Some deluded grks now claiming Ottoman Empire was a Greek Muslim Empire lol

[TrueMacedonian]

YouTube - OTTOMAN EMPIRE= A GREEK ISLAMIC EMPIRE NOT TURKISH
The video itself is not the culprit. It's who posted the video with extra written info. Here's what is written:

THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS NEVER A TURKISH EMPIRE AT ALL.THIS EMPIRE WAS CREATED AND RULED BY GREEK MUSLIMS WHO HAD ADOPTED PERSIAN AND ARABIC CULTURE TO A VERY VERY POWERFUL POINT WHERE IT WASN'T EVEN A JOKE AND WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM IN ANATOLIA AFTER THE BYZANTINE AND SELJUK WARS.THE VERY SAME TURKS LATER BECAME A MINORITY IN THIS EMPIRE, GREEK MUSLIMS VERY SOON OUTNUMBERED THE VERY SAME SELJUK TURKS.THIS EMPIRE STRETCHED FROM THE BALKANS TO NORTHERN EUROPE TO THE MIDDLE EAST AND TO NORTHERN AFRICA.THE GREEK MUSLIMS WERE ALWAYS FRIENDLY AND NICE TO THEIR FORMER PATRIOTS THE GREEK CHRISTIANS UNTIL THE GREAT WESTERN POWERS RUSSIA ENGLAND AND FRANCE MADE THEM BOTH ENEMIES IN 1821 .TURKS ALBANIANS MACEDONIANS BULGARIANS SERBS ROMANIANS EGYPTIANS ARABS ALGERIANS JORDANIANS LEBANESE SYRIANS PALESTINIANS AND JEWS AND THE REST OF THE MUSLIM ARAB WORLD WERE RULED BY THE OTTOMAN GREEK MUSLIMS. THE GREEK MUSLIMS ALWAYS SAW THESE MINORITIES AS ENEMIES ESPECIALLY THE ARABS AND THE ARMENIANS.UNTIL IN 1908 WHEN THE TURKISH PEOPLE DECIDED TO REVOLT AGAINST THE GREEK MUSLIMS AND PUT AN END TO THEIR OTTOMAN DYNASTY IN 1923 LEAD BY THEIR TURKISH LEADER MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK.HERE ARE SOME LINKS OF THE OTTOMAN MUSLIM GREEKS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Mu... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category... http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCs...

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

TURKS ALBANIANS MACEDONIANS BULGARIANS SERBS ROMANIANS EGYPTIANS ARABS ALGERIANS JORDANIANS LEBANESE SYRIANS PALESTINIANS AND JEWS AND THE REST OF THE MUSLIM ARAB WORLD WERE RULED BY THE OTTOMAN GREEK MUSLIMS.

I guess the greeks were never Macedonians, we also existed as a separate nation to his view.

Has anyone offered the blue pill to this clown?

[George S.]

if people can't understand that greeks beleived in their "Myths" which were outright lies.These yyths are made up to help them in their beleif systems,THe latest myth buster by tm is that the grks will just about say anything.The Grks have lost any credibility as to who they really are.I'm sure the turks will get a huge laugh when they see this video.The support we have from the croatian community in the u.s is nothing short of amazing,More or less they have told them to srop the BS & accept Macedonia into nato.The grks seem to have a grandiose plan to take over macedonia.If they do that then we should muster up all the strength we have & give them a good hiding when the time comes.
The little book of greek lies shows what a stupid bunch of arseholes the greeks are.

[julie]

That is really funny. Greece, embrace your true Turkish origins , lol

[indigen]

The widely supported view of Ethnic Turks of today's Turkey being of predominantly ancient Anatolian stock is scientifically backed by genetics. Given that point, interpretation as to who were the pre-Ottoman Anatolians ("at times the backbone of the "Byzantine Empire") allows for some ambiguity and may not seem to be that far fetched in this case.

Genetic input of the Turko-Mongol Seljuks and other related tribes is minimal in comparison to native Anatolian stock (which today has significant Balkan genetic input of various dates). Thus if "Greeks" are allowed to claim "Byzantine" Empire as a Greek one (state or nation), then they can make this ambit case, IMO.

