The European Union - the New Soviet Union?

[George S.]

the eu debt is running in many trillions.

[Onur]

Stock trader Alessio Rastani shocked the hosts on BBC when he gave his view of the economic crisis facing the world, but specifically the Eurozone.

Rastani says the market is ruled by fear and nothing can save the Eurozone.

"This is not a time right now for wishful thinking that governments are going to sort things out. The governments don't rule the world, Goldman Sachs rules the world," he said.

Trader of the BBC says Eurozone Market will Crash BBC News Version - YouTube

Just in case if you don't know what is Goldman Sachs;
It`s one of the giant banking companies of the world`s money barons. It`s linked with Rothschild and/or Rockefeller family. There is a list of their former employers in wikipedia and just by looking at these people`s other occupations, you can understand that the trader on BBC is not that wrong;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs#Alumni

[George S.]

I forgot to mention that there will be difinitely a huuge civil unrest of the kind never seen will make the uk unrest look like a sunday school picnic.

[George S.]

has anyone contemplated that the eu will probably boot greece out of the eu club & back to the drachmas for greece because of the high risk associated.

[Onur]

OK, this sounds insane but according to the latest rumors, the eurocrat`s next step will be letting Greece and Portugal to go default, capitalize all the banks in Europe who are deeply exposed to their debt and then funnel multi-trillion (!!!) euros to the Italy and Spain to be able to save them because of aftershock effects. They are planning to do this because it`s impossible to bailout top10 world economies like Italy and Spain in an uncontrolled situation;

Multi-trillion plan to save the eurozone being prepared
European officials are working on a grand plan to restore confidence in the single currency area that would involve a massive bank recapitalisation, giving the bail-out fund several trillion euros of firepower, and a possible Greek default.

German and French authorities have begun work on a three-pronged strategy behind the scenes amid escalating fears that the eurozone’s sovereign debt crisis is spiralling out of control.

Their aim is to build a “firebreak” around Greece, Portugal and Ireland to prevent the crisis spreading to Italy and Spain, countries considered “too big to bail”.

According to sources, progress has been made at the G20 meeting in Washington, where global leaders piled pressure on the eurozone to fix its problems before plunging the world back into recession. In a G20 communique issued on Friday, the world’s leading economies set themselves a six-week deadline to resolve the crisis – to unveil a solution by the G20 summit in Cannes on November 4.

Sources said the plan would have to be released as a whole, as the elements would not work in isolation.

First, Europe’s banks would have to be recapitalised with many tens of billions of euros to reassure markets that a Greek or Portuguese default would not precipitate a systemic financial crisis. The recapitalisation plan would go much further than the €2.5bn (£2.2bn) required by regulators following the European bank stress tests in July and crucially would include the under-pressure French lenders.

Officials are confident that some banks could raise the funds privately, but if they are unable they would either be recapitalised by the state or by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) – the eurozone’s €440bn bail-out scheme.

The second leg of the plan is to bolster the EFSF. Economists have estimated it would need about Eu2 trillion of firepower to meet Italy and Spain’s financing needs in the event that the two countries were shut out of the markets. Officials are working on a way to leverage the EFSF through the European Central Bank to reach the target.

The complex deal would see the EFSF provide a loss-bearing “equity” tranche of any bail-out fund and the ECB the rest in protected “debt”. If the EFSF bore the first 20pc of any loss, the fund’s warchest would effectively be bolstered to Eu2 trillion. If the EFSF bore the first 40pc of any loss, the fund would be able to deploy Eu1 trillion.

Using leverage in this way would allow governments substantially to increase the resources available to the EFSF without having to go back to national parliaments for approval, which in a number of eurozone countries would prove highly problematic.

The arrangement is similar to the proposal made by US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner to the eurozone at the September 16 EcoFin meeting in Poland. Gathering turmoil in financial markets has convinced Germany to begin work of some kind of variant of the US plan, despite having initially rejected the notion as unworkable as threatening to compromise ECB independence.

