Busting the "Vergina Tomb" myth

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • TrueMacedonian
    Banned
    • Jan 2009
    • 3823

    Busting the "Vergina Tomb" myth

    Code:
    http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museums/Archaeological_and_Byzantine/Arx_Bas_Tafoi_Berginas.html
    According to the propaganda 'greek' website above;

    Vergina, a village in Imathia, is 12 km from Veroia, 75 km from Thessaloniki, and 515 km from Athens. It has enjoyed worldwide renown in the past few decades, owing to the discovery there of the ancient city of Aigai, the ancient capital of the Macedonian kings, and its cemetery. Of particular note are the tombs of the royal dynasty, most notably King Philip II and a young prince who is identified as Alexander IV, and a cist grave. The royal tombs were discovered in 1977-8 by the archaeologist Manolis Andronikos.
    And here's Eugene Borza on this supposed claim - http://www.jstor.org/pss/505193 -

    Many European, Australian, and North American scholars, while applauding the importance of Andronikos's discoveries, have remained skeptical about Andronikos's identification of the deceased.
    Here's a link to a familiar site everyone knows about which discusses the archaeologist - http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/An...ndronikos.html

    Of course there are stamps, statues, busts and so forth on this particular man. Modern "greece" celebrates this man to a radically insane extreme because of their myths. Here's another cute website
    Code:
    http://www.macedonia.info/vergina.htm
    and here's what it claims;

    News on April 2, 2002
    ONE MILLION VISITORS IN VERGINA IN FIVE YEARS
    About one million people visited the archaeological site of Vergina since 1997 and their number is expected to be increased after the construction of the Museum of Vergina. The announcement was made by Culture Minister Evangelos Venizelos on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the death of archaeologist Manolis Andronikos, who discovered the tomb of King Philippos B' father of Alexander the Great.
    The new museum will allow the treasures of every monument in the archaeological site of
    Vergina to be exhibited separately.


    So I found an interesting book that goes to show you that 2 peoples are sometimes really alike. And I don't mean Macedonians and todays modern 'greek'. Read on and see who I mean;


    page 31
  • julie
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 3869

    #2
    The Hell Ass are one confused people, not only is Alexander Makedonski a Greek, now King Filip of Macedon as well? Who is stealing history and culture ? Especially take note premier of SA - this is another example of stealing culture by the HellAss bullshit made up nation of Greek monkeys - and he supports the crap. King Filip's 3rd wife was from Olympia, a whore. Matriarchal Greeks, what hypocrites.
    "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

    Comment

    • Jankovska
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1774

      #3
      Was that really the tomb of King Philip Makedonski? I mean who else has looked into it apart from the Greeks?

      Comment

      • Rogi
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2343

        #4
        I wonder, if it is the the tomb of Philip and contains his remains... is it possible for a DNA sample to be obtained?

        If so, wouldn't it be good for tourism to let people go there and have their own DNA tested against it to see if there's any connection. Surely Greece would want to do that? Unless of course, they can't hide the results....

        I wonder what kind of results that might show.

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          #5
          "Regarding the paraphernalia we attribute to Alexander, no single item constitutes proof, but the quality of the argument increases with the quantity of information"

          "We believe that it is likely that this material was Alexander's. As for the dating of the tombs themselves, this is virtually certain."

          -Eugene N. Borza, professor emeritus of ancient history at Pennsylvania State University.

          Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration.



          "[Andronikos] presented his theories [that the tombs were those of Alexander's father and his family] with great skill, and the Greek nation responded with fervent enthusiasm," Borza said.

          "Indeed I was one of those who, in two early articles in the late 1970s, accepted Andronikos' view that the remains were those of Philip II."

          Borza started to doubt Andronikos' conclusions, however, as he studied the evidence.

          He contacted Olga Palagia, an art historian at the University of Athens, to evaluate the tombs' construction, pottery, and paintings.

          Soon the duo realized the significance of the fact that Tomb II and Tomb III were built using a curved ceilings called barrel vaults.

          "The earliest securely dated barrel vault in Greece dates to the late 320s [B.C.], nearly a generation after the death of Philip II," Borza told National Geographic News.

