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Old 08-23-2010, 05:53 AM   #111
Bratot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer MakeDonski View Post
I am very suspicious when for any name, Hellenic etymology is provided .
While ago,at some of our forums,when we were discussed origin of name of Bogdan , Bratot has pointed some links with explanations that
Bogdan originated from Theodore
.
Precisely

Quote:
old Russ. spelling of proper n. Feodor (Theodore).
http://books.google.pl/books?id=_dQP...age&q=&f=false

Od staroslovenski (makedonski):

Имя Богдан пришло из старославянского языка, где появилось от греческого имени; Богдан означает - данный Богом

Fediuk, form of Fedka, dim. of Fedor old Russ. spelling of proper n. Feodor (Theodore) .Patr. Fedorowicz .
Heinrich Walter Guggenheimer,Eva H. Guggenheimer"Jewish family names and their origins: an etymological dictionary " [Hoboken, N.J.] : Ktav Pub. House, 1992. page... 236
I doubt that
Origin of the word Bogdan according to letter changes researches is out of name of
Macedon
Македон
because ,
M-> B
K->G

MaiKe
BaiGe
BaGa
Bog


while for name of Theodorus

Theodorus =Teos-God + dorus~gift
My opinion is that Theόs has it's root at Deus ,and Deus or f. *Deusa has its possible origin in our word Dusa-Душа standing for Soul



http://my.opera.com/Homer%20MakeDons...in-and-meaning

At least this 'thanatos' - 'athanatos' should be checked out .
Bogdan further support for my explanation with:


Bagdad:

Although there is no dispute over its Iranian origin,[3] there have been several rival proposals as to its specific etymology. The most reliable and most widely accepted among these is that the name is a Middle Persian compound of Bag "god" + dād "given", translating to "God-given" or "God's gift", whence Modern Persian Baɣdād. Another leading proposal is that the name comes from Middle Persian Bāgh-dād "The Given Garden". The name is pre-Islamic and the origins are unclear, but it is related to previous settlements, which did not have any political or commercial power, making it a virtually new foundation in the time of the Abbasids [4]. Mansur called the city “Madinat as-Salam”, or “City of Peace”, as a reference to paradise [5]. This was the official name on coins, weights, and other things.



Баг-Бог — (Слав.) Бог; славянское имя греческого Вакха, чье имя стало прототипом имени Бог или Bagh и bog или bogh; по русски Бог. Источник: Теософский словарь … (Религиозные термины)

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dic_e...91%D0%90%D0%93

Bāgh (Persian: باغ) is a word common to Persian,[1] Kurdish, Lurish, Urdu and Azarbaijani and means garden and orchard, specifically one containing fruit- and flower-bearing trees.[2] In Persian, the plural of Bāgh is Bāgh-hā (باغها or باغ ها) and in kurdish, Baxan (بيغان).

In Armenian the word Bagh, pronounced Bakhg, means Garden or field. The Old Persian word Baga, or Bag, as in such word as Baghdād, means God [3][4] and should not be confused with Bāgh. Similarly for the Avestan word Bagh (note the difference between a and ā) and the Vedic Sanskrit word Bhag, both of which also mean God.[5]

The Russian language utilizes the words bakhcha (бахча) and bakhchevye kultury (бахчевые культуры) to designate melons and gourds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh_(garden)

And in Macedonian language we do have Bog for God and Bavcha for Garden.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:06 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratot View Post
The stem you should compare is Bar/Mar or Brb/Mrm = Br/Mr

Alike this ex.

http://www.mling.ru/iazik/makedonski...makedonski.pdf

and the connection is based on the meaning.
That is a good start, I admit, it bring us closer to the initial point that Mak > Bag. The only problem with the source you posted it is that the V,B to M sound shift is found in front of N sound, vn,bn > mn and that the sound shift is from B to M, not as initially stated that M shifts to B, as HomerMakedonski stated.

I don't know if that is a problem, but is deffinitly a step foreward. If we can attest that any M>B shift is attested with M being infront of K, that would be great.

If that is the case, than the Phrygian Bagaios(pronouce Bageos) would be the first indicator that Make > Bage > Bog. Than it can be argued that Make was the initial word, shfting to Bage(os) and to modern Bog.

Samo napred, poleka izgleda mozhno.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:09 AM   #113
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Bratot, to your list add Bagaios, Phrygian Zeus (Βαγαῖος Ζεὺς Φρύγιος) and interprets the name as δοτῆρ ἑάων, "giver of good things". Source

Even today we say Bogat coming from Bog, meaning giver of good things.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:09 AM   #114
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Mentioning Pokorny ,

I remind myself over some his k->g change examples:

mak- 'skin, leather bag'

Indo-European Reflexes:

English
Old English: maga
Middle English: maw
English: maw stomach: where food goes when swallowed


W-Germanic
Old High German: mago n maw
N-Germanic
Old Norse: maGi n.masc maw
Baltic
Lithuanian: maKis n.masc purse
Masedonian meV n. meshe
____________
Ref:Julius Pokorny "Indogermanisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch"(Bern, 1959). P.696, РП 698, p.730.
link:
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/l...x/R/P1215.html
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:24 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makedonin View Post
The only problem with the source you posted it is that the V,B to M sound shift is found in front of N sound, vn,bn > mn and that the sound shift is from B to M, not as initially stated that M shifts to B, as HomerMakedonski stated.

I don't know if that is a problem, but is deffinitly a step foreward.
Samo napred, poleka izgleda mozhno.
And it is possible
stoMna -stoVna Malesevo dialect
From Koneski book
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:40 AM   #116
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At this stage I can't support what Homer proposed about Maike = Baige, but for the name of Macedonia I'm personally convinced for it's origin.

Great Mother Goddess or Cybele - Magna Mater culture the greatest cult in Minor Asia and Macedonia.

The Great Mother Goddess – Magna Mater – Culture of Govrlevo belongs to the period of Neolith, the world-accepted theory of the so-called Young Stone Age. It is the so-called time of the matriarchy, in the circle of cultures of the Mediterranean, but also of the east. ( My note: pay attention later on Egypt and China) That same matriarchy, probably does not mark the rule of the woman as such, which would encompass political practicing of power, but probably “rule” of female deities. Those that are part of life, but also those that are based on much deeper principles and differences of experiencing the world between the man and the woman. This is the Great Mother, the goddess that exists much longer than the neolith itself, even more than the matriarchy itself. The strength and the power that people give it and she gives to them are not the female ruling principles, but the immortal principles of time and space, but also time that does not pass, but exists, eternity that is not recognized. It is unusually calm, pretty as things that are not understood, but accepted when everybody has the need for it, and is always present in the home, in the sacredness of warmth and hearth. The artistic expression of this exceptional figure is the response to all doubts of and around its role in culture, which silently tells its story."


Govrlevo is a very interesting site since it opens many issues regarding our mythical past and the matriarchate as a significant background to the modern Feminine cult of Bogorodica, the Mother of Jesus, our Saviour. It turns out that the matriarchate must have left a very strong mark on the societies of that past, to that extent that it managed to survive within the subsequent populations, besides the new cults that were imported in the region from other cultures.

The very fact that the oldest anthropomorphic figure was also excavated in Goverlevo, points at the fact that Macedonia had been a very sprititual place, where besides the constant invasions and assimilations that took place, the local population managed to find haven in the spirituality that persevered in the Cult of St.Petka, St.Nedela, St. Paraskeva, and the strongest of all the cult of Mother Mary, or Bogorodica as we know it, the Mother of God.

Cybelle = Zemele is an ancient root word that exists only in the Slavonic languages.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Semele

Semele
daughter of Cadmus and mother of Dionysus, from L., from Gk. Semele, a Thraco-Phrygian earth goddess, from Phrygian Zemele "mother of the earth," probably cognate with O.C.S. zemlja "earth," L. humus "earth, ground, soil."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=s&p=13

Zemele - Zemle – Zemlje - Zemlja - Zemla – Zemja

The Cult of Magna Mater, the Great Mother, is probably the oldest religion of all. The earliest stone-age sculptures depict the mother- goddess, and an idol found in Catal Hьyьk, 6000 years old, depict her in the form she later became worshipped as Cybele in Phrygia, as a seated woman flanked by two leopards.
http://hem.bredband.net/arenamontanus/Mage/magna.html

As I already explained in other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratot View Post

The cult of the Great Mother

MA - mother

DON - DOM

Majcindom = Tatkovina = Motherland(home) = Fatherland




From domus (“‘house’”), from Proto-Indo-European *dṓm, from root *demh₂- (“‘to build’”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dominus

From Latin dominus, "lord", "head of household", akin to Spanish don and Italian dom; from domus, "house", + diminutive suffix -inus. Cf. dominie.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/don

In the end, the cult vanished together with most other mystery cults of the antique era as Christianity took power and Rome was plundered. However, the cult was tenacious and left many tracks. St. Peters Cathedral in the Vatican is built right on top of the old temple of Magna Mater, and some parts are presumably left under the foundations. Cybele was worshipped under the names Kubaba and Kuba in Arabia, and Khaba in Mecca was originally a shrine to her. Many early Christians identified her with Mary.


