Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

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  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
    Thats just how we Greeks call him Daskalot. I wont claim that he is Greek. Even in Wiki they have him listed as an Albanian. He is worthy of a thread in itself.
    I know you Greeks call him like that, so why are you Hellenizing his and others names? Will this make future Greeks claim him as theirs based on the Greek sounding name?
    Macedonian Truth Organisation

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    • Voltron
      Banned
      • Jan 2011
      • 1362

      Not necessarily Daskalot. I think its quite normal to use your native tongue when referring to others.

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      • Daskalot
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 4345

        Originally posted by Voltron View Post
        Not necessarily Daskalot. I think its quite normal to use your native tongue when referring to others.
        I find Greeks doing this a lot. Just to give you an example from more modern times, Kottas. Most Greeks considers him as Greek, why?
        Macedonian Truth Organisation

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        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          Its a form of respect. Anybody that sheds blood for us is one of us. We dont go into details.

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          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
            Its a form of respect. Anybody that sheds blood for us is one of us. We dont go into details.
            So anyone can become a Greek like yourself and thus have an equal right as you yourself to claim Ancient Hellenic history as his/hers?
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

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            • Voltron
              Banned
              • Jan 2011
              • 1362

              It depends on what context your asking Daskalot. If its an attempt to water down the Greek Ethnos than the answer is No, Its not just anybody. Only to individuals that have fully embodied themselves to the Hellenic traditions, and culture. Of course it would be harder for a Chinaman, Pigmy or Eskimo to meet the requirements. But for individuals from the balkans it would be a small difference. Thats my take on it.

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              • Daskalot
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 4345

                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                It depends on what context your asking Daskalot. If its an attempt to water down the Greek Ethnos than the answer is No, Its not just anybody. Only to individuals that have fully embodied themselves to the Hellenic traditions, and culture. Of course it would be harder for a Chinaman, Pigmy or Eskimo to meet the requirements. But for individuals from the balkans it would be a small difference. Thats my take on it.
                So in essence to be a Greek is no different to be an American.
                Can we agree on this?
                Macedonian Truth Organisation

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                • Sovius
                  Member
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 241

                  The Polish are starting to do this too, Hitlerowicz, Staliniewski. I foresee complications.


                  Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                  Nice Post Sovius, Do you know if the Caucausian theory is being accepted lately ? I mean the wording connection seems more than coiincidence. What about toponyms in Albania ?

                  Il also try to read up on them, Albania is really is a unique case in the balkans. Their uniqueness is the reasons Albanians give regarding their Illyrian heritage, but Im not so sure anymore. Il see if I can find Byzantine records of them.
                  John Wilkes has made some progress in the area of unraveling the revisionism that has weighed down authentic scholarship concerning the Modern Albanians through his research concerning the Ancient Illyrians, but I donít believe he has ever put forward a formal thesis. Bratot posted some excellent documentation concerning the subject a while back that you would probably be interested in. I canít seem to locate it at the moment, but it was extremely informative. A little perseverance and the right keyword should get you what youíre looking for.

                  Itís evident that many different populations merged together in different ways over time to form what would come to be considered Albanian. Albania doesnít have a history as much as it has a set of histories that are now intertwined due to the formation of the modern nation states. Oversimplification has plagued research in this area by anachronistically ascribing a singularity where there clearly never was one. A certain percentage of Albanians are indigenous as evidenced by their genetic similarity to many Croatians and Macedonians and a certain percentage came from other areas of the world.

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                  • Ottoman
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 203

                    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                    Thats just how we Greeks call him Daskalot. I wont claim that he is Greek. Even in Wiki they have him listed as an Albanian. He is worthy of a thread in itself.
                    There is a lot of propaganda on wikipedia, cannot take it serious anymore, just like wiki answers.

                    Im not saying all articles or answers are bad but there is a lot of bullshit there.

