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"Under Ottoman rule in Bulgaria in the 15th through the 19th centuries, small groups of Tatars migrated to Bulgaria. The city of Pazardzhik was originally called Tatar-Pazardzhik because of the large Tatar population in acquired in the 15th century. After the khanate of the Crimean Tatars was annexed by Russia in 1783 and especially after the Crimean War (1853-1856), huge numbers of Crimean Tatars were settled in Dobrudja in northern Bulgaria."
Exposing Bulgarian Myths and Lies
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- Pazardzhik (Bulgarian: Пазарджик) is a city situated along the banks of the Maritsa river, southern Bulgaria. It is the capital of Pazardzhik Province and centre for the homonymous Pazardzhik Municipality.
- Pazardzhik was founded by Tatars from what is today Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi in 1485 on the left bank of the river Maritsa, near the market of the region, an important crossroad at the middle of this productive region, and named Tatar Pazardzhik meaning "small Tatar market".
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In 1905, Mary Edith Durham claimed in her book, "The Burden of the Balkans" (pp. 77-79), to "have met people who believe in a special race which they call Macedonian" and who told her their language is not Bulgarian saying herself "the dialect... is neither Serbian or Bulgarian".
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"It is certain that the bulk of the Macedonian population is Slav - it is by no means certain that it is Bulgar... There is a Macedonian language and a Macedonian race... independent of either [Bulgarian or Serbian]."
* Harold Temperley, "History of Serbia" (1919) pp. 309-310
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In her book "The Women of Turkey and Their Folklore", Lucy Garnett states that the Bulgarians, excluding those of Rumelia (Macedonia and Thrace), make up two distinct types: the "Aryan Slav" and the "non-Aryan Tatar". And that those of Rumelia are mixed with Greeks and Thracians
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1933 Australian court trial involving Bulgarian boss who underpaid workers in Melbourne, lists Macedonians as separate to Greeks, Bulgars & Yugoslavs
The Argus (Melbourne) 2 Aug 1933 - Page 9
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(ДОКУМЕНТ) Тодор Живков: Подготвени сме да ја признаеме македонската нација без временско определување
Една средба во Будимпешта во 1970 година меѓу тогашниот бугарски лидер Тодор Живков и Киро Глигоров, подоцна прв претседател на самостојна Македонија, можела и требала да претставува пресвртница во тогашните југословенско-бугарски односи. Но, за жал, познатата геј-политика на Бугарија ја прокоцкала и таа можност, а работите биле стигнати до ниво на подготвена нацрт-декларација, што требало да ја потпишат Маршалот Тито и Живков. А, со неа, меѓу другото, требало да се решат две суштински прашања и за македонско-бугарските односи.
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I was having at a look at the Wikipedia entry on the Prespa village of German in Aegean Macedonia (Agios Germanos), just out of curiosity, when I decided to take a look at the Talk page of the same entry. I always make a point of having a look at the latest bullshit being spouted on these “Talk” pages where Macedonian topics are concerned. And, surprise, surprise, the usual Bulgarian suspects, serial editing pests, Jingiby and Laveol were at it again. I was pleasantly surprised, however, by the contrary views being expressed by “Lunch for Two”, who, I can only presume is a Macedonian editor in this debate, and who questioned the logic of these two clowns when it comes to the self-identification of Macedonians during the 19th Century. I think the Macedonian editor stumped these two Bulgarian idiots as they had nothing further to add to the debate, which ended abruptly back in September 2011. Here is some of that debate:
Lunch for Two 10:57, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Laveol, to quote Kanchov, one of the leading Bulgarians of the time: "Местните българи и куцовласи, които живеят в пределите на Македония се наричат сами македонци и околните народи ги зовът тъй. Турците и арнаутите не се казватъ македонци, но попитани от къде са, отговарят: от Македония... така също и гърците, които живеят по южните области, не се казватъ македонци..." By his own admission these are people who call themselves "Macedonians". Bulgarians and Greeks from Macedonia also call themselves Macedonians, however this is only a regional affiliation. It seems unusual for Kanchov to say, as he does, that Bulgarians have this regional affiliation but the Greeks do not. Surely, if he was talking about regional affiliation he would say that Bulgarians and Greeks call themselves Macedonians. This is because in this instance the "Bulgarians" are calling themselves "Macedonians" in an ethnic sense. Furthermore, it seems unusual for the surrounding ethnicities (Turks, Greeks, Albanians, Roma presumably) to call these people "Macedonians" if they were in fact ethnic Bulgarians.
Jingiby and Laveol, I am genuinely interested in how you can somehow interpret this statement as discussing self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians from Macedonia. Surely if it was only a regional designation, then Greeks would also be included in the same category? (Would they be not?) Also, if they were indeed ethnic Bulgarians, then why would the surrounding ethnicities call, them specifically, "Macedonians"?, If we are to take this view then they would in fact be as "Macedonian" as each other, and would call each other by their respective ethnicities. Why, if they were ethnic Bulgarians, would they be called Macedonians by their neighbours?