[Onur]

That is really funny. Greece, embrace your true Turkish origins , lol

Nah, i got better idea;
They better announce that the Mohammad was an immigrant from Sparta and true representative of Hellenes, the chosen race by God even surpassing Jews on that!!!


Actually that would be a good idea for them if they would announce this at early 19th century, so they could fill the 600 year old gap in medieval era for their so-called 3000 year old Hellenic history

Maybe the Greek youtube user wanted to say that all the people in Turkey are islamized Greeks. I heard that many times before. There are considerable amount of people in Greece who says that.

[TrueMacedonian]

Onur said;

Maybe the Greek youtube user wanted to say that all the people in Turkey are islamized Greeks. I heard that many times before. There are considerable amount of people in Greece who says that.

Onur I have heard this one myself as well that one makes me laugh very much.

[Onur]

The widely supported view of Ethnic Turks of today's Turkey being of predominantly ancient Anatolian stock is scientifically backed by genetics. Given that point, interpretation as to who were the pre-Ottoman Anatolians ("at times the backbone of the "Byzantine Empire") allows for some ambiguity and may not seem to be that far fetched in this case.

Genetic input of the Turko-Mongol Seljuks and other related tribes is minimal in comparison to native Anatolian stock (which today has significant Balkan genetic input of various dates). Thus if "Greeks" are allowed to claim "Byzantine" Empire as a Greek one (state or nation), then they can make this ambit case, IMO.

Dude, whole idea of this view based on the fallacy of 19th century invention of "Turk=Mongol" theory.

The thing is, only about 3-4% of people in Turkey has Mongol genes(mainly haplogroup C and maybe Q) and rest %97 has caucasoid dna according to the nation wide tests. This 3-4% is even lower than some central european countries, much lower than Russia and Ukraine. So these "Turk=Mongol" supporters says "This is the proof of Turkish people are not Turks cuz they are not Mongol but Caucasoid"

This is B.S cuz i wonder what`s their explanation for Azerbaijan, where there is no more than 5-6% Mongol dna again. If people in Turkey are ancient Greeks then who are Azeris? Turkified Armenians or Greeks again? Even Uyghurs in China has only 35% Mongolic dna but %65 has mainly R1a dna which is common in Europeans. Who are these 65% R1a Uyghurs then? Not a single European society gone as far as to the east Turkistan for 2500 years since Alexander the Great. So these 65% of Uyghurs are Turkified Macedonians?


Beside genetics, there is another thing. Before 19th century when there was no widespread education, an assimilation of majority by a 3-4% of minority was not possible. There was only two way for this in that era; Either 3% minority should massacre the majority to reduce their numbers or there should be mass migration of local inhabitants. In 1000 years of Turkish history in Anatolia, none of this happened but in 1-2-3-4th Crusades b4 14th century, the Latins caused local christian Anatolians to migrate out and most orthodox christians have been butchered by them. Then even Genghis Khan came to Anatolia too, caused another havoc in early 13th century. We very well know that after these events, Anatolia was kinda deserted place. This caused Turks to conquer it easily except tiny Byzantine capital of european side of bosphorus in Istanbul.

So, without widespread education system b4 19th century, how come 3% minority turkifies the local Anatolian population???? Besides that, there was never an assimilation policy like that neither in Seljuks nor in Ottoman Empire. If they had, than why they did this in Anatolia but not in Balkans? Dont forget that Turks ruled up to the Vienna for about 350-550 years. If Turks was so expert in Turkification in your eyes then tell me why we didn't transport millions of Tatars from Crimea, another million from Azerbaijan, Anatolia to forcibly Turkify all of Balkans??? Do you think, this could be difficult thing to do for the mighty Ottoman Empire??? Lets say they couldn't fully Turkify you and Jesus saved your race, then tell me how %98 of Balkans remained as christians for 600 years? Do you think it would be difficult for the Turkish empire to convert all of you as muslims in medieval era while western europeans dying cuz of plague, killing cats and women as being witches, burning Jews alive????