          Palagia also found that paintings on the exterior frieze of the tomb reflected themes that were likely from the age of Alexander the Great, rather than that of his father.

          "Alexander the Great's "Crown," Shield Discovered?" Sara Goudarzi for National Geographic News, April 23, 2008


          From Wiki reference:
          Specifically, Tomb II. While there is general agreement on its royal status, some scholars identify the buried male as Philip III Arrhidaeus, instead.
          Last edited by Bratot; 02-19-2010, 12:23 PM.
          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • Bratot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2855

            #6
            In 274 B.C., when Antigonus Gonatas was King
            of Macedonia, Pyrrhus, the King of Epirus, invaded Macedonia and arrived at Aeges
            (Vergina), where he pillaged all royal tombs and
            scattered the bones of all kings, among which
            there were those of Philip II and his son's, Philip III
            Arrhidaeus'.
            (Diodorus Siculus, Plutarch,Pausanias)


            Professor Andronikos in his book refers to the pillaging of the royal tombs by Pyrrhus, but claims that “it was by mere coincidence that the tomb of King Philip II escaped from being pillaged”.


            However, this tomb was well known to everyone
            and would have been impossible for it to have
            escaped, just like no other royal tomb in Vergina
            escaped before 274 BC .
            This view on which Professor Andronikos' final
            conclusions on the identity of the dead and the
            tombs of Vergina were based was, in my opinion,
            a serious historical error of facts in the field of
            archaeology.



            This error of facts was significantly reinforced by
            the conclusions of a group of British scientists
            under Anatomist Dr. J. Musgrave, who supported
            in their report that “…they succeeded in restoring
            the head of King Philip II based on the skull bones
            discovered in Tomb II”
            (Transactions of the International Congress of Classical Archaeology XII, Athens 4 10.9.1983).


            FIRST DISPUTED POINT


            Based on the evidence
            presented above in combination
            with the age of the
            dead of Tombs II and III
            as well as the building
            construction and artefacts,
            I have formed completely
            different views from those
            of Professor Andronikos', after these had already been
            established in Greece andabroad. In 1993 I undertook
            the writing of a book on the subject (“To Philip II or to
            Alexander the Great belongs the royal tomb of
            Vergina?”,1993) and expressed my counter-arguments
            concerning ProfessorAndronikos' conclusions and
            Dr. J. Musgrave's findings. My conclusion was that:
            The bones of Tomb II do not belong to King
            Philip II and his last wife,Cleopatra.
            The same conclusion is expressed in the relevant
            report by Mr. N. I. Xirotiris, Professor of Anthropology
            at the University of Thrace and his colleague, Mrs.
            Franziska Langenscheidt (Archaiologike Ephimeris
            1981).T h is was also later confirmed by Mr. A. Bartsiokas,
            Professor of Anthropology as well (Science
            Magazine, 21.4.2000).
            Historical evidence leads us to the conclusion that in
            316 BC King Philip III Arrhidaeus was buried in this
            tomb by Cassander, following his murder by
            Olympias in 317 BC at Pella (Pausanias).
            King Philip II was buried between 336 and 335 B.C.
            in the adjacent Tomb III. There is important
            evidence proving his identity.
            TOMB II AND THE FAMOUS
            HUNTING SCENE
            After Pyrrhus was driven away in 273 BC, Tomb II
            was prepared by Antigonus Gonatas and acquired
            the form we know today with the Hunting Scene
            Mural (Fig. 1); this hunting incident had taken place
            in Bactria in 327 BC, nine years after Philip's death
            (Arrian). The rider seen in the middle on the mural
            is Alexander the Great, while both King Philip II and
            Philip III Arrhidaeus are missing. Alexander's attire
            (Fig. 1) confirms what Diodorus Siculus writes that in
            Persia “…he wore a white tunic and a Persian belt
            without Persian breeches (anaxyrides)”. Also what
            Herodotus writes is verified, i.e. that “in Persia, those
            who were about to make
            a sacrifice wore a wreath
            of myrtle leaves” (as the
            mural confirms).

