Order for prohibition of Macedonian language in Greece 1954!

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    Order for prohibition of Macedonian language in Greece 1954!

    So far unpublished order banning the Macedonian language by the Greek state officially issued to its Foreign and Interior Ministries, as well to all public notaries.








    Macedonians from Lerin prefecture in 1954 in the formulars which they filled to obtain personal documents, writed down that their language was Macedonian. This was concluded by the Administration of Lerin prefecture, which guided by national interests of Greece issued an order to all public notaries in the prefecture to eliminate this deficiency that still remains on the question of language, and always to be stated that it is Greek.
    This is sufficient proof that shows us that despite all the denial of the existence of Macedonians in Greece, the Greek state de facto was aware of their existence. Despite that this document has been issued to all public notaries , it has been sent to the Greek Foreign Ministry and Interior Ministry as well.

    Here is the Macedonian translation of the Greek Order which outlaws the Macedonian language in Greece:

    К.

    ЛЕРИНСКА ПРЕФЕКТУРА Лерин, 11 март 1954

    ЛЕРИНСКА ПРЕФЕКТУРА До

    Бр. на протокол ЕМП.139 Матичарите на леринската префектура

    Затоа што некој од вас, и покрај дадените упатства и очигледно од не знаење на значењето на зборовите, продолжуваат при пополнување на формуларите за статистика (брак, раѓање и смрт) и посебно за раѓање (прашање 11: „ – Кој е мајчиниот јазик на таткото? … на мајката? …) да одговарат без да размислуваат: „македонски“, „албански“, „лазики“ (пондиски дијалкт), „влашки“, „македонски идиом“ и друго, ви даваме до знаење за следните работи, за кои ви предлагаме и ви го потикнуваме вниманието, за да исчезне еднаш и засекогаш оваа неоснованост, која може да предизвика сериозно недоразбирање и искористување од неконтролираната антигрчка пропаганда, како што скоро се случи од комунистичките бандити кои беа потикнати однадвор, кои ги нарекуваа автохотните жители на грчка Македонија – Славомакедонци и друго.

    Јазик се нарекува дијалектот кој има азбука и граматика, и кој се предава официјално во училиштата.

    „Македонски“ јазик, како што е одговорот од некој од вас на горенаведеното прашање, или „словенски“ јазик не постоеше никогаш во грчка Македонија, а тие кои тврдат за обратното се жртви на антигрчката пропаганда, очигледно од не знаење.

    Говорниот идиом од мал процент на жители на Македонија, домородци, воглавно постара популација, не е официјален јазик, но месен јазичен идиом, затоа што ако беше јазик би требало како што се кажа погоре, да има азбука и граматика, т.е. со него да може да се врши коресподенција, точно како што се случува со ГРЧКИОТ, ФРАНЦУСКИОТ, АНГЛИСКИОТ и други официјални јазици.

    Од друга страна, ви е познато на сите вас дека надворешните комунистички бандити по нередба на нивните патрони, Словените, наметнаа во текот на окупацијата и во Граѓанската војна која следеше невидливи обиди за да ги престават автохтоните (домородците) жители на Македонија како „Славомакедонци“ и говорниот идиом од мал број на жители, како „славомакедонски“ јазик. Но тоа преставува измислица на агентите на Словените, комунистичките бандити, затоа што основано и официјално утврдено е дека говорниот месен јазичен идиом од минимален број на жители, е збир на зборови од разни јазици (грчки, турски, латински и други), меѓу кои на прво место е грчкиот јазик и во голем процент.

    Ова е испитано од голем број на грчки филолози и странци, и е елаборирано во некои признати научни списанија, но е лесно да се испита и од било кого, доволно да го знае значењето на зборовите.

    Но независно од сето погоре кажано, дури иако месниот јазичен идиом се сметаше како јазик, не е возможно овој некогаш да преставува доказ за етничка состав на населението на грчка Македонија, кој смета како најголема навреда да се нарекува некогаш (славомакедонски народ), а не чисто грчки и да го заборави неговото историско потекло, кое почнува од античките борци – Македонци, кои ја составија војската и културниот поход на неспоредливиот низ вековите филозоф – Аристотел од Стагира на Халкидики, чии дела се напишани на грчки јазик. Но освен историското потекло на автохтоните жители на грчка Македонија, тие можат да ја истакнат нивната голема љубов кон татковината, херојство и жртви и нивното трпение, кои никогаш не може да се посомнева.

