Busting the "Vergina Tomb" myth

[Amphipolis]

Since this is already compared to the mosaic of Amphipolis let me post it again:

[Amphipolis]

Greek archaeologists have discovered pieces of the mask which Macedonian king Philip II wore as chief priest in the Orphic mysteries. The debris have been found in Tomb II in the capital of the Macedonian kingdom of Aigai (modern Vergina).

The traces of minerals huntite and porphyry in the 350 bones found in the two gold boxes (larnax) confirm the theory that an artfully constructed mask which he used during his lifetime had been put on the face of the dead man before he was placed on the funeral-pile. This was performed as a tribute and in recognition to his contribution.

The new finds as well as those discovered in the last 4 years of excavation will be presented at a ceremony at the Archaeological Museum of Thessaloniki by the Interdisciplinary Group of University Excavations in Vergina.

The statements of the head of research and director of the Laboratory of Archaeometry at Democritus Institute, Yannis Maniatis, who discovered the huntite and the porphyry on the bones and believes that it is related to a mask, arouse interest. "It was a very complex structure created by many layers and fabric, which we find for the first time in the region of Macedonia. We have found 6-7 layers of huntite and porphyry. This is the mask that Philip wore during religious ceremonies, probably as a priest in the Orphic mysteries. The mask was a personal and sacred object that accompanied the deceased in the grave and was burned with him or her", says the researcher for Ethnos newspaper.

The study of the debris performed so far dispels the theory that it was a piece of cloth, with which bones had been wrapped before they were burned. However, it is still not clear where the huntite mineral which is extremely rare came from.

The archaeologist Dimosthenis Kehayas who is studying the prints of fabric found on the bone material found, has conducted a similar study. His prior research is focused on the remains of crimson-coloured cloth with which the bones of the dead were wrapped. This is a very ancient practice, which however was rare in Ancient Macedonia.

At the same time, at the ceremony in the Archaeological Museum of Thessaloniki anthropologist Theodore Antikas will present new findings on the skeletons found in the tomb, from which it becomes completely clear that the dead people are Macedonian king Philip II and the daughter of the Scythian king Atheios.

The anthropological analysis of the bones showed that the man had suffered from chronic sinusitis and probably had had serious vision problems, while the degenerative changes show that he had been a 41-49 year-old rider. In addition, a wound has been found on the left hand. A fact which Demosthenes mentions in one of his famous speeches.

As regards the female bones found in tomb II, the study showed that they belonged to a woman aged about 32 years, whose left leg had been broken and she had been lame. According to data, the woman had been an experienced rider and warrior. This is evidenced by the rich armoury of spears, arrows and quiver that have been found in her grave.

These findings exclude the possibility of the so far popular assumptions that the woman was Cleopatra or Meda (wife of Philip II) and Eurydice (wife of Philip III Arrhidaeus) and reinforce the theory that it was a daughter of the Scythian king Atheios, whose name is not known.

[Nikolaj]

Here is a message I received from a member named Amphipolis, which may be of some interest and relevance to this topic.

Will give it a read tomorrow morning.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is a message I received from a member named Amphipolis, which may be of some interest and relevance to this topic.

Hello,

I accidentally fell on this British article that studies the bones of the body found in the Vergina Tomb. While this article supports it is Phillip, what I found more interesting is that it is full of pictures, the whole skeleton, details of the scull etc.

I admit I hadn't seen this for more than 10 years and I think it would be a good idea to share this with the forum members.

http://www.medsci.org/v07p00s1.pdf

[George S.]

ok can someone explain to me i went to Greece in 2006.I asked the locals why is it that there is hardly anything in the museum to do with Macedonia.The answer was they are not to comment to one about Macedonia any artifacts on Macedonia have been transferred to northern geece .Someone has got something to hide?In Athens abandoned oned dogs everywhere you look not only this lots and lots of stray and abandoned dogs with dog excerement everywhere.Gone to the dogs has a new meaning.one one has to watch out they don't step into dogshit.

[Dejan]

Went to Vergina and the tombs back in 2004. Spoke to some locals, and even one official who worked in/around the tombs. Guess what language I used?