                    Comment

                    • Voltron
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 1362

                      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                      So in essence to be a Greek is no different to be an American.
                      Can we agree on this?
                      No, unfortuantly we cant agree. America celebrates their diversities. May 5 for Mexicans. February for Blacks. Pulaski Day for the Polish. March 25th for Greeks, ect, ect. Greece does not have that concept because Greeks and whoever self declares themselves as Greeks have the same traditions or culture ( homogenos ).

                      I mentioned individuals as an example. In another thread regarding Arvanties, I listed them as a group that had fully assimilated to the Greek ethnos. I provided a definition for assimilation and I dont think I got an answer. Same goes for Vlachs although for the latter I said that it is completely plausible that certain groups of Vlachs are in fact Latinised Greeks. In all of the above cases that does not mean there are no Greeks. I use the exception TO the rule where some use the exception AS the rule which is wrong. Anyway, I dont want to bog down this thread with this all over again.

                      Comment

                      • Voltron
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1362

                        Originally posted by Sovius View Post
                        The Polish are starting to do this too, Hitlerowicz, Staliniewski. I foresee complications.




                        John Wilkes has made some progress in the area of unraveling the revisionism that has weighed down authentic scholarship concerning the Modern Albanians through his research concerning the Ancient Illyrians, but I donít believe he has ever put forward a formal thesis. Bratot posted some excellent documentation concerning the subject a while back that you would probably be interested in. I canít seem to locate it at the moment, but it was extremely informative. A little perseverance and the right keyword should get you what youíre looking for.

                        Itís evident that many different populations merged together in different ways over time to form what would come to be considered Albanian. Albania doesnít have a history as much as it has a set of histories that are now intertwined due to the formation of the modern nation states. Oversimplification has plagued research in this area by anachronistically ascribing a singularity where there clearly never was one. A certain percentage of Albanians are indigenous as evidenced by their genetic similarity to many Croatians and Macedonians and a certain percentage came from other areas of the world.
                        Heard of Wikes often but never had a chance to read his material. Il do a search for Bratots info as well. Thanks

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                        • Voltron
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1362

                          Originally posted by Ottoman View Post
                          There is a lot of propaganda on wikipedia, cannot take it serious anymore, just like wiki answers.

                          Im not saying all articles or answers are bad but there is a lot of bullshit there.
                          Its not that bad. Its more or less accurate.

                          Comment

                          • Ottoman
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 203

                            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                            Its not that bad. Its more or less accurate.
                            Yeah but still mate, there is a lot of shit there, I dont use wikipedia as a source when looking up things.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Originally posted by Sovius View Post
                              As a complex amalgamation of a number of very different languages, it may be more conducive for linguistic researchers and people researching the history of what came to be referred to as Albania to view this language as a creole language. Simply having Indo-European characteristics doesn't make it Indo-European in my opinion.
                              Both Greek and Albanian are 'creole' languages of some sort, as they both developed from a hybrid of unrelated languages. The Slavic languages, on the other hand, differ somewhat, as they are a hybrid of related languages. The Paleo-Balkan and Baltic tongues were merely homogenised by the related Common Slavic - which itself was a lingua franca based on the Scythian or Danubian Slavic languages, located centrally between the Baltic north and Balkan south.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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                              • Sovius
                                Member
                                • Apr 2009
                                • 241

                                This evolutionary path would explain a number of things. Many words that fall under the Western Slavic language classification are simply contracted variations of what are generally considered Baltic (Aestian/Asian?) words. Contractions indicate that the pace of life in this vast area quickened. Roads and urbanization provide an archeologically verifiable explanation for this phenomenon, as well as, the means through which such changes occurred.

                                The Klyosovian Interpretative Model, as it pertains to the expansion of R1a1 populations throughout Eurasia and Western Europe in relation to basic geo-linguistic rules of thumb, suggests that the language or set of languages spoken by people north of the Danube had to be more similar to what is commonly regarded as Indo-Iranic, by virtue of the fact that many people from Central and Eastern Europe (and I do mean many) are the direct biological descendents of the same populations who eventually migrated into Northern India. People from Central and Eastern Europe no longer use many of the words preserved in Avestian (Aestian?) and Ancient Indian texts. This is evidence of innovation at or near the center of a culture or set of similar cultures.

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