            As for Professor Andronikos'
            view that the lionhunter
            on horseback is
            Philip II, because of his
            physical similarity to the
            king, I hold a different
            point of view. This is the
            chief of Alexander's bodyguards,
            Ptolemy, son
            of Lagus, who according to ancient sources was the biological son of Philipbut
            inname the son of General Lagus, since Philip had
            given to Lagus theboy's mother, Arsinoe, Philip's
            concubine, as a wife while she was pregnant (Ploutarch).
            It was, therefore,natural for the young man to
            look like his natural father, Philip II.
            The other view held by a team of archaeologists, that
            the hunter on horseback (Fig. 1) is King Philip III
            Arrhidaeus, is wrong for the following reasons:
            Hunting wild animals was considered truly dangerous
            and it was common sense that those participating in the
            sport should be physically fit, bold, quick-thinking,
            experienced and agile.

            Philip III Arrhidaeus suffered from a physical
            disability, an incurable mental disease, was
            mentally retarded and after the death of
            Alexander the Great was made king due to
            the order of succession to the throne, given
            that he was Alexander's half-brother and
            there was no other successor, other than the
            expected son of Alexander (Ploutarch,
            Diodorus Siculus).Therefore, it is out of the
            question that Philip III Arrhidaeus was the
            lion-hunter on horseback.


            A brief extract of evidence contained in the recently
            published book The Royal Tomb II at Vergina Reveals
            Alexander the Great by historian researcher
            Triandafyllos D. Papazois

            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              #7
              "Indeed for most scholars working in fourth-century Macedonia, the original attribution by Andronikos now seems doubtful," - Winthrop Lindsay Adams, a professor of history at the University of Utah.
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • Bratot
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2855

                #8
                Not Philip II of Macedon
                Skeleton from Vergina royal tomb reappraised.

                A skeleton thought by some to be that of King Philip II of Macedon, is not, in fact, that of the accomplished military leader and father of Alexander the Great, but rather one of Alexander's half brothers, Philip III Arrhidaeus, a far less prominent figure in the ancient world,according to a new study published in the April 21 edition of the journal Science



                A whole text soon to be published in Macedonian:

                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                Comment

                • Pelister
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2742

                  #9
                  Interesting stuff.

                  I wonder what the ancient tomb found in the Prilep region might actually uncover, if anything?

                  Comment

                  • osiris
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1969

                    #10
                    i also wonder why they dont do a dna test on the remains and compare it to the dna of andronikus family or of any of the other self proclaimed greek macedonians who came over from turkey a few generations ago.

                    Comment

                    • TrueMacedonian
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3823

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                      Interesting stuff.

                      I wonder what the ancient tomb found in the Prilep region might actually uncover, if anything?
                      Who were the dominant upper class families in the Prilep region?

                      Comment

                      • osiris
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1969

                        #12
                        Who were the dominant upper class families in the Prilep region?
                        __________________

                        rogis family

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                          Who were the dominant upper class families in the Prilep region?
                          Parmenion and Cleitus I think?

                          Comment

                          • Napoleon
                            Junior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 98

                            #14
                            I remember reading somewhere sometime ago that the Tomb was supposed to be that of Philip V who ruled Macedonia some 100 years after Philip II. If this is true, then it would tend to support certain scholars who have claimed that the actual style of the tomb dates to a much later period then the one to which Philip II belonged.

                            As far as Andronikos goes, as I've said many times before, he tried so hard to find a 'Greek' origin for the ancient Macedonians when he coundn't even prove a conclusive 'Greek' origin for himself as he was born in Bursa, Turkey...ironic isn't it.

                            Although nobody doubts that the ancient Macedonian ruling elite were influenced by Greek culture which shows in the style of the 'Vergina' tombs...I also think they have much more in common to the discovered Royal tombs of the Thracians.

                            Thracian Tombs




                            Comment

                            • Epirot
                              Member
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 399

                              #15
                              The type of Vergina cemetery is Tumulus, is not?
                              As far I know, Tumulus were a characteristic types of burial amongst Illyrians and Thracians. I'd like to know if is it discovered by archaeology anything related with Illyrians or Thracians in that tomb?
                              IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X