[Sweet Sixteen]

you forgot to mention the type of greeks it the greeks from Bulgaria and greeks from asia mynor in the population exchanges.You say kutles was greek .Are you sure it wasn't helenised??Kutlesh has got an sh not es at the end.If it always was vergina why change it from kutlesh.I'll tell you why to make it all look greek.Originally vergina was not the name name.THe Macedonian name has a meaning like a place in the sun.Isn't it amazing after the discovery of 1977 the greeks were realizing the star of vergina had significance for the Macedonians so they adopted it..SO why insist that it was greek when they didn't know it existed.

Knchov's and Brancoff's statistics are from 1900 and 1905 BEFORE the population exchanges. They spell it as Kutliš and Koutliche respectively.

Koutles and Barbes were rather settlements, not villages, and were somehow merged in the new village of Vergina, when 400 refugees came in 1922. Vergina was a new name given at 1922.

[George S.]

you forgot to mention the type of greeks it the greeks from Bulgaria and greeks from asia mynor in the population exchanges.You say kutles was greek .Are you sure it wasn't helenised??Kutlesh has got an sh not es at the end.If it always was vergina why change it from kutlesh.I'll tell you why to make it all look greek.Originally vergina was not the name name.THe Macedonian name has a meaning like a place in the sun.Isn't it amazing after the discovery of 1977 the greeks were realizing the star of vergina had significance for the Macedonians so they adopted it..SO why insist that it was greek when they didn't know it existed.

[Sweet Sixteen]

e know how they the greeks discovered the Macedonian toombs.how did they rename them from kutlesh what does vergina mean Vergin???Kutlesh is the Macedonian name.

I have often read something like this, but... surprise-surprise Koutles, Barbes and Palatitsa, all three of them had exclusively Greek-speaking population at 1900, according to Knchov and Brancoff.

http://www.lithoksou.net/p/plithysmos-kai-oikismoi-tis-perioxis-beroias-1886-%E2%80%93-1927

I'm not sure where each one was, but the main tomb is IN the village of Vergina.

Palatitsa (little palace) was the main village (of 500 people) nearby Vergina, and Koutles and Barbes were smaller ones (of 100 and 75 people respectively) probably where Vergina is today.

Today Vergina has a population of 1200 and Palatitsa has 830 people.


===

[George S.]

e know how they the greeks discovered the Macedonian toombs.how did they rename them from kutlesh what does vergina mean Vergin???Kutlesh is the Macedonian name.

[Sweet Sixteen]

A British documentary on Vergina excavations, probably from late 1980s.

Macedonia : Documentary on the Ancient Civilization of Macedonia - YouTube

[George S.]

yes how did the grks aquire those riches,Have they allways been greek or was it after the Balkan wars,also how did they lie their way to say that the general population is not Macedonian,call them slavophones,slavs,.They are indigenous people endopi to the Aegean land.Also I'm not sure but in one of the articles one of the professors said the finds were too fantastic to be greek ellada.As soon as they said that bang he was gone.The claim for a race to be greek at the same time to call itself cannot substantiate itself.reeks ass oon as they found the Macedonian toombs renamed the territories to northern Greece.Then after Macedonia got its independence from Yugoslavia they the greek govt quickly renamed northern Greece to the province of Macedonia.Today we have a conflict supposedly by Greece saying their province Macedonia conflicts with Macedonia as a name for a country rep of Macedonia.ZThis is the biggest lie or furfy ever told on the planet.Maceonia's name is derived from the people identifying & area and its a constitutional name.So Greece has no real basis except to deny & offer lies for their reason to hold Macedonia to ransom.The fact is the greeks have no basis for their land grab in 1912.YOU let Macedonia go into nato & eu Macedonia will spill the beans on Greece of its committed atrocities on the Macedonian nation.What name dispute?? it's only in the greek govt's mind.Made up obstacles to prevent Macedonia from entering the eu etc.
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[Sweet Sixteen]

Anyone got a clue on how thick these coins are? From the angle the picture was taken three of them look as thin as Aluminum foil. Does anyone have an idea why some have perfect little holes in them?

They are not coins, they're golden rosettes (rodax), jewelries, amulets and small trays.

[Redsun]

urns.jpg

Thank you SS, When I first heard about the Urns I had to see them, they look nice, the art on the urns are great I have never seen anything like it. Wish they had pictures of the swords.

http://asset.tovima.gr/vimawebstatic//FBEA47BA66EBCAAB1045D36AABA4094E.jpg

I failed a picture attachment.

