was supreme at the court of sultan Mustafa II, and he did much to ameliorate the condition of Christians in the Ottoman Empire. He was disgraced in 1703, but was later recalled to court by Sultan Ahmed III.

He started a princely branch of the Mavrocordatos family, through his marriage with a Moldavian princess, [1], who was a granddaughter of Prince Alexandru Iliaş and Moldavia (a member of the Muşatin family).

Alexander also wrote several historical, grammatical, and other treatises. His son, Nicholas Mavrocordato, rose to be ultimately appointed grand dragoman to the Divan (1697), and, in 1708, became Prince of Moldavia by order of the Ottoman sultan.


pg.127


And Mavrocordats uncle was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Georges_Caradja

Ioan Gheorghe Caragea. And the Caragea family claim decent from the Comnenian Dynasty and as I have already proved they were Vlach. And if they weren't then they were mixed ArmenianVlach. Either way not ethnically "greek".
I know I know you're gonna bounce up and down and tell me that the book I posted above says '8 greek families' but trust me I can even go so far as to breakdown all of their ethnicities. But I don't think I need to. I think I've dusted your Hospodars "greek" makeup off so you could see what they really are.

[Pelister]

Good work T.M.

Look at Keith Legg's comment at the bottom of the posted page "there was some disagreement over just what the Greek language was ...."

That's a big statement. It supports the thesis that the Greeks were not an ethnic group.

[osiris]

svoliani you are an idiot, true macedonian you are a wannabbee slayer keep up the good work.