    Кога така стојат работите, мора составувањето на формуларите во иднина да се прави со големо внимание. Последователно ќе се смета како јазик (на таткото или на мајката) на тој на кој им се предаваше во училиштата, т.е. грчкиот и со кој кореспондираат меѓу себе, и не на оние месни јазични идиоми без јазични правила. Значи, на прашањето кој е таковиот или мајчинскиот јазик ќе се пишува: Г Р Ч К И.

    Соопштување ПРЕФЕКТ

    1/ Министерство за надворешни работи К. Тусилдис

    Прва Генерална управа

    Управа на институцијата

    Атина

    2/ Генерална управа на северна Грција

    Управа за внатрешни работи

    Солун Точен препис

    Шеф на Првата управа
    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #2
    On the newly acquired territory pf macedonia it'is evident that policies were made in haste.The greeks seem to be doing it without even realizing what they were doing.The greeks by their own invention called the macedonians slavo phones & ignored the fact that they called themselves macedonians.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      #3
      I would like to ask some of you guys/girls for a help to translate this document in English as well!
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • Daskalot
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 4345

        #4
        Why have you watermarked the pictures Bratot?

        Here is the original thread which I posted back in February: Mother tongue, MACEDONIAN, Lerin(Florina) 1954!

        And here is the original picture of page one:
        Macedonian Truth Organisation

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          #5
          i tried to google translate but no luck.
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • Bratot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2855

            #6
            Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
            Why have you watermarked the pictures Bratot?

            Here is the original thread which I posted back in February: Mother tongue, MACEDONIAN, Lerin(Florina) 1954!

            And here is the original picture of page one:
            I got the original photos as well as Nova Zora did before couple of months, but the publication of the article with full translation of the original document made by the author appears for a first time on Spark. Also as you could notice that we are talking about two photos showing the complete document.
            However, the watermarks on the photos are used because of previous experience with few other websites/newspapers who refused to cite the name of the author or the source and ignored our reaction to do so after. That is the only favour we ask from others for sharing all content on the site.
            Last edited by Bratot; 05-24-2011, 09:55 AM.
            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

            Comment

            • Daskalot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 4345

              #7
              Originally posted by Bratot View Post
              . I got the original photos as well as Nova Zora did before couple of months, but the publication of the article with full translation of the original document made by the author appears for a first time on Spark.
              However, the watermarks on the photos are used because of previous experience with few other websites/newspapers who refused to cite the name of the author or the source and ignored our reaction to do so after. That is the only favour we ask from others for sharing all content on the site.
              Strange that you hold that opinion Bratot, how many times have you quoted material from MTO and never given the source of your material.
              Findings by TM and myself which have never been attributed to our names by yourself. Should we start watermarking all of our findings as well?

              Please share a copy of page 2 without the watermarks, I need it for archival purposes.
              Macedonian Truth Organisation

              Comment

              • Makedonska_Kafana
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2010
                • 2642

                #8
                Originally posted by George S. View Post
                i tried to google translate but no luck.

                Lerin Florina Prefecture, March 11, 1954

                Florina Prefecture Up

                Nr. Protocol EMP.139 Maticharite the Lerin prefecture

                Because some of you, despite the instructions given and apparently of no knowledge of the meaning of words continue in filling in the forms of Statistics (marriage, birth and death) and especially birth (question 11: "- Who is the mother tongue of father ? ... mother? ...) to respond without thinking: "Macedonian", "Albanian", "Lazic (pondiski dijalkt)," Vlach "," Macedonian idiom "and others, gives clear about the following, which We recommend and encourage your attention to disappear once and for all the unfounded, which can cause serious misunderstanding and uncontrolled use of anti-Greek propaganda, as I just came from the Communist bandits who were potiknati outside, who called on Greek citizens avtohotnite Macedonia - Macedonian Slav and more.

                Language is called a dialect alphabet and grammar, and who taught formally in schools.

                "Macedonian" language, as is the response from some of you the above question, or "Slavic" language never existed in Greek Macedonia, and those who claim to be victims of reverse antigrchkata propaganda, apparently of no knowledge.

                Idiom spoken by a small percentage of the population of Macedonia, natives generally older population, not an official language, but meaty linguistic idiom, because if the language was supposed as said above, there are alphabet and grammar, ie with it can be done correspondence, just as happens with Greek, French, English and other official languages.

                On the other hand, you know all of you that external communist bandits Mon neredba their patrons, Slavs, imposed during the occupation and civil war that followed the invisible attempts to cease autochthonous (indigenous) inhabitants of Macedonia as "Macedonian Slav" and idiom spoken by a small number of inhabitants, as slavomakedonski "language. But it represents an invention of the agents of the Slavs, the Communist bandits, as established and officially established that meaty language spoken idiom of a minimum number of inhabitants, is a set of words from different languages ​​(Greek, Turkish, Latin, etc.), including the first place is the Greek language and a large percentage.