Anyone got a clue on how thick these coins are? http://asset.tovima.gr/vimawebstatic...37EDFDDC7D.jpg
From the angle the picture was taken three of them look as thin as Aluminum foil. Does anyone have an idea why some have perfect little holes in them?

[Sweet Sixteen]

You can find a slide show here:

http://www.tovima.gr/culture/article/?aid=576523

I submit a Google translation:

Members of the dynasty Temenid, even the King Cassander himself or one of his sons attaches director of Q ' Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities , Angeliki Kottaridi , burial cluster found in Vergina .

Mrs Kottaridi proceeded to "scientifically bold " assumptions about the disclosure of five new royal tombs during his presentation of the afternoon Thursday in archaeological conference AUTH Q. director of Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities , Angeliki Kottaridi .

King Cassander was one of the successors of Alexander the Great and husband of his sister , Thessaloniki.

In its Communication entitled "Reformation - emergence of the Royal Necropolis of Goats . Protection and improvement of the cemetery of tumuli and burial cluster Temenid " Mrs Kottaridi announced that Total (since 1996 until today ) 20 tombs dating from the Archaic (first half of the 6th century . ) Until the early Hellenistic period ( late 4th - early 3rd century BC.) .

" We are investigating the cluster Temenid located in the southwest corner of the cemetery of tumuli and marks the route of the ancient road that led from the northwest gate of the city- where the burial cluster of queen - to the area buried by Philip II and D Alexander , son of Alexander the Great and Roxane for the identification of the tomb where no one so far has not raised any objection , "said Mr Kottaridi .

Referring to another tomb said : " Lots of pottery , mainly elegant white urns , features oil chamber of funeral ceremonies , all dating around 420-410 BC , while an iron sword escaped from robbers indicates that the tomb belongs to a warrior , perhaps King Perdiccas II ( 454-413 BC), who had fought hard to retain an independent kingdom in the midst of the Peloponnesian war "

"While everyone is looted tombs , the presence of residual impressive firefights with rich burial offerings ( vessels and weapons ) to withdraw descriptions of the Homeric epics and the size and form of its own monuments led us to connect with family Temenid ."

Excavations of Q ' Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities, which are chaired by Mrs Kottaridi financed under NSRF project .

Earlier, the director of the excavation at Vergina university professor of archeology AUTH (and MEP ) , Chryssoula Paliadeli presented new evidence that the royal tomb at Vergina belongs to King Philip II .
By way of answer to a series of scientific data to those - Greeks and foreign colleagues - have at times questioned the scientific conclusions of Manolis Andronikos , Mrs Paliadeli - as head of the university excavation , returned from 2010 until today the review of the skeletal material from tomb II of Great Tumulus at Vergina , reassessing the earlier investigations with the assistance of medical and physicochemical tests.

"For the dead chamber new findings lead to a more precise determination of the age ( 41-49 years) , and identify degenerative , chronic diseases and activity indicators suggest that middle-aged man with strong horsemanship and military activity . These data , in combination with morphological alterations of bone - proving that the deceased was burned immediately after his death - weaken the theory of identification with Philip III Arrhidaios and enhance contrast, the grave of Philip II " argues in his contribution entitled " Skeletal material from the royal tombs of Vergina - Interpretive approaches in anthropological data " " professor Mrs Paliadeli .

Concerning " Still the vestibule ," Mrs Paliadeli argued that " new observations in bones not previously identified accurately identify most , age ( 30-34 years) , which precludes definitive three of the possible matches that have so far been proposed for its identity ( Cleopatra and Midas , women of Philip II and GERD / Eurydice , wife of Philip III ARIDEA ) . Morphological alterations attest that still burned , like the dead of the chamber , immediately after death , while the equestrian activity indicators say they rode for a long time . A fracture at the upper end of the left tibia caused shortening , atrophy and limp in her left leg , leading to the conclusion that the pair of greaves unequal vestibular owned and that most of the male weapons found on the site is hers '.

"These data ," concludes Mr Paliadeli " reinforce old case of NGLHammond for the identification of the dead with an unknown Skythissa , perhaps daughter of King General , without of course exclude the dead in the vestibule to recognize Avdata , wife of Philip II of Illyria . "

" The most important conclusion of the investigation ," he told the Athens News Agency , the head of the university excavation , " in terms of support not only from archaeological and anthropological view that the tomb of the Great Tumulus II to Philip II and the chronology of his death 336 BC . "