Laveol 11:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC): In the same way people call me Macedonian only because I come from the region of Macedonia. I think you have troubles with part of the text. The part you chose to quote says that Greeks from the Southern part of the region do not call themselves that way. Turks have no such regional identity, why should they be calling themselves Macedonians? Do you get what he is trying to explain? He wants to put exact boundaries on the term Macedonia. And the only way of doing so is using the regional self-identification of the people living there. And it does not work with Greeks because the ones in the Southern part of the region do not refer to themselves as Macedonians. Read the whole thing, not just the intro about the geography of the region.
Lunch for Two 11:36, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Do Turks, Greeks, Albanians and Serbs (okolni narodi) call you simply Macedonian? Surely they do not, logically you would be first referred to as Bulgarian, then as a Bulgarian from the region of Macedonia. I understand what he is trying to say, and he says it clearly. What he is saying is that the locals call themselves Macedonians, and the others around them also call them that. If this was not an ethnic designation, then why would a person from a different ethnicity apply a regional and not ethnic designation?
Jingby 11:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Laveol, stop talk to him. It will be for nothing. He does not formate any constructive sentence in this conversation. Only POV-pushing.
Lunch for Two 12:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Jingiby, I dont have a problem discussing so long as you can show valid and logical reasoning. Neither you nor Laveol has been able to discredit Kanchov's comments. If you can show from a reasonable perspective (one which is not biased by our own Balkan related beliefs) that by his own admission the locals viewed themselves as Macedonians, then I will be more than happy to accept your reasoning.
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1915 Bulgarian occupation terror was so bad during WW1 that Macedonians wanted British Imperial rule
The Mail (Adelaide, South Australia) - 27 Nov 1915 - Page 1:
Quote: "The country was infested with lawless Bulgarians. The Macedonians hate the Bulgars, and ask to be governed by England and France, who will, they say, make them wealthy."Last edited by Carlin; 07-10-2020, 12:58 PM.
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During the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in WW2, the Bitola police superintendent ordered the confiscation of badges that carried the inscription "Independent Macedonia", worn by members of the local Macedonian organization Ilinden.
The superintendent directed his subordinates to replace the "confusing" badges with new ones that didn't carry the inscription "Independent Macedonia".
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New Zealand press archive
1941 New Zealand press article reports - Macedonians are just Macedonians and hate Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy; they hate the Bulgarian rulers
The WAIKATO INDEPENDENT, 23 APRIL 1941
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1) No TITO involved!
1939 - Australian magazine report: Bulgaria has 11 different nationalities, including Macedonians.
Pix Magazine., v.4, no.20, 1939-11-11 (ISSN: 0032-0390)
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2) Бугарската нација се создавала со поткупување aгитaтoри!?
Како Македонци станувале “бугарски” национални дејци – „Ќе ми даваш пари, ќе станам бугарин“… (“Од спомените” на бугарскиот преродбеник Петар Берковски од град Лом, 1894)
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3) A group of Prilep residents in July of 1887 petitioned the Ottoman sultan Abdul Hamid II (1842-1918) to allow them to open a Macedonian public school in Prilep, since they are not Bulgarians and don't recognise the Bulgarian church schools.
They expressed their wish to be protected by the authority of the Roman Pope, but to be allowed to practice Eastern Orthodoxy.
4) The late Bulgarian philologist Dina Stanisheva during the late 1970's lost her job at the Institute for Bulgarian language just because she held the scientific belief that the Macedonian language is separate & distinct from Bulgarian.
Last edited by Carlin; 06-29-2020, 11:20 PM.
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In 1890 the Austrian (of Czech origin) Karl Hron authored a study on Macedonians in which he affrimed their distinct ethnic character: Das Volksthum der Slaven Makedoniens (Народноста на македонските Словени). In Serbia, Hron's book has been widely criticized since its publication, while in Bulgaria its "silence" seems to continue today.
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Here are a couple of quotes (in Macedonian):
- "По моите сопствени студии на српско-бугарскиот спор дојдов до убедување дека Македонците, како по својата историја така и по својот јазик, се посебна народност. Значи, ниту се Срби, уште помалку Бугари, туку се потомци на оние словенски прадоселеници кои го населувале Балканскиот Полуостров веќе долго пред српската и бугарската инвазија и кои подоцна со ниту една од овие две нации не се измешале"
- "... македонскиот јазик според своите сопствени закони за развитокот на гласовите, како и според неговите граматички правила формира еден сопствен јазик..."
- "Колку повеќе ја гледам целината на досегашните заклучоци станувам се поцврсто уверен дека посебната националност на Македонците ќе биде со напредувањето во испитувањата се појасна и подокажлива"
Last edited by Carlin; 06-14-2020, 08:00 PM.
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