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Old 01-14-2009, 05:48 AM   #1
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Default The Truth about Chaeronea - Macedon vs Greece

Here is what the ancient authors wrote with regard to the Macedonian victory over the Greeks at Chaeronea, and the general attitude of Phillip and the Macedonians as opposed to the Greeks.


Quote:
He was also present at Chaeronea and took part in the battle against the Greeks.................Plutarch
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When the king asked her who she was, she replied that she was a sister of Theagenes, who drew up the forces which fought Phillip on behalf of the liberty of the Greeks, and fell in command at Chaeronea......................Plutarch
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After this he set off on a diplomatic mission, which was designed to kindle the spirit of resistance to Phillip and which took him all over Greece. Finally he succeed in uniting almost all the states into a confederation against Phillip.......................Plutarch
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Greece was now wrought up to a high pitch of expectation at the thought of her future, and her peoples and cities all drew together, Euboeans, Achaeans, Corinthians, Megarians, Leucadians and Corcyraeans……………………Plutarch
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....just then all Greece seemed to have recovered her confidence and was up in arms to support Demosthenes for the future……………….Plutarch
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However, it seems that at that very moment some divinely ordained power was shaping the course of events so as to put an end to the freedom of the Greeks..............Plutarch
****Plutarch continues to speak about the Greek hatred for the Macedonians even after the event of Chaeronea.

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While Demosthenes was still in exile, Alexander died in Babylon, and the Greek states combined yet again to form a league against Macedon............Plutarch
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Phylarchus tells us that in Arcadia Pytheas and Demosthenes actually met face to face and abused one another in the assembly, the one speaking for Macedon and the other for Greece.............Plutarch
****One for Macedon, another for Greece.

Here is what another ancient author says about the results after the event:

Quote:
You were general, Lysicles. A thousand citizens have perished and two thousand were taken captive. A trophy stands over your city's defeat, and all of Greece is enslaved. All of this happened under your leadership and command, and yet you dare to live and to look on the sun and even to intrude into the market, a living monument of our country's shame and disgrace..................Diodorus
And another:

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For the disaster at Chaeronea was the beginning of misfortune for all the Greeks...............Pausanias
****In contrast, the victory at Chaeronea was the beginning of glory for all the Macedonians.

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As they were retreating to the Peloponnesus the Romans under Metellus fell upon them near Chaeroneia. It was then that the vengeance of the Greek gods overtook the Arcadians, who were slain by the Romans on the very spot on which they had deserted from the Greeks who were struggling at Chaeronea against the Macedonians under Phillip............Pausanias
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Though they did not fight on the Greek side against Phillip and the Macedonians at Chaeronea, nor later in Thessaly against Antipater, yet they did not actually range themselves against the Greeks.............Pausanias
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I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks................Pausanias
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The Thebans assert that Linus was buried among them, and that after the Greek defeat at Chaeronea, Philip the son of Amyntas, in obedience to a vision in a dream, took up the bones of Linus and conveyed them to Macedonia...............Pausanias
And to conclude with one more ancient source:

Quote:
When Phillip had once come into Greece, allured by the plunder of a few cities, and had formed an opinion, from the spoil of such towns as were of less note, how great must be the riches of all its cities put together, he resolved to make war upon the whole of Greece...............Justinus
Quote:
It was a shameful and miserable sight, to behold Greece, even then the most distinguished country in the world for power and dignity, a country, that had constantly been the conqueror of kings and nations, and was still mistress of many cities, waiting at a foreign court to ask or deprecate war; that the champions of the world should place all their hopes on assistance from another.............Justinus
****That foreign court is the Macedonian court. The Greek forces were led by Athenians, but as the above sources have shown, they consisted of several other Greeks. It was a Macedonian-Greek war.

