The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[tchaiku]

Carlin here is how I see it:
Thrace:Slavs>Vlachs>Albanians
Macedonia: Slavs > Vlachs> Albanians
Epirus: Albanians> Vlachs> Slavs
Thessaly: Vlachs>Slavs>Albanians
Attico-Boetia: Albanians>Vlachs>Slavs
Euboea: Albanians>Vlachs>Slavs

[Carlin]

URLs:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=oil4DgAAQBAJ&pg=PT927&dq=Northern+Aetolia+remains+a+desolate+region,+inhabited+mainly+by+Vlach&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy55HtsILpAhUbknIEHX6yAYIQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Northern%20Aetolia%20remains%20a%20desolate%20region%2C%20inhabited%20mainly%20by%20Vlach&f=false

http://www.lexcycle.com/library/Project_Gutenberg/The_Project_Gutenberg_EncyclopediaVolume_1_of_28/part3/

"Northern Aetolia remains a desolate region, inhabited mainly by Vlach shepherds."

[Carlin]

URLs:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=A1UbAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA234&lpg=PA234&dq=Boukovalas+Hero&source=bl&ots=rf_DeQn96G&sig=ACfU3U3CEKk-LOFuV9-dE_W_x0j3RlNbNQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-3N6-1PPoAhX7hHIEHeYaDW0Q6AEwA3oECAsQNg#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.ca/books?id=pECAAAAAIAAJ&q=bucovala+aromanian&dq=bucovala+aromanian&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY1tvU0_PoAhWuY98KHfTJC4IQ6AEILjAB

https://books.google.ca/books?id=mzVpAAAAMAAJ&q=bucovala+aromanian&dq=bucovala+aromanian&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFkfr30_PoAhXqV98KHUEkAFwQ6AEIJzAA

[Carlin]

[Carlin]

[Carlin]

Year 1814: Aetolia, now called Vlakia

A Sketch of Modern and Antient Geography ... Third edition, By Samuel Butler, 1814.

Page 150:
"West of Locris, Phocis, and Doris, was Aetolia, now called Vlakia, from the Valaques, settled there by the Greek Emperors, having the Sinus Corinthiacus for its Southern, the river Achelous for its Western, and Thessaly for its Northern boundary."

Greek Emperors = Byzantine or Roman Emperors
Sinus Corinthiacus = the Gulf of Corinth or the Gulf of Lepanto: the gulf between Northern Greece or Hellas Proper, and the Peloponnesus. It commenced, according to Strabo (viii. p.335, seq.), at the mouth of the Evenus in Aetolia (some said at the mouth of the Achelous) and the promontory Araxus in Achaia, and extended to the Isthmus of Corinth. It consisted of two distant portions, an outer and an inner sea, separated from one another by the narrow strait, between the promontories Rhium and Antirrhium.

URL:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=aEa_GgUSM7MC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=Valaques+Thessaly&source=bl&ots=onEH8ZvTAZ&sig=ACfU3U1VhH8Pz_Mhm-OCPsmQ7OUgniA0rQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivnuvchM7oAhVEheAKHf9SCKMQ6AEwDXoECAwQOw#v=onepage&q=Valaques%20Thessaly&f=false

[tchaiku]

The contrast of Gothic toponyms in Italy and the Slavic toponyms in Greece is very interesting.
''Despite a sustained Lombard presence, the region has few Germanic toponyms.''

https://books.google.com/books?id=xYwBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA32&dq=germanic+toponyms+in+italy&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM_4CZ58HoAhXCxcQBHUTmCu8Q6AEwB3oECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=germanic%20toponyms%20in%20italy&f=false

''All the Germanic placenames that do exist in Italy are only attached to small settlements, and it is noteworthy that no sixth-centry source refers to a single one.''

https://books.google.com/books?id=7ndeDi_fwq0C&pg=PA333&dq=gothic+place+names+in+italy&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiesJj_5sHoAhVwxKYKHSxFBEcQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=gothic%20place%20names%20in%20italy&f=false

Given the fact that Italy had 18,100,000 inhabitants in 1800, there were less Germanic toponyms in the whole of Italy than the 350-450 Slavic toponyms of Peloponnese with a population of 330,000 in 1800.
The Germanic impact in the gene pool of Italians is around 10% to 15%, so you have your conclusions.