The proposal would be hugely sensitive in Germany as its parliament has yet to ratify the July 21 agreement to allow the EFSF to inject capital into banks and buy the sovereign debt of countries not under a European Union and International Monetary Fund restructuring programme. The vote is due on September 29.

As quid pro quo for an enhanced bail-out, the Germans are understood to be demanding a managed default by Greece but for the country to remain within the eurozone. Under the plan, private sector creditors would bear a loss of as much as 50pc – more than double the 21pc proposal currently on the table. A new bail-out programme would then be devised for Greece.

Officials would hope the plan would stem the panic in the markets and stop bond vigilantes targeting Italy and Spain, which European and IMF figures believe should not be in any immediate distress but are in need of longer-term structural reform.

Delegates at the IMF meeting in Washington claimed that there had been “a visible shift in pace and mood” to address sovereign debt problems, particularly in the eurozone.

But George Osborne, the Chancellor, said today: "No one here has put forward a plan for that. Greece has got a programme and needs to implement it."

24 Sep 2011

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-prepared.html

I don't know but capitalizing banks and transferring their deposit values to the Italy and Spain might cause a major civil unrest and chaos all around Europe. This is too dangerous.

[George S.]

Greece's destiny in the eu was sort of predictable the way it was carrying on & even then they had no way of paying back that money they borrowed.What people think that tourist
dollars doesn't even cover the fraction needed.The eu should have booted the likes of greece years ago.Just one thing if greeces membership is taken away & they go back to drachmas then clearly they won't be able to demand that macedonia change her name.Greece will not be a member of the eu anymore.That's really good news for us.
But i wouldn't want to join a shonly organization as the eu.

[Pelister]

I read an article in the Financial Review last week that said that the E.U is considering whether it should remove some of the Greece's soveriegn rights, if it fails to deliver. I couldn't believe my eyes. I mean Greece and the E.U are basket cases, but the E.U removing soveriegn powers ...

[George S.]

a federal govt will never work & even then imagine the bureaucracy involved that's mindbogling.

[makedonche]

Onur

Edit; I just found the speech of the globalist cabals, yesterday in Brussels. They say that intergovernmental cooperation doesn't work, solution is fully federal Europe with single authority in Brussels for whole EU!!!;

Fully federal europe with single authority in Brussels? that's scary given their lack of ability to get the Greek Debt under any type of control! I can't see too many nations lining up for this - unless of course theyr'e so far in debt they don't have a choice!

[George S.]

there is a lot of talk of the greeks defaulting & the germans how they are going to shield the rest of the eu nations.
Also china is considering bailing out defaulting countries by issuing chinese bonds.So in a way it's like a safetynet.

[Onur]

EU issued eurobonds to get new loans and deliver the money to Greece and other countries in economical trouble. Daniel Hannan calls attention to these Eurobonds and says "They have his soul who have his bonds, when i look at who holds the eurobonds, i tremble". It`s China who owns most of the eurobonds.
This is the end - YouTube



Edit; I just found the speech of the globalist cabals, yesterday in Brussels. They say that intergovernmental cooperation doesn't work, solution is fully federal Europe with single authority in Brussels for whole EU!!!;
Barroso vows to present 'options' on euro bonds soon - YouTube

[Risto the Great]

And this is for the shits and giggles;
While all the doom&gloom surrounds the EU and whole eurozone is on the verge of collapse, Bulgaria wanna join the eurozone!!!;

Macedonia shits & giggles in the same way .... often.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

“It's a struggle for the political future of Europe, for European integration as a whole,”

He should have said this

“It's a struggle for the globalist political future of EUSSR, for multiculturalism integration as a whole[/URL],”

I know this a old article, but it deserves to be posted and read by everyone to understand the EU agenda.

Former Soviet Dissident Warns For EU Dictatorship

Vladimir Bukovksy, the 63-year old former Soviet dissident, fears that the European Union is on its way to becoming another Soviet Union. In a speech he delivered in Brussels last week Mr Bukovsky called the EU a “monster” that must be destroyed, the sooner the better, before it develops into a fullfledged totalitarian state.