When we return to the Uyghurs and other Turkic people in central asia, there is a record of mass migration of local populations and massacre in 13th century by Genghis Khan of Mongols and later by Chinese oppression. So, most probably this was the reason of 30-35% mongol people among central Asian Turkic speakers. This actually means that these 35% Mongols among Uyghurs are probably Turkified Mongolians or Chinese who were leftovers of Genghis Khan era as minority among Turkic Uyghur people.

Onur I have heard this one myself as well that one makes me laugh very much.

Ohh yes, see above. Indigen thinks it should be possible too

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

I'm pretty sure they will claim to be illyrians soon.

[Risto the Great]

THE GREEK MUSLIMS WERE ALWAYS FRIENDLY AND NICE TO THEIR FORMER PATRIOTS THE GREEK CHRISTIANS UNTIL THE GREAT WESTERN POWERS RUSSIA ENGLAND AND FRANCE MADE THEM BOTH ENEMIES IN 1821 .

So Russia, England and France made them enemies by fighting on behalf of Greeks and handing them a nation. Interesting. Sounds like this buffoon wants to re-kindle the "love-in" or "flower power era" that was Ottoman times.

[indigen]

Dude, whole idea of this view based on the fallacy of 19th century invention of "Turk=Mongol" theory.

The thing is, only about 3-4% of people in Turkey has Mongol genes(mainly haplogroup C and maybe Q) and rest %97 has caucasoid dna according to the nation wide tests. This 3-4% is even lower than some central european countries, much lower than Russia and Ukraine. So these "Turk=Mongol" supporters says "This is the proof of Turkish people are not Turks cuz they are not Mongol but Caucasoid"

This is B.S cuz i wonder what`s their explanation for Azerbaijan, where there is no more than 5-6% Mongol dna again. If people in Turkey are ancient Greeks then who are Azeris? Turkified Armenians or Greeks again? Even Uyghurs in China has only 35% Mongolic dna but %65 has mainly R1a dna which is common in Europeans. Who are these 65% R1a Uyghurs then? Not a single European society gone as far as to the east Turkistan for 2500 years since Alexander the Great. So these 65% of Uyghurs are Turkified Macedonians?


Beside genetics, there is another thing. Before 19th century when there was no widespread education, an assimilation of majority by a 3-4% of minority was not possible. There was only two way for this in that era; Either 3% minority should massacre the majority to reduce their numbers or there should be mass migration of local inhabitants. In 1000 years of Turkish history in Anatolia, none of this happened but in 1-2-3-4th Crusades b4 14th century, the Latins caused local christian Anatolians to migrate out and most orthodox christians have been butchered by them. Then even Genghis Khan came to Anatolia too, caused another havoc in early 13th century. We very well know that after these events, Anatolia was kinda deserted place. This caused Turks to conquer it easily except tiny Byzantine capital of european side of bosphorus in Istanbul.

So, without widespread education system b4 19th century, how come 3% minority turkifies the local Anatolian population???? Besides that, there was never an assimilation policy like that neither in Seljuks nor in Ottoman Empire. If they had, than why they did this in Anatolia but not in Balkans? Dont forget that Turks ruled up to the Vienna for about 350-550 years. If Turks was so expert in Turkification in your eyes then tell me why we didn't transport millions of Tatars from Crimea, another million from Azerbaijan, Anatolia to forcibly Turkify all of Balkans??? Do you think, this could be difficult thing to do for the mighty Ottoman Empire??? Lets say they couldn't fully Turkify you and Jesus saved your race, then tell me how %98 of Balkans remained as christians for 600 years? Do you think it would be difficult for the Turkish empire to convert all of you as muslims in medieval era while western europeans dying cuz of plague, killing cats and women as being witches, burning Jews alive????