[Carlin]

[sydney]

We all know “it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave“ from Macedonia.

[Amphipolis]

The most problematic one (again) proves to be the ethnic term "Greek".

Really, I thought the most problematic once again is something else (something that is missing). I don't see why you bother to post evidence against your points.

[Carlin]

As mentioned above, we are talking about ethnic terms here as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time. The most problematic one (again) proves to be the ethnic term "Greek". The Albanian slaves from Epirus were called Greeks:

"In the Venetian archies of archivio notarile there are reports of Albanian slaves in Crete noted by Manoli Bresciano from 1359-1388. The majority of Albanian slaves from Epirus (de partibus Despotate) were called "Greeks"."

So, when we see in lists "Greeks" alongside "Albanians", "Vlachs" or others, we can't conclude anything with a significant degree of confidence as those Greeks might have been Albanian-speaking and/or Vlach-speaking (bilingual) Christians, etc.

URL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_slaves

Also, according to the analysis in this book, the communities of Bulgarians in Crete as well as Cyprus were "relatively large":


URL:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=tjPEtxSOuYgC&pg=PA508&dq=nikola+petrov+varna+slaves+crete&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVov-UncDoAhWSdN8KHUx-CD4Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=nikola%20petrov%20varna%20slaves%20crete&f=false

In conclusion, the above proves the existence of Albanian, Vlach, and Slavonic communities on Crete.

[sydney]

Interesting how the same names appear across all ethnicities. A lack of imagination on someone’s behalf, or a complete lack of interest/care considering slaves are stripped of all dignity. And Marica is Greek apparently.

[Carlin]

Ethnic categorization in the slave market of Crete

Let's review the ethnic categorization in the medieval documents of Venetian slave market notarial deeds. Venetian notaries recorded hundreds of slave sales in which slaves are categorized by their respective Venetian notary. Of course, we are talking about ethnic terms as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time.

Charles Verlinden has written extensively about the slave trade in the eastern Mediterranean and his notarial deeds in the late Middle Ages (14th-15th centuries): Charles Verlinden (1962), La Crète, débouché et plaque tournante de la traite des esclaves aux XIVe et XVe siècles, στο Amintore Fanfani (επ.), Studi in onore di Amintore Fanfani III: Medioevo (Milano A. Giuffrè 1962), pp. 593-669.

The slave market of Crete (Candia) was the most important slave market in the eastern Mediterranean.

The ethnic composition of the slaves of the Genoese slave trade in the Black Sea included the Tatars (by far the most common ethnicity of the slaves there), Russians, Alans, Cumans, Circassians, etc. These typical ethnicities of the Black Sea / Genoese slave trade constituted about 28% of the slaves trafficked into the Venetian slave market in Crete, which, according to Verlinden, is an indication of the high commercial activity of the Genoese.



I won't go into too much detail, but here is a sample list of slaves in Crete per Manoli Bresciano: Bulgarians, Serbs, Vlachs, Arvanites, etc.

[Carlin]

Dimitri Abeleanu from Avdella, Aegean Macedonia - "Neamul Aromanesc din Macedonia", Bucharest 1916.

[Carlin]

- Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (913-920/944-959), in his text On themes, informs us that the area’s inhabitants were called Thrakesians because they came from Thrace; He also adds that they were «laborious» and «manual workers».

- The failed mutiny against Basil I (867-886) the Macedonian, co-emperor to Michael III (842-867), in 866, was led by the Thrakesian general Symbatios and the earl of Opsikion George Peganes. (Symbatios or Symbatius is the Hellenized form of the Armenian name Smbat. It was particularly frequent in Byzantine times.)

URLs:

http://www.ehw.gr/asiaminor/Forms/fLemmaBody.aspx?lemmaid=8714

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbatios