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Old 02-07-2019, 12:51 PM   #1
nushevski77
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Default Does Macedonia belong to the Balkan or Aegean world

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Originally Posted by sydney View Post
Nushevski, I admire your need to understand who we are. I understand your sense of confusion about your identity. But you need to spend more time reading and listening on this forum. Engage wisely. Perhaps you could have started this as a thread discussing whether Macedonia belongs to the Balkan or Aegean world, both in modern times and the past. Culturally speaking there is no debate - you’re Macedonian.
Just would like to start a new thread based off of what Sydney said/suggested in my last thread: thread discussing whether Macedonia belongs to the Balkan or Aegean world, both in modern times and the past.

this is the question, I felt it was a good idea to start a new thread since the last one went off topic and was about personal stuff, so thanks.

*also the title was to long I just realized so it was cut off but the title is the question basically
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:43 PM   #2
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Sort of on the crossroads of both. Even in antiquity Macedonia was divided into an 'Upper' and 'Lower'. Lower Macedonia was were the capital and other towns were located, it was the fertile flat plain that was utilised for agriculture and had access to the Aegean Sea. Upper Macedonia was ruggid and inhabited by Illyrian tribes who remained largely independent of the Macedonian government until Philip II brought them under the control of Pella. Even here we can see the crossroads between Balkan and Aegean.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:42 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
Sort of on the crossroads of both. Even in antiquity Macedonia was divided into an 'Upper' and 'Lower'. Lower Macedonia was were the capital and other towns were located, it was the fertile flat plain that was utilised for agriculture and had access to the Aegean Sea. Upper Macedonia was ruggid and inhabited by Illyrian tribes who remained largely independent of the Macedonian government until Philip II brought them under the control of Pella. Even here we can see the crossroads between Balkan and Aegean.
this is really interesting I never knew that there was a divide like that, I always thought everyone was homogenous but it makes sense logistically with the difference from the terrain.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:13 PM   #4
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Macedonia has always been at a crossroads of civilizations and cultures, but it belongs to the Balkans.

I would disagree with the idea that it belongs to the Aegean world. I am not sure what it means as a 'definition' - when I think of the Aegean I think of Cyprus, the islands, etc.

I would say Macedonia belonged/belongs to the Slavic world and civilization for obvious reasons: language, the Cyrillic alphabet having its roots in Macedonia, Ohrid literary school. This to me is a no-brainer if you will.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:56 PM   #5
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Carlin, applying your beliefs only with a modern lens makes sense but doesn’t make it generally conclusive. The term Aegean - for me - describes pre-Greek civilisations south of the Balkans and later on Hellenistic culture. Macedonia became to be Aegean (most likely both) but was never originally Aegean. Did Macedonia under Roman rule start to Balkanise again? Most likely considering the separation of Macedonia into provinces. The blip in my timeline is what happened next such as Christianity and the prescribed movement of peoples through these ages. If I try and align with your thinking that Macedonia belongs to a Slavic world, you’re saying language was the reason why. But we’re talking about geographic regions whereby peoples are influencing each other. The Balkans was never only ‘Slavic’ and still today is not only Slavic, so how can there be a Slavic world? Do you feel kinship with other ‘Slavs’?
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:06 PM   #6
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The Balkans was never only ‘Slavic’ and still today is not only Slavic, so how can there be a Slavic world? Do you feel kinship with other ‘Slavs’?
Even if you look at it only from a modern perspective I don't see how anyone could say "Slavic world". Macedonia's last 500 years are characterized by Ottoman occupation and the struggle against it. The ottomans had a massive and lasting impact. Our food, language, music, and customs all changed in those centuries. I don't see how "Slavic" peoples in Ukraine or Poland could have gone through similar changes culturally.

Another large part of our identity our Orthodox Christian faith I see as rooted in south east Europe not in "Slavic" culture.

I fail to see "Slavic-ness" in any part of our culture apart form our spoken language, while the written language is based off of Greek and originated in Macedonia.

Antiquity was not Slavic, Roman period was not Slavic, then maybe for a period their was Slavic influence, then Byzantine and Ottoman again not Slavic. The Slavs may or may not have had an influence for a few centuries in the middle of our existence timeline and yet somehow their contribution is the only one that stuck?

I don't get it.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:12 PM   #7
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Bang on Gocka.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:12 PM   #8
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Even if you look at it only from a modern perspective I don't see how anyone could say "Slavic world". Macedonia's last 500 years are characterized by Ottoman occupation and the struggle against it. The ottomans had a massive and lasting impact. Our food, language, music, and customs all changed in those centuries. I don't see how "Slavic" peoples in Ukraine or Poland could have gone through similar changes culturally.

Another large part of our identity our Orthodox Christian faith I see as rooted in south east Europe not in "Slavic" culture.

I fail to see "Slavic-ness" in any part of our culture apart form our spoken language, while the written language is based off of Greek and originated in Macedonia.

Antiquity was not Slavic, Roman period was not Slavic, then maybe for a period their was Slavic influence, then Byzantine and Ottoman again not Slavic. The Slavs may or may not have had an influence for a few centuries in the middle of our existence timeline and yet somehow their contribution is the only one that stuck?

I don't get it.
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:45 AM   #9
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Slavic world/civilization in a sense that Slavs are an Indo-European ethno-linguistic group who speak various Slavic languages - and yes Slavs are diverse both genetically and culturally. Language is very much an important 'mark' of culture and Macedonian belongs to it the same way Italian or Catalan might belong to the Latin/Romance group of languages. Top points for Macedonia having been the birthplace of both the Glagolitic script and Cyrillic script.

I did specify in my initial response (the first sentence) that Macedonia belongs to the Balkans. This encompasses the Ottoman impact as well as the Balkan Sprachbund, and other markers (i.e. Orthodox faith and culture, "Byzantine" civilization).

In the end, if you really want to get nitpicky Macedonia belongs to a few different "worlds" and "civilizations" hence the crossroads of civilizations and cultures.


Medieval, Slavic Macedonia (c. 600 - c. 1400):
http://media.hoover.org/sites/defaul..._Rossos_19.pdf

Last edited by Carlin15; 02-09-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #10
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Slavic world/civilization in a sense that Slavs are an Indo-European ethno-linguistic group who speak various Slavic languages - and yes Slavs are diverse both genetically and culturally.

Sure, Slavic world because we speak a language found in the same language family and share some common cultural bonds. You're way out of line, though, by calling it ethno-linguistic. Unless you have some knowledge about us having a common ethnicity (or even ancestry) with the Poles and Russians?

This need not only to feel, but to actually think, that there is this proximal connection to Slavic groups outside the Balkans is quite disappointing. There is little proof of it. It's just a remnant of outdated Russian and Yugoslav propaganda.

I just wonder if you'd consider the ethnic English part of the Germanic ethno-linguistic group because they share some ancestry, culture and linguistic roots? Or the Norwegians and the Germans? I wonder if the Mexicans and Venezuelans feel this attached to Spain and the Romance-speaking people because they share a common language and some ancestry/genetics?
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