In Asia Minor itself, the cult of Cybele is marked by carved rock facades with niches or by rock-hewn thrones, on which the statue would be set; in front of these, the rites were celebrated in the open air. Cybele was a goddess of the mountains, out of which she was believed to manifest herself to her devotees. Representations of the goddess show her in her niche, sometimes flanked by lions, draped in a long garment and wearing a high polos (cylindrical crown or headdress) or with bared breasts and flanked by musicians. Her name and her association with the lion cannot be separated from the Hittite Kubaba, whose cult had spread from Carchemish to the borders of Phrygia, but the process by which this matronly figure was transformed into the Mountain Mother of the Phrygians can only be surmised.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...chor=ref559627


Goddess Ma'at in Egypt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat

Mazu Goddess in China:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu_(goddess)

*MA

For my understanding the interpreatation of Makedonia is only one logical conclussion:

Motherland

Ma - for Mother
Don - for home or land

Maika - Majke in Macedonian.

Don for Dom.

Makedonia
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:53 AM   #117
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The Magna Matter argument for the etymology of Makedonia is the most plausible, that is true.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:01 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makedonin View Post
That is a good start, I admit, it bring us closer to the initial point that Mak > Bag. The only problem with the source you posted it is that the V,B to M sound shift is found in front of N sound, vn,bn > mn and that the sound shift is from B to M, not as initially stated that M shifts to B, as HomerMakedonski stated.
It's not a problem Makedonine, it was only a suggestion by an analogy.

Bn > Mn and why not Br > Mr and the other variations of :

брбори, дрдори, мрмори, гргори, цврцори, кркори, чрчори = brbori, drdori, mrmori, grgori, cvrcori, krkori, chrchori.

The structure in forming these words is identical and what is more important is their meaning.

Probably every letter is attached to one or another specific sound sources, such as:

Toj brbori/drdori nesto glupavo.
Toj mrmori nerazbirlivo.
Vodata grgori shumno.
Vrapcite cvrcorat glasno.
Oganot krkori a mandzata chrchori

All describing the odd sound of these particular sources having produced it.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratot View Post
At this stage I can't support what Homer proposed about Maike = Baige, but for the name of Macedonia I'm personally convinced for it's origin.

Great Mother Goddess or Cybele - Magna Mater culture the greatest cult in Minor Asia and Macedonia.
It is o.k.
At the next stage hopefully ,over these two separated words connection as one whole could be, as I do


Cybele + Mother
*CyMele-Zemele +Mother =Earth Mother
As the Latin loan of Magna Mater- for it's own would state:
Mother -Materra -Ma/Terra i.e. Earth Mother at Latin

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Old 08-23-2010, 11:45 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratot View Post
Bogdan further support for my explanation with:


Bagdad:

Although there is no dispute over its Iranian origin,[3] there have been several rival proposals as to its specific etymology. The most reliable and most widely accepted among these is that the name is a Middle Persian compound of Bag "god" + dād "given", translating to "God-given" or "God's gift", whence Modern Persian Baɣdād. Another leading proposal is that the name comes from Middle Persian Bāgh-dād "The Given Garden". The name is pre-Islamic and the origins are unclear, but it is related to previous settlements, which did not have any political or commercial power, making it a virtually new foundation in the time of the Abbasids [4].
Strange mon ami
I was with an idea to analyse this Bagdad name as well .
It does support your view's


My thoughts were and are that if it's unknowing origin has meaning of "God-given" or "God's gift" then
if Bag is standing for God ,then Dad shell stand up for gift .

Why daden ,because at Sans. we have recorded meaning of:
dad
dad cl. 1. ○dati, √dā mfn. ifc. āyurdád
dada
dada mf(ā)n. (cf. Pāṇ. 3-1, 139) 'giving', abhayaṃ-
• dhanaṃ-dadā
⋙ dadana
dadana n. giving L.
≫ dadāti
dadāti m. a gift Gaut. v, 19
≫ dadi
dadí mfn. giving, bestowing (with acc.) RV. i f. iv, 24, 4 (cf. Pāṇ. 2-3, 69 Kāś.), viii ; x, 133, 3
≫ daditṛ
daditṛ́ m. a giver (preserver?) VS. vii, 14
dadadas

Dad as shorten form of Da -da dade Macedonian -Dati Serbo Croatian -to give

Da
-datta 2
dattá mfn. (√1. dā) given, granted, presented RV. i f. viii, x AV. &c

Here after d->t changes
Dad -dat -given or Dat -Serbo Croatian ,Macedonian daden

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Ref:
Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary

Version: 0.1 beta
Last updated: Thu 03/27/2003 11:41 PM
Based on the IITS - Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon
Based on R.B. Mahoney's (r.mahoney@comnet.net.nz) HTML Version 0.1a
Copyright © by University of Cologne (Universität zu Köln)
This Unicode HTML version by Prem Pahlajrai: (prem@u.washington.edu)

http://faculty.washington.edu/prem/mw/d.html

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