Mr Bukovsky paid a visit to the European Parliament on Thursday at the invitation of Fidesz, the Hungarian Civic Forum. Fidesz, a member of the European Christian Democrat group, had invited the former Soviet dissident over from England, where he lives, on the occasion of this year’s 50th anniversary of the 1956 Hungarian Uprising. After his morning meeting with the Hungarians, Mr Bukovsky gave an afternoon speech in a Polish restaurant in the Trier straat, opposite the European Parliament, where he spoke at the invitation of the United Kingdom Independence Party, of which he is a patron.

In his speech Mr Bukovsky referred to confidential documents from secret Soviet files which he was allowed to read in 1992. These documents confirm the existence of a “conspiracy” to turn the European Union into a socialist organization. I attended the meeting and taped the speech. A transcript, as well as the audio fragment (approx. 15 minutes) can be found below. I also had a brief interview with Mr Bukovsky (4 minutes), a transcript and audio fragment of which can also be found below. The interview about the European Union had to be cut short because Mr Bukovsky had other engagements, but it brought back some memories to me, as I had interviewed Vladimir Bukovsky twenty years ago, in 1986, when the Soviet Union, the first monster that he so valiantly fought, was still alive and thriving.

Mr Bukovsky was one of the heroes of the 20th century. As a young man he exposed the use of psychiatric imprisonment against political prisoners in the former USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, 1917-1991) and spent a total of twelve years (1964-1976), from his 22nd to his 34th year, in Soviet jails, labour camps and psychiatric institutions. In 1976 the Soviets expelled him to the West. In 1992 he was invited by the Russian government to serve as an expert testifying at the trial conducted to determine whether the Soviet Communist Party had been a criminal institution. To prepare for his testimony Mr Bukovsky was granted access to a large number of documents from Soviet secret archives. He is one of the few people ever to have seen these documents because they are still classified. Using a small handheld scanner and a laptop computer, however, he managed to copy many documents (some with high security clearance), including KGB reports to the Soviet government.

Paul Belien: You were a very famous Soviet dissident and now you are drawing a parallel between the European Union and the Soviet Union. Can you explain this?

Vladimir Bukovsky: I am referrring to structures, to certain ideologies being instilled, to the plans, the direction, the inevitable expansion, the obliteration of nations, which was the purpose of the Soviet Union. Most people do not understand this. They do not know it, but we do because we were raised in the Soviet Union where we had to study the Soviet ideology in school and at university. The ultimate purpose of the Soviet Union was to create a new historic entity, the Soviet people, all around the globe. The same is true in the EU today. They are trying to create a new people. They call this people “Europeans”, whatever that means.

According to Communist doctrine as well as to many forms of Socialist thinking, the state, the national state, is supposed to wither away. In Russia, however, the opposite happened. Instead of withering away the Soviet state became a very powerful state, but the nationalities were obliterated. But when the time of the Soviet collapse came these suppressed feelings of national identity came bouncing back and they nearly destroyed the country. It was so frightening.

PB: Do you think the same thing can happen when the European Union collapses?

VB: Absolutely, you can press a spring only that much, and the human psyche is very resilient you know. You can press it, you can press it, but don’t forget it is still accumulating a power to rebound. It is like a spring and it always goes to overshoot.

PB: But all these countries that joined the European Union did so voluntarily.

VB: No, they did not. Look at Denmark which voted against the Maastricht treaty twice. Look at Ireland [which voted against the Nice treaty]. Look at many other countries, they are under enormous pressure. It is almost blackmail. Switzerland was forced to vote five times in a referendum. All five times they have rejected it, but who knows what will happen the sixth time, the seventh time. It is always the same thing. It is a trick for idiots. The people have to vote in referendums until the people vote the way that is wanted. Then they have to stop voting. Why stop? Let us continue voting. The European Union is what Americans would call a shotgun marriage.

PB: What do you think young people should do about the European Union? What should they insist on, to democratize the institution or just abolish it?