                This is examined from a number of Greek philologists and foreigners, and is elaborated in some recognized scientific journals, but is easily examined by anyone and is enough to know the meaning of words.

                But regardless of all the above, even though the local language idiom was regarded as a language, it is impossible ever to present this evidence for the ethnic composition of the population of Greek Macedonia, which considered as the greatest insult to be called once (slavomakedonski people), not purely Greek and to forget its historical origin, which begins from the ancient fighters - Macedonians, who have composed the military and cultural conquest of incomparable philosopher through the ages - from Aristotle Stageira of Halkidiki, whose works were written in Greek. But besides the historical origin of the indigenous inhabitants of Greek Macedonia, they can emphasize their great love for the country, heroism and sacrifice, and their patience, which can never be suspected.

                When that's the way things have compiling applications in the future be made ​​with great care. Subsequently considered as a language (the father or mother) of that which they taught in schools, ie Greek and that correspond to each other, and those local language idioms without language rules. So, the question of who is takoviot or a mother tongue will be written: G P K and H.

                Notify prefect

                1 / Ministry of Foreign Affairs K.. Tusildis

                First General Administration

                Administration of the Institution

                Athens

                2 / General Administration of Northern Greece

                Department of Interior

                Thessaloniki exact copy

                Head of the First Administration
                http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                Macedonia for the Macedonians

                Comment

                • Bratot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2855

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                  Strange that you hold that opinion Bratot, how many times have you quoted material from MTO and never given the source of your material.
                  Findings by TM and myself which have never been attributed to our names by yourself. Should we start watermarking all of our findings as well?

                  Please share a copy of page 2 without the watermarks, I need it for archival purposes.
                  I could agree with you if I haven't already asked, several times, for a simple banner of MTO to put on the site, that's one thing. Also I have offered you to write the articles as well, but no one showed interest in doing that. So Daskale, if somebody else write the article and somebody else do the translation of it, could you really say that someone has attributed his name unrightfully? Everything that I got from TM is according what we've both set before. And I don't understand why the watermarks provoked such reaction when there isn't 'MY' name on it nor I have done anything like that with the materials provided by you, moreover that I'm not even the author of this article. It was enough just to ask for the second page but it seems that we are not enough honest to eachother for chosing such solutions. When I return home I will provide the second page as you asked.
                  The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                  Comment

                  • Daskalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 4345

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    I could agree with you if I haven't already asked, several times, for a simple banner of MTO to put on the site, that's one thing. Also I have offered you to write the articles as well, but no one showed interest in doing that.
                    Brate, one should give credit where credit is due, post a link or some other reference to where you obtained the source material from if you yourself have not put in the work to search for it.
                    Placing a banner on your website or if we write articles does not change the fact that you do not give credit when it is so simple to post a link to where you have sourced the material from.

                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    So Daskale, if somebody else write the article and somebody else do the translation of it, could you really say that someone has attributed his name unrightfully?
                    Brate, writing and translating an article is all fine, but if the source material was not obtained by you or your colleagues you should give credit to the person/s providing this material, as you yourself said, it is the least one could do.

                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    Everything that I got from TM is according what we've both set before.
                    Ok

                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    And I don't understand why the watermarks provoked such reaction when there isn't 'MY' name on it nor I have done anything like that with the materials provided by you, moreover that I'm not even the author of this article.
                    I know that you are not the author of the article.
                    But the work that your colleague has put in is the translation work as far as I understand it, or has he searched for this document and has he scanned it himself, if not then the source material is not his work or doing. Then the source material should be credited to the person/s providing it. And your colleague should be given credit for the translation work.


                    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                    It was enough just to ask for the second page but it seems that we are not enough honest to eachother for chosing such solutions. When I return home I will provide the second page as you asked.
                    I was simply curious when I saw that you had watermarked the documents. I asked myself why do this? If the purpose is not to claim copyright and ownership of the documents provided, why do it?
                    And you gave me the answer, you as a website and a person/s want credit for the work that you have put in, fully understandable, but remember do as you preach.
                    I am honest with you, but remember it is of great importance to have the documents in as original shape as possible, for archival purposes and the like.

                    Macedonian Truth Organisation

                    Comment

                    • Daskalot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 4345

                      #11
                      Here is the translation of page 1 into English which Agamoi provided back in February.
                      Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
                      OK teacher,here is a word for word translation:

                      Prefecture of Florina Florina,11 March 1954
                      To the registrars of the prefecture of Florina

                      Because some of you,despite the instructions that have been given and obviously due to ignorance of the meaning of words,continue when composing the statistical accounts (marriages,births,deaths) and especially the births (question 11:”what’s the father’s native tongue?...of the mother?....) to answer thoughtlessly: “Macedonian”,”Albanian”,”Lazian”,”Vlach”,the “Macedonian idiom” e.t.c,we make known to you the following,on which we recommend to focus your attention,so that this absurdity will vanish,which might become a cause of serious misunderstanding and exploitation by the lurking antihellenic propaganda,as it recently happened with the communist bandits that were motivated by foreign agendas,who called the indigenous inhabitants of Greek Macedonia Slavomacedonians e.t.c.
                      Language is called the dialect,that has alphabet and grammar,which is officially taught in the schools.”Macedonian” language,as the answer of some of you to the above question is,or “Slavic” language did never exist in Greek Macedonia,those that claim the opposite being victims of antihellenic propaganda,apparently due to ignorance.The idiom spoken by a small percentage of the inhabitants of Macedonia,natives and elderly people mainly,is not an official language but an idiom of local speech,because if it was a language,it ought,as it has been stressed above,to have an alphabet and grammar,that is the correspondence should be conducted in that language,exactly as it happens with Greek,English,French and other official languages.
                      After all,it is known to all of you that the motivated by foreign agendas communist bandits,under the commands of their Slav patrons,tried desperate attempts during the foreign occupation and the subsequent bandit war (civil war) to present the indigenous (native) inhabitants of Macedonia as “Slavomacedonians”,and the idiom spoken by a small number of them as “Slavomacedonian language”.
                      This is,however,an invention of the Slav agents,communist bandits,because it has been reasonably and officially ascertained that the local speech idiom spoken by very few inhabitants,is an admixture of words from various languages (Greek,Turkish,Latin e.t.c.) amongst whom the Greek language occupies the most prominent place and to the greatest degree.
                      This has been examined by great linguists,both Greeks and foreigners and is analyzed in their worthy writings,and it’s also easy to anyone to examine it,if he knows the etymology of the words.
                      Regardless of all the above though,and even if the local speech idiom could be considered as language,it would never be possible for it to form a testimony for the ethnological composition of the population of Greek Macedonia,which considers as the greatest of all insults being called by some other name (Slavomacedonian) and not genuine Greek and to forget its historical origin,which is traced back to the ancient Macedonian warriors,who formed the army during the cultural campaign…
                      Macedonian Truth Organisation

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                        Brate, one should give credit where credit is due, post a link or some other reference to where you obtained the source material from if you yourself have not put in the work to search for it.
                        OK Daskale if that's the case only it will be corrected.

                        Placing a banner on your website or if we write articles does not change the fact that you do not give credit when it is so simple to post a link to where you have sourced the material from.
                        It does for me, because it would be much easier to put ready material text+photos+translation, but obviously nobody want to do that, first of all it's very time costing, second it demands solid language knowledge, third many times you have to further extend the topic by additional research.

                        And then the documented material is getting on real value and credibility.
                        That's why I put efforts into making these documents reach out of blogs and forums only.

                        There is no article without the name or pseudonym of the author.

                        Brate, writing and translating an article is all fine, but if the source material was not obtained by you or your colleagues you should give credit to the person/s providing this material, as you yourself said, it is the least one could do.
                        Ok, but this wasn't the case on this thread. You certainly could pick up a different way to settle this.

                        I was simply curious when I saw that you had watermarked the documents. I asked myself why do this? If the purpose is not to claim copyright and ownership of the documents provided, why do it?
                        And you gave me the answer, you as a website and a person/s want credit for the work that you have put in, fully understandable, but remember do as you preach.
                        This wasn't some printscreen from a google books and if I arranged such document to be exclusively published on the site I don't think that by making a little marketing of the site from time to time is a bad thing. Especially if I'm not getting help from anyone.
                        Additionally promoting the site in any posibile way will help all of the articles published there to become more read.


                        I am honest with you, but remember it is of great importance to have the documents in as original shape as possible, for archival purposes and the like.
                        I understand that and I actively contribute.
                        But making such scene on a public forum wasn't necessary at all. Especially by causing many different emotions which could be avoided by a simple message and everything would be settled down.


                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Bratot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2855

                          #13
                          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                          Comment

                          • Daskalot
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 4345

                            #14
                            Fala mnogu Brate.
                            It will be archived in an offline database and printed out as a paper copy to. For future reference and study.
                            Macedonian Truth Organisation

                            Comment

                            • momce
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 426

                              #15
                              Its a state propaganda document basically. Interesting one period they couldnt even agree what greek language was.

                              Comment

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