When we return to the Uyghurs and other Turkic people in central asia, there is a record of mass migration of local populations and massacre in 13th century by Genghis Khan of Mongols and later by Chinese oppression. So, most probably this was the reason of 30-35% mongol people among central Asian Turkic speakers. This actually means that these 35% Mongols among Uyghurs are probably Turkified Mongolians or Chinese who were leftovers of Genghis Khan era as minority among Turkic Uyghur people.

Ohh yes, see above. Indigen thinks it should be possible too

"Dude", not only possible, I could claim them for the Macedonians, too! :-)
What happened to the Phrygians - Brigi? FYI, there was (and most likely still is) a strong Macedonian political current that claimed (claims) the "Byzantine" Empire as a Macedonian state, thus the ambit assertion can be equally, if not more strongly, made on a similar basis. :-)

ИМАЈЌИ предвид дека во периодот од 866 до 1057 година од нашата ера, Македонците на Византиското Царство му дале една цела династија на македонски цареви (осум императори и две императорки),

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2348

The above is only a mild version of the hard-line Macedonian claim on the "Byzantine" Empire.

[George S.]

onur aren't the turks descended from ishmael of which there is no comparison with the greeks.The greeks are from the sudan subharan desert Africa.Perhaps the greeks should really understand their roots & go back to the subharan desert.

[Onur]

"Dude", not only possible, I could claim them for the Macedonians, too! :-)

What happened to the Phrygians - Brigi? FYI, there was (and most likely still is) a strong Macedonian political current that claimed (claims) the "Byzantine" Empire as a Macedonian state, thus the ambit assertion can be equally, if not more strongly, made on a similar basis. :-)

Well, this is acceptable to some degree cuz Byzantines ruled by Macedonian, Armenian monarchies too and we know that the official language of Byzantine empire was Latin `till 7th century. Even the term Byzantine is a later invention. You know they were eastern Romans b4.

Ottoman Empire was pretty much like Byzantines too, a multi-cultural empire but Turkish was predominant language since it`s foundation like the Seljuk state b4 them.

Phrygians, Lydians, Hittites, Troyes... Yes some of them lives among us, in Turkey, Greece, Cyprus or in Balkans. There is no point denying that cuz no one vaporizes from earth unless there was some kind of genocide. Same for Pechenegs, Kumans, Avars, Tatars and other several Turkic people who created their own monarchies in Balkans in medieval times. Their descendants live among you too. Think about why you have a city named Kuman-ova???


There is an informative genetics blog but it`s owner is a overly nationalistic and delusional Greek;

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/

He also thinks that 95% of Turkish people are assimilated ancient Greeks and he occasionally keeps posting messages about genetics of Turkish people.

This is the analysis he posted 5 days ago;

He analyzes some small ethnic groups in central Asia along with some larger ethnic groups. Since he accepts the theory of "Turk=Mongol", so he only includes Mongol dna in the group called "Altaic" and look at the results for TR-Turkey;

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/11/multidimensional-scaling-and-admixture.html

As you see here, 75% of people in Turkey(TR) are south Caucasoid(balkanic, latin, mediterranean etc.), 10% are north Caucasoid(germanic, northern european etc.), 1% siberian(nganasan), 2% Altaic(mongolic according to the theory)!!!

If real Turks are Mongols, then how come 2% mongol Altaic people of current 80 million people in Turkey imposes their language to the rest of 98% in 11-12th century??? You would be an idiot to think that but Greek blogger thinks like that anyway.


Btw, look at the other Turkic speaking groups in the graphic. Chuvash group in the graphic are Turkic(Chuvash branch) speaking Volga Bulgars and 80% of them are Caucasoid too. Uzbeks and Uygurs are 50-60% Caucasoid(north&south) while all the other small Chinese, Siberian and Mongolian speaking groups around them doesn't. They are not more than 10-15% Caucasoid. What is the explanation for this? Uygurs and Uzbeks are not Turks either??? They have been assimilated by Turkic Mongols like the Anatolians??? OR Alexander`s soldiers specifically raped only the Turkic speakers 2200 years ago and 60-80% of them became Caucasoid??? Total of Turkic speakers in the world are like 200+ million. So, is this means 20 million Mongol Turkic speakers assimilated 180 million Caucasoid??

For example, look at Hungary(HU). Didn't you know that 35-40% of current Hungarians were Turkic Avars and Cumans? So, why there is only 1-2% Mongols there now? Where are the Avars and Cumans then? So, 35-40% Mongols have been vaporized in Hungary?


"Scythians=Aryan Indo-EU race" and "Turk=Mongol race" theories doesn't work cuz it doesn't have a base or proof.

onur aren't the turks descended from ishmael of which there is no comparison with the greeks.The greeks are from the sudan subharan desert Africa.Perhaps the greeks should really understand their roots & go back to the subharan desert.

I don't know about Greeks but if you talk about Jewish records, early Jewish genealogy chronicles says that Turks are the descendants of Togarmah, grandson of Japheth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah

[George S.]

re ishmael they were direct descendants of abraham.Where as togarmah, grandson of Japheth came much,much later.THere is a great prophecy regarding the turkish nation that it would be great & it would live by the sword & die by the sword.

[indigen]

[FONT="Verdana"]Their descendants live among you too. Think about why you have a city named Kuman-ova???

Have you been going to Shiptar night school by any chance?
Kumanovo is the Macedonian/Macedonic name.

No doubt there are some (visible) genetic remnants amongst some Macedonians, here and there, but the vast majority of Macedonians do not have any visible features of the Turko-Mongol type as there was little genetic input in the first place. Also, I have no issue with any Macedonian (ethhic or national) of whatever genetic, ethnic or cultural background as long as they are pro Macedonian.

There is an informative genetics blog but it`s owner is a overly nationalistic and delusional Greek;
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/

I know of this guy but I have not been there for more than a year. Yes, I agree that he takes a nationalistic Grk position on his blog but some info may be useful as a starting point for further research and contemplation.

He also thinks that 95% of Turkish people are assimilated ancient Greeks and he occasionally keeps posting messages about genetics of Turkish people.

I don't know how comprehensive past genetic research has been to take those figures as factual, but, given the current info available that I am aware of, it makes sense to think that a small Turko-Mongol military elite established a state system over a foreign Anatolian element and, due to many factors, over time its language prevailed. This is similar to what the Arabs achieved over vast non-Arab populations (and areas) and what Magyars (Hun/garians) did in Hungary.

As you see here, 75% of people in Turkey(TR) are south Caucasoid(balkanic, latin, mediterranean etc.), 10% are north Caucasoid(germanic, northern european etc.), 1% siberian(nganasan), 2% Altaic(mongolic according to the theory)!!!

If real Turks are Mongols, then how come 2% mongol Altaic people of current 80 million people in Turkey imposes their language to the rest of 98% in 11-12th century??? You would be an idiot to think that but Greek blogger thinks like that anyway.

The ethnogenesis of Central Asia
Have a read of what PROUD Turko-Mongols of Central Asia think about this topic at the link above and it may help your understanding of Turkish ethogenesis.

Btw, look at the other Turkic speaking groups in the graphic. Chuvash group in the graphic are Turkic(Chuvash branch) speaking Volga Bulgars and 80% of them are Caucasoid too.

I see you have caught the "Europeids" bug of the revisionist Bulgar "historians" such as Petar Dobrev! Hahaha....:-)

There are some Turko-Mongol relatively unmixed remnants in Ovche Pole in Macedonia and they have oriental features (see Pribichevich 1982, Macedonia: Its People and History). I am sure if you look at some areas in rural Turkey that you will find those Turko-Mongol looks/features as well, if not more so.

"Scythians=Aryan Indo-EU race" and "Turk=Mongol race" theories doesn't work cuz it doesn't have a base or proof.

Well, there are some clear races with distinguishing features and all else are a mixture of those. You are not happy because, like the Magyars, Turks in the main are only Turkish in language (and elements of culture) but not much by blood whilst your Turko-Mongol Bulgar cousins did not preserve either language or culture (except for newly invented myths of the modern era). :-)