VB: I think that the European Union, like the Soviet Union, cannot be democratized. Gorbachev tried to democratize it and it blew up. This kind of structures cannot be democratized.

PB: But we have a European Parliament which is chosen by the people.

VB: The European Parliament is elected on the basis of proportional representation, which is not true representation. And what does it vote on? The percentage of fat in yoghurt, that kind of thing. It is ridiculous. It is given the task of the Supreme Soviet. The average MP can speak for six minutes per year in the Chamber. That is not a real parliament.

In 1992 I had unprecedented access to Politburo and Central Committee secret documents which have been classified, and still are even now, for 30 years. These documents show very clearly that the whole idea of turning the European common market into a federal state was agreed between the left-wing parties of Europe and Moscow as a joint project which [Soviet leader Mikhail] Gorbachev in 1988-89 called our “common European home.”

The idea was very simple. It first came up in 1985-86, when the Italian Communists visited Gorbachev, followed by the German Social-Democrats. They all complained that the changes in the world, particularly after [British Prime Minister Margaret] Thatcher introduced privatisation and economic liberalisation, were threatening to wipe out the achievement (as they called it) of generations of Socialists and Social-Democrats – threatening to reverse it completely. Therefore the only way to withstand this onslaught of wild capitalism (as they called it) was to try to introduce the same socialist goals in all countries at once. Prior to that, the left-wing parties and the Soviet Union had opposed European integration very much because they perceived it as a means to block their socialist goals. From 1985 onwards they completely changed their view. The Soviets came to a conclusion and to an agreement with the left-wing parties that if they worked together they could hijack the whole European project and turn it upside down. Instead of an open market they would turn it into a federal state.

According to the [secret Soviet] documents, 1985-86 is the turning point. I have published most of these documents. You might even find them on the internet. But the conversations they had are really eye opening. For the first time you understand that there is a conspiracy – quite understandable for them, as they were trying to save their political hides. In the East the Soviets needed a change of relations with Europe because they were entering a protracted and very deep structural crisis; in the West the left-wing parties were afraid of being wiped out and losing their influence and prestige. So it was a conspiracy, quite openly made by them, agreed upon, and worked out.

In January of 1989, for example, a delegation of the Trilateral Commission came to see Gorbachev. It included [former Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro] Nakasone, [former French President Valéry] Giscard d’Estaing, [American banker David] Rockefeller and [former US Secretary of State Henry] Kissinger. They had a very nice conversation where they tried to explain to Gorbachev that Soviet Russia had to integrate into the financial institutions of the world, such as Gatt, the IMF and the World Bank.

In the middle of it Giscard d’Estaing suddenly takes the floor and says: “Mr President, I cannot tell you exactly when it will happen – probably within 15 years – but Europe is going to be a federal state and you have to prepare yourself for that. You have to work out with us, and the European leaders, how you would react to that, how would you allow the other Easteuropean countries to interact with it or how to become a part of it, you have to be prepared.”

This was January 1989, at a time when the [1992] Maastricht treaty had not even been drafted. How the hell did Giscard d’Estaing know what was going to happen in 15 years time? And surprise, surprise, how did he become the author of the European constitution [in 2002-03]? A very good question. It does smell of conspiracy, doesn’t it?

Luckily for us the Soviet part of this conspiracy collapsed earlier and it did not reach the point where Moscow could influence the course of events. But the original idea was to have what they called a convergency, whereby the Soviet Union would mellow somewhat and become more social-democratic, while Western Europe would become social-democratic and socialist. Then there will be convergency. The structures have to fit each other. This is why the structures of the European Union were initially built with the purpose of fitting into the Soviet structure. This is why they are so similar in functioning and in structure.

It is no accident that the European Parliament, for example, reminds me of the Supreme Soviet. It looks like the Supreme Soviet because it was designed like it. Similary, when you look at the European Commission it looks like the Politburo. I mean it does so exactly, except for the fact that the Commission now has 25 members and the Politburo usually had 13 or 15 members. Apart from that they are exactly the same, unaccountable to anyone, not directly elected by anyone at all. When you look into all this bizarre activity of the European Union with its 80,000 pages of regulations it looks like Gosplan. We used to have an organisation which was planning everything in the economy, to the last nut and bolt, five years in advance. Exactly the same thing is happening in the EU. When you look at the type of EU corruption, it is exactly the Soviet type of corruption, going from top to bottom rather than going from bottom to top.

If you go through all the structures and features of this emerging European monster you will notice that it more and more resembles the Soviet Union. Of course, it is a milder version of the Soviet Union. Please, do not misunderstand me. I am not saying that it has a Gulag. It has no KGB – not yet – but I am very carefully watching such structures as Europol for example. That really worries me a lot because this organisation will probably have powers bigger than those of the KGB. They will have diplomatic immunity. Can you imagine a KGB with diplomatic immunity? They will have to police us on 32 kinds of crimes – two of which are particularly worrying, one is called racism, another is called xenophobia. No criminal court on earth defines anything like this as a crime [this is not entirely true, as Belgium already does so – pb]. So it is a new crime, and we have already been warned. Someone from the British government told us that those who object to uncontrolled immigration from the Third World will be regarded as racist and those who oppose further European integration will be regarded as xenophobes. I think Patricia Hewitt said this publicly.

Hence, we have now been warned. Meanwhile they are introducing more and more ideology. The Soviet Union used to be a state run by ideology. Today’s ideology of the European Union is social-democratic, statist, and a big part of it is also political correctness. I watch very carefully how political correctness spreads and becomes an oppressive ideology, not to mention the fact that they forbid smoking almost everywhere now. Look at this persecution of people like the Swedish pastor who was persecuted for several months because he said that the Bible does not approve homosexuality. France passed the same law of hate speech concerning gays. Britain is passing hate speech laws concerning race relations and now religious speech, and so on and so forth. What you observe, taken into perspective, is a systematic introduction of ideology which could later be enforced with oppressive measures. Apparently that is the whole purpose of Europol. Otherwise why do we need it? To me Europol looks very suspicious. I watch very carefully who is persecuted for what and what is happening, because that is one field in which I am an expert. I know how Gulags spring up.

It looks like we are living in a period of rapid, systematic and very consistent dismantlement of democracy. Look at this Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. It makes ministers into legislators who can introduce new laws without bothering to tell Parliament or anyone. My immediate reaction is why do we need it? Britain survived two world wars, the war with Napoleon, the Spanish Armada, not to mention the Cold War, when we were told at any moment we might have a nuclear world war, without any need for introducing this kind legislation, without the need for suspending our civil liberaties and introducing emergency powers. Why do we need it right now? This can make a dictatorship out of your country in no time.

Today’s situation is really grim. Major political parties have been completely taken in by the new EU project. None of them really opposes it. They have become very corrupt. Who is going to defend our freedoms? It looks like we are heading towards some kind of collapse, some kind of crisis. The most likely outcome is that there will be an economic collapse in Europe, which in due time is bound to happen with this growth of expenses and taxes. The inability to create a competitive environment, the overregulation of the economy, the bureaucratisation, it is going to lead to economic collapse. Particularly the introduction of the euro was a crazy idea. Currency is not supposed to be political.

I have no doubt about it. There will be a collapse of the European Union pretty much like the Soviet Union collapsed. But do not forget that when these things collapse they leave such devastation that it takes a generation to recover. Just think what will happen if it comes to an economic crisis. The recrimination between nations will be huge. It might come to blows. Look to the huge number of immigrants from Third World countries now living in Europe. This was promoted by the European Union. What will happen with them if there is an economic collapse? We will probably have, like in the Soviet Union at the end, so much ethnic strife that the mind boggles. In no other country were there such ethnic tensions as in the Soviet Union, except probably in Yugoslavia. So that is exactly what will happen here, too. We have to be prepared for that. This huge edifice of bureaucracy is going to collapse on our heads.

