Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

[Soldier of Macedon]

As a complex amalgamation of a number of very different languages, it may be more conducive for linguistic researchers and people researching the history of what came to be referred to as Albania to view this language as a creole language. Simply having Indo-European characteristics doesn't make it Indo-European in my opinion.

Both Greek and Albanian are 'creole' languages of some sort, as they both developed from a hybrid of unrelated languages. The Slavic languages, on the other hand, differ somewhat, as they are a hybrid of related languages. The Paleo-Balkan and Baltic tongues were merely homogenised by the related Common Slavic - which itself was a lingua franca based on the Scythian or Danubian Slavic languages, located centrally between the Baltic north and Balkan south.

[Ottoman]

Its not that bad. Its more or less accurate.

Yeah but still mate, there is a lot of shit there, I dont use wikipedia as a source when looking up things.

[Voltron]

There is a lot of propaganda on wikipedia, cannot take it serious anymore, just like wiki answers.

Im not saying all articles or answers are bad but there is a lot of bullshit there.

Its not that bad. Its more or less accurate.

[Voltron]

The Polish are starting to do this too, Hitlerowicz, Staliniewski. I foresee complications.




John Wilkes has made some progress in the area of unraveling the revisionism that has weighed down authentic scholarship concerning the Modern Albanians through his research concerning the Ancient Illyrians, but I don’t believe he has ever put forward a formal thesis. Bratot posted some excellent documentation concerning the subject a while back that you would probably be interested in. I can’t seem to locate it at the moment, but it was extremely informative. A little perseverance and the right keyword should get you what you’re looking for.

It’s evident that many different populations merged together in different ways over time to form what would come to be considered Albanian. Albania doesn’t have a history as much as it has a set of histories that are now intertwined due to the formation of the modern nation states. Oversimplification has plagued research in this area by anachronistically ascribing a singularity where there clearly never was one. A certain percentage of Albanians are indigenous as evidenced by their genetic similarity to many Croatians and Macedonians and a certain percentage came from other areas of the world.

Heard of Wikes often but never had a chance to read his material. Il do a search for Bratots info as well. Thanks

[Voltron]

So in essence to be a Greek is no different to be an American.
Can we agree on this?

No, unfortuantly we cant agree. America celebrates their diversities. May 5 for Mexicans. February for Blacks. Pulaski Day for the Polish. March 25th for Greeks, ect, ect. Greece does not have that concept because Greeks and whoever self declares themselves as Greeks have the same traditions or culture ( homogenos ).

I mentioned individuals as an example. In another thread regarding Arvanties, I listed them as a group that had fully assimilated to the Greek ethnos. I provided a definition for assimilation and I dont think I got an answer. Same goes for Vlachs although for the latter I said that it is completely plausible that certain groups of Vlachs are in fact Latinised Greeks. In all of the above cases that does not mean there are no Greeks. I use the exception TO the rule where some use the exception AS the rule which is wrong. Anyway, I dont want to bog down this thread with this all over again.

[Ottoman]

Thats just how we Greeks call him Daskalot. I wont claim that he is Greek. Even in Wiki they have him listed as an Albanian. He is worthy of a thread in itself.

There is a lot of propaganda on wikipedia, cannot take it serious anymore, just like wiki answers.

Im not saying all articles or answers are bad but there is a lot of bullshit there.

[Sovius]

The Polish are starting to do this too, Hitlerowicz, Staliniewski. I foresee complications.

Nice Post Sovius, Do you know if the Caucausian theory is being accepted lately ? I mean the wording connection seems more than coiincidence. What about toponyms in Albania ?

Il also try to read up on them, Albania is really is a unique case in the balkans. Their uniqueness is the reasons Albanians give regarding their Illyrian heritage, but Im not so sure anymore. Il see if I can find Byzantine records of them.

John Wilkes has made some progress in the area of unraveling the revisionism that has weighed down authentic scholarship concerning the Modern Albanians through his research concerning the Ancient Illyrians, but I don’t believe he has ever put forward a formal thesis. Bratot posted some excellent documentation concerning the subject a while back that you would probably be interested in. I can’t seem to locate it at the moment, but it was extremely informative. A little perseverance and the right keyword should get you what you’re looking for.

It’s evident that many different populations merged together in different ways over time to form what would come to be considered Albanian. Albania doesn’t have a history as much as it has a set of histories that are now intertwined due to the formation of the modern nation states. Oversimplification has plagued research in this area by anachronistically ascribing a singularity where there clearly never was one. A certain percentage of Albanians are indigenous as evidenced by their genetic similarity to many Croatians and Macedonians and a certain percentage came from other areas of the world.

[Daskalot]

It depends on what context your asking Daskalot. If its an attempt to water down the Greek Ethnos than the answer is No, Its not just anybody. Only to individuals that have fully embodied themselves to the Hellenic traditions, and culture. Of course it would be harder for a Chinaman, Pigmy or Eskimo to meet the requirements. But for individuals from the balkans it would be a small difference. Thats my take on it.

So in essence to be a Greek is no different to be an American.
Can we agree on this?

[Voltron]

It depends on what context your asking Daskalot. If its an attempt to water down the Greek Ethnos than the answer is No, Its not just anybody. Only to individuals that have fully embodied themselves to the Hellenic traditions, and culture. Of course it would be harder for a Chinaman, Pigmy or Eskimo to meet the requirements. But for individuals from the balkans it would be a small difference. Thats my take on it.

[Daskalot]

Its a form of respect. Anybody that sheds blood for us is one of us. We dont go into details.

So anyone can become a Greek like yourself and thus have an equal right as you yourself to claim Ancient Hellenic history as his/hers?

[Voltron]

Its a form of respect. Anybody that sheds blood for us is one of us. We dont go into details.

[Daskalot]

Not necessarily Daskalot. I think its quite normal to use your native tongue when referring to others.

I find Greeks doing this a lot. Just to give you an example from more modern times, Kottas. Most Greeks considers him as Greek, why?

[Voltron]

Not necessarily Daskalot. I think its quite normal to use your native tongue when referring to others.

[Daskalot]

Thats just how we Greeks call him Daskalot. I wont claim that he is Greek. Even in Wiki they have him listed as an Albanian. He is worthy of a thread in itself.

I know you Greeks call him like that, so why are you Hellenizing his and others names? Will this make future Greeks claim him as theirs based on the Greek sounding name?

[Voltron]

Thats just how we Greeks call him Daskalot. I wont claim that he is Greek. Even in Wiki they have him listed as an Albanian. He is worthy of a thread in itself.