National Census' in Greece

[Soldier of Macedon]

That is a record from the 1920 Greek Census. Are you denying this, are you going against what your state has claimed in this instance, or are you being a moron again?

[The LION will ROAR]

By Ljupcho Murgoski
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/2236/4...

Dnevnik, Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Dragan Mitrevski, a resident of Prilep, is in possession of an old atlas which indicates that in 1921 in Greece there were 500,000 residents that were declared Macedonians.

In Greece in 1921, 500 thousand Macedonians were declared, who represented 8.8% of the entire population in Greece. This is recorded in a Universal atlas published in Austria which the Prilep resident Dragan Mitrevski owns. This is yet another document which proves that the Macedonians are not a tree without roots and blows away the assertions that Macedonia and the Macedonians were a Communist-International creation.

“The relevance of this document is huge considering that for years our neighbours have been insisting that there is no Macedonian minority living in their respective states. This document weighs heavily against our neighbour’s claims not only because of its existence but because it was prepared by a reputable and eminent author in an independent state,” says Dragan Mitrevski.“The universal atlas also shows that in Yugoslavia, then Serbia, there were 600 thousand Macedonians or 5% of the country’s entire population. The atlas also shows that Austria recognized Macedonians living in Bulgaria but did not show a separate count only that there was a combined population of 4 million Macedonians and Bulgarians living in Bulgaria. It is interesting to note that on the Albanian flag there is no two headed eagle, but it is red-black with a white pentagram,” says Dragan Mitrevski.

Fifteen years ago Mitrevski discovered this book by chance. He approached a person burning old books in the center of Prilep and asked if he could have some.“I have always been a collector of old books and was lucky to have found this old atlas,” says Mitrevski.

Most important about this atlas is the source it uses which comes from a census carried out in Greece on December 19, 1920. The results of that census were never officially released by Greece but there was much discussion about them because for the first time they included information on the so called “New Territories”.

In the census information included were questions like “What is your mother language?”,“What language do you speak at home?” and “If your mother tongue is not Greek, do you understand Greek?” It is sad that the Greek state only released census information on the “old territories” of Greece and not on the occupied territories (among which is 51% of Macedonia) where there is information on both language and religion.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Greek census recorded (with an altered terminology) 'Makedonoslave' after the refugees in 1928.


But also called it Makedonoglosson (Macedonian speakers), FACT:

[Soldier of Macedon]

By Ljupcho Murgoski
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/2236/4...

Dnevnik, Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Dragan Mitrevski, a resident of Prilep, is in possession of an old atlas which indicates that in 1921 in Greece there were 500,000 residents that were declared Macedonians.

In Greece in 1921, 500 thousand Macedonians were declared, who represented 8.8% of the entire population in Greece. This is recorded in a Universal atlas published in Austria which the Prilep resident Dragan Mitrevski owns. This is yet another document which proves that the Macedonians are not a tree without roots and blows away the assertions that Macedonia and the Macedonians were a Communist-International creation.

“The relevance of this document is huge considering that for years our neighbours have been insisting that there is no Macedonian minority living in their respective states. This document weighs heavily against our neighbour’s claims not only because of its existence but because it was prepared by a reputable and eminent author in an independent state,” says Dragan Mitrevski.“The universal atlas also shows that in Yugoslavia, then Serbia, there were 600 thousand Macedonians or 5% of the country’s entire population. The atlas also shows that Austria recognized Macedonians living in Bulgaria but did not show a separate count only that there was a combined population of 4 million Macedonians and Bulgarians living in Bulgaria. It is interesting to note that on the Albanian flag there is no two headed eagle, but it is red-black with a white pentagram,” says Dragan Mitrevski.

Fifteen years ago Mitrevski discovered this book by chance. He approached a person burning old books in the center of Prilep and asked if he could have some.“I have always been a collector of old books and was lucky to have found this old atlas,” says Mitrevski.

Most important about this atlas is the source it uses which comes from a census carried out in Greece on December 19, 1920. The results of that census were never officially released by Greece but there was much discussion about them because for the first time they included information on the so called “New Territories”.

In the census information included were questions like “What is your mother language?”,“What language do you speak at home?” and “If your mother tongue is not Greek, do you understand Greek?” It is sad that the Greek state only released census information on the “old territories” of Greece and not on the occupied territories (among which is 51% of Macedonia) where there is information on both language and religion.

I think somebody had some more information on this, DASKALOT, you're the man of many resources, can you help us out here a little more?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here are some of the pages to statistics from the above atlas (not sure why some have come out in the incorrect angle as all of them are in the same angle as files, will see if I can fix it):









The Macedonians are mentioned seperately along with the rest of the south Slavic-speaking peoples, but grouped together with the Bulgarians in some instances, just like Serbs, Croats and Slovenes are grouped together.

[Daskalot]

Great topic which needs to be read again!

[George S.]

i think some of this stuff is excellent material for reference purposes that could be archived.

[Sweet Sixteen]

1951 Census Language and Religion

(This is a Google Translation from Greek to English)

Of the 7,632,801 7,297,827 residents said the Greek mother tongue, up 95.6%. Turkish stated 179,895, of whom 87,654 were Christians of all denomination and 92,219 Muslims. Other languages with a significant population was Slavic 41,017, Vlach 39,885, Arvanite 22,736 and Pomak 18,671 speakers. Other languages do not exceed 10.00 speakers. Overall, foreign language speakers amounted to 334,923.

Christians make up the vast majority of the population. Specifically, 7,472,559 indicated Orthodox doctrine, 28,430 Catholics, 7,034 Protestants, while 5,643 said another doctrine. Muslims are the largest minority religious group with 112,665, ie 1.5 % of the total population. The Greeks were 6,325 Jews, clearly less than the pre- war census of 1928 (72,791). It is estimated that out of 77,000 Greek Jews on the eve of the war, 60,000 ended up in concentration camps. The death rate, which amounted to 77-78 % of pre-war Jewish population, was one of the largest in Europe.

----------------------------------------------------------

Analytical results show distribution per district and combination of mother language and religion. In short, almost all Slavic polulation is Christian and located in Macedonia (40,170) and more specifically:

Drama 380, Hemathia 2,200, Thessalonike 750, Cavala 23, Kastoria 1,000, Kilkis 2,100, Kozani 390, Pella 9,400, Pieria 2, Serres 5,100, Florina 14,500, Chalkidike 17, Mt Athos 100.

They are located in urban areas (2,900), semi-urban (4,300) and rural (33,000).

The above was about mother language. It then has analytical results for usually spoken language that reduces Slavic for Macedonia to 10,300 people. Data is given again per district. For instance in Florina the number of 14,500 drops to 5,600. Lastly, data is given per sex, the previous number of 5,600 Slavic speakers in Florina is mostly women (1,900 men, 3,700 women)

-----------------------

Regarding usually spoken language the figures of the first paragraph for Greece change as follows:
Greek 7,460,000, Turkish 120,000, Pomak 18,000, Vlach 10,600, Slavic 10,300, Albanian 7,800, Gypsy 4,100, Armenian 3,700 etc.

---------------------------------

You can download a pdf file (in Greek and French). Most of the above data can be found between pages 200-300 (it's about 600 pages)

http://dlib.statistics.gr/Book/GRESYE_02_0101_00029.pdf

-----------------------------------------

[Risto the Great]

Why do you think the "slavic" speaking population resides entirely in the Macedonian region S16? There is a reason why they refer to themselves as "dopi". They define the region.

I just realised this was done in 1951. Which would firmly place this in the propaganda category. As would any other time in Greece actually.

Ignoring the Macedonians for a moment, I find the number of Albanian speakers laughable.

Including the Macedonian region, the mother tongue of the recent former Turkish national immigrants (only 20 years earlier) would have been included as Greek. Which is laughable given they had to go to school to learn the modern Greek language.

Ahhh, one generation of ethnocide and look what happens.

Meaningless statistics S16.

[Vangelovski]

Including the Macedonian region, the mother tongue of the recent former Turkish national immigrants (only 20 years earlier) would have been included as Greek. Which is laughable given they had to go to school to learn the modern Greek language.

It would be interesting to know how many of them continue to speak Turkish at home.

[Sweet Sixteen]

Including the Macedonian region, the mother tongue of the recent former Turkish national immigrants (only 20 years earlier) would have been included as Greek. Which is laughable given they had to go to school to learn the modern Greek language.

The Turkophone Christian refugees (overall Greece) are about half of the Turkophone population (the other half are the Muslim Turkophones of Thrace). Distinctions between mother and spoken laguage partly answer your remarks. More details per district can be found in the pdf file. Beware, it's 130Mb.

[Risto the Great]

It would be interesting to know how many of them continue to speak Turkish at home.

Some of them spoke Turkish, others spoke other Hellenic languages which most honest Greeks would say they can barely understand.

Either way, we have all seen the photograph of the little former Turkish nationals who had to go to classes to learn how to speak Greek .... who now curiously call themselves Macedonian.

[George S.]

I don't believe a word from SS that the stats were doctored & the censuses were manipulated.Think about the official figures in the 11912-1913 Balkan wars prior to that the Macedonian population was 10 times the greek one in the Aegean area.If greeks were 100k then the Macedonian majority was more ten times that more than a million.Any oter figures after that were tainted as they stopped people speaking Macedonian,changed toponyms had population exchanges with turkey,Seriously do peole think Greece or Bulgaria is going to tell the truth about their demography??really.When they the slav population is 41,000 I would say its more than that probably ten times that.Its to greeces advantage to understate how many Macedonians there are.