This is why, and I am very frank about it, the sooner we finish with the EU the better. The sooner it collapses the less damage it will have done to us and to other countries. But we have to be quick because the Eurocrats are moving very fast. It will be difficult to defeat them. Today it is still simple. If one million people march on Brussels today these guys will run away to the Bahamas. If tomorrow half of the British population refuses to pay its taxes, nothing will happen and no-one will go to jail. Today you can still do that. But I do not know what the situation will be tomorrow with a fully fledged Europol staffed by former Stasi or Securitate officers. Anything may happen.

We are losing time. We have to defeat them. We have to sit and think, work out a strategy in the shortest possible way to achieve maximum effect. Otherwise it will be too late. So what should I say? My conclusion is not optimistic. So far, despite the fact that we do have some anti-EU forces in almost every country, it is not enough. We are losing and we are wasting time.

Source from: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

[makedonche]

Daniel Hannam - good on you! another one telling it like it is, I could get to like this bloke as well!
As for "war", it's unlikely, but nothing is out of the question.
Bulgaria in the Eurozone - now that is funny! What do they expect from joining the Schengen zone? - my guess is a rapid exit of many thousands of people trying to get out of Bulgaria!

[Onur]

There was an EU parliament meeting today and according to the news, it was only doom&gloom in the atmosphere, even on the faces of eurocrats. But it looks like they are not changing their tone and calling for "more integration" and using scaremongering tactics now, basically saying "obey us or you may die soon";

Polish minister warns EU of war
Issuing a dramatic wake-up call, Poland's finance minister invoked on Wednesday the spectre of war in Europe's future if the debt crisis leads to the break-up of the European Union.

"If the eurozone breaks up, the European Union will not be able to survive, with all the consequences that one can imagine," Jacek Rostowski, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency, told the European Parliament.

To hammer home his point, Rostowski recounted a chance meeting he had with an old acquaintance at an airport last week. As they discussed the crisis, the minister said the man voiced fears of "war in the next 10 years".

"War! Ladies and gentlemen, those are the terms he used," Rostowski said, adding that the acquaintance said he was so fearful that he intended to seek US residency permits for his children.

"I think that would be regrettable," said Rostowski, whose country is not a member of the 17-nation eurozone, the single currency bloc within the 27-state EU that was born from the ashes of World War II.

Asked about his remarks at a press conference, Rostowski said he wanted to "underline the serious nature of the situation" so that European officials "become conscious of the crisis", which could lead to "unimaginable situations".

"If the eurozone disappears, if that were to happen, then there is a great risk that the EU will not be able to survive such a situation," he added.

"Europe's great achievement is political peace. But it is not eternal. If we do not take good decisions, history can turn against us in a bad way."

Also speaking in the European Parliament on Wednesday, European Commission President José Manuel Barroso also underlined that Europe's future was at stake.

“We are facing the biggest crisis of this generation,” said Mr Barroso. “It's a struggle for the political future of Europe, for European integration as a whole,” he added.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Pol...f-war-20110914

This is quite interesting, coming from a minister of Poland; "adding that the acquaintance said he was so fearful that he intended to seek US residency permits for his children". Hmm, makes you no wonder why Polish people lived under German and Vatican domination for centuries and abused as mercenary soldiers against the Ottoman empire forces.





The eurosceptics responds to them in this way;
"Part time dictators" - YouTube

The writing on the wall - YouTube



And this is for the shits and giggles;
While all the doom&gloom surrounds the EU and whole eurozone is on the verge of collapse, Bulgaria wanna join the eurozone!!!;

With Finances in 'Good Shape,' Bulgaria Seeks Invitation to Euro
On an official visit to the newest Eurozone country, Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borissov expressed his own country's desire for the common currency.

"Some Eurozone countries have trouble satisfying the criteria and they don't fulfill budget deficit requirements. Those countries are the victims of populism. Enlarging the state budget deficit is the easiest thing to do," Borissov told ERR radio.

Bulgaria was on track to joining the Schengen zone at the beginning of the summer, but the integration was postponed due to opposition from some member countries like Germany and the Netherlands. Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said he supports Bulgaria's entrance to the visa-free area.

September 13, 2011

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=132039