Quote:
A battle being brought on, though the Athenians were far superior in number of soldiers, they were conquered by the valour of the Macedonians, which was invigorated by constant service in the field. They were not, however, in defeat, unmindful of their ancient valour; for, falling with wounds in front, they all covered the places which they had been charged by their leaders to defend, with their dead bodies. This day put an end to the glorious sovereignty and ancient liberty of all Greece.................Justinus

And that day marked the start of the glorious Macedonian Empire.

Long live Macedonia and the Macedonian people.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:21 AM   #2
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clear as day. those Hellens of the time could never see the Macedonians as their unificators, but enslavers.

Only the biased western historians can find unification in this clear cut issue.

good collection SoM
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:34 AM   #3
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sry but those translations are all falsifications.

in the orginal versions 100% nowhere stand GREEK or GREECE

@som
with those quotations u put somebody into thinking that the invaders who came 900-700bc, are related with the modern greeks.

thats false
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:50 AM   #4
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Абре Димко шо рипате и вие така, заради таква безвеза тука ќе пишиш дека цело шо кажвам е лага? During the ancient period, some writers wrote Hellenes, later writers during the Roman period likely wrote Greeks also, particularly Latin writers like Rufus and Justinus.

The quotations are about Chaeronea, од каде до каде и ти, this thread has nothing to do with modern people connected to 900bc.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:57 AM   #5
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само сакав да го спомнам срце

не да мислат дека признавме некоја лага, чувај боже
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:16 AM   #6
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Каква лага бре? Не да кажиш нешто добро, ми спомнуваш нешто шо нема врска со темата.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:42 AM   #7
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I see most quotes from are from Plutarch.

Is it from "Parallel Lives" in which he compares the Life of a GREEK with a Life of a ROMAN...?

# Parallel Lives, II: Themistocles and Camillus. Aristides and Cato Major. Cimon and Lucullus
# Parallel Lives, III: Pericles and Fabius Maximus. Nicias and Crassus
# Parallel Lives, IV: Alcibiades and Coriolanus. Lysander and Sulla
# Parallel Lives, V: Agesilaus and Pompey. Pelopidas and Marcellus
# Parallel Lives, VI: Dion and Brutus. Timoleon and Aemilius Paulus
# Parallel Lives, VII: Demosthenes and Cicero. Alexander and Caesar
# Parallel Lives, VIII: Sertorius and Eumenes. Phocion and Cato the Younger
# Parallel Lives, IX: Demetrius and Antony. Pyrrhus and Gaius Marius
# Parallel Lives, X: Agis and Cleomenes. Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus. Philopoemen and Flamininus
# Parallel Lives, XI: Aratus. Artaxerxes. Galba. Otho. General

...Also the Life of Philip..listed in the Greeks of course..was written by Plutarch but not saved.

To the point ...Of course Charonea is very significant,
but NOT as a crucial point in "Race struggle" or "National struggle"..but in Political life of ancient Greece,and the ancient world in general.

It marked the end of Polis-the city state which the main type of organization of the social and political life in ancient Greece.(except some regions-Epirus,Aetolia,Macedon,Acarnania etc)


But even if it was an important incident in a "Racial / national struggle" -which is wrong- this doesn't connect YOU,modern day,slavic speaking Macedonians with these events.
Not at all.

Last edited by TerraNova; 01-14-2009 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
slavic speaking Macedonians
Is the language the only definer of your species ?

All you have to bable is a slavic language, slavic language.

For all it can be said, you are "Greek Speaking" Slav, but than you will consider your self glued to this events, right ?

And for the Politics Card, you can spare you the effort. Those Barbarians kicked the ass of those high headed Hellenes and sold thier wifes and children as slaves. On the end of the day, those Hellenes had to suck up everything what those hated Barbarians told them to do. They got Garrisoned and got kept close eye on every move of thiers, a certain sighn of servitude.

And it was Servitude, and thats why centuries later, those high headed Hellenes supported the Romans fighting against the Macedonians, and the Macedonians responded to the Romans as:

Quote:
But what is most insufferable of all is that they assume they are the equals of the Romans in demanding that the Macedonians should withdraw from the whole of Greece. 6 To employ such language at all is indeed a sign of haughtiness, but while we may put up with it from the lips of the Romans we cannot when the speakers are Aetolians. 7 And what," he said, "is that Greece from which you order me to withdraw, and how do you define Greece? 8 For most of the Aetolians themselves are not Greeks. No! the countries of the Agraae, the Apodotae, and the Amphilochians are not Greece. 9 Do you give me permission to remain in those countries?"

(Book XVIII. 5) Philip V from Macedon
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makedonin View Post
Is the language the only definer of your species ?
I think you must decide...do you consider language as a definer or NOT??
Remember that you don't consider Slavic speaking people as Greeks (your "Grecomani")or Vlachs ...

Now you come asking.."is language the only definer"..?

Ok..let's decide it isn;t...what else?
Do you have any cultural connection with ancient Macedonians?!
You don't even inhabit their lands...

This ancient link theories of the Balkan people are funny...and if the Greek theory is weak-which i believe it is-at least they inhabit the same land and speak the same language...
that's all.
But you..don't have anything ,not even these.

Quote:
And for the Politics Card, you can spare you the effort. Those Barbarians kicked the ass of those high headed Hellenes and sold thier wifes and children as slaves. On the end of the day, those Hellenes had to suck up everything what those hated Barbarians told them to do. They got Garrisoned and got kept close eye on every move of thiers, a certain sighn of servitude.

And it was Servitude, and thats why centuries later, those high headed Hellenes supported the Romans fighting against the Macedonians, and the Macedonians responded to the Romans as:
It's obvious you ve never studied history ,without your national glasses-i dont judge you about this,history is not so popular among people..

At least i think you should recognize that even the quote u posted ,confirms what i say.
The king of Macedon,does not include some Aetolians in Greeks,not because of "race" ,but because Aetolians in this era where like the Macedonians until Philip-organized in a more primitive way (as other Greeks were in Homer's era) ,in "ethni" ,not in "polis".
So they can be considered as "Barbarians".
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
I think you must decide...do you consider language as a definer or NOT??
Remember that you don't consider Slavic speaking people as Greeks (your "Grecomani")or Vlachs ...

Now you come asking.."is language the only definer"..?

Ok..let's decide it isn;t...what else?
Do you have any cultural connection with ancient Macedonians?!
You don't even inhabit their lands...

Ha Ha, not inhabiting the Macednian land. I have seen you pulling this one out of your *** before.

How do you know what language those Macedonians had? Their language is still mistery for the Science, but you know it better

How close do you know my Culture? Is your Culture close to Hellenic one. Do you still dance nacked at Delphy Festivals or you still run around under drugs and bow to Zeus ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
This ancient link theories of the Balkan people are funny...and if the Greek theory is weak-which i believe it is-at least they inhabit the same land and speak the same language...
that's all.
But you..don't have anything ,not even these.
And yet you support the insane approach of your Government, and brag when it suits you how Ancient Hellenic your string in Macedonia is.

The language you spoke, you could not even decide which dialect you should adopt before few decades, now you bable here how Great your language connections are


Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
It's obvious you ve never studied history ,without your national glasses-i dont judge you about this,history is not so popular among people..
You certainly did, I can tell streight foward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraNova View Post
At least i think you should recognize that even the quote u posted ,confirms what i say.
The king of Macedon,does not include some Aetolians in Greeks,not because of "race" ,but because Aetolians in this era where like the Macedonians until Philip-organized in a more primitive way (as other Greeks were in Homer's era) ,in "ethni" ,not in "polis".
So they can be considered as "Barbarians".
you can try to go around this in every way you like, but you will always avoid to see that those Aeolians Philip V refers might in deed haven't been Greeks in Ehnical sense or by Gens.

The reason is simple, the High Headed Hellens were Slave drivers of the times and owned more Slaves than their own numbers!


How does that fits in your head?
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