Huge uproar in Greece over a tv documentary called 1821 (Greek independance)

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  • Voltron
    Banned
    • Jan 2011
    • 1362

    #16
    Did you ever think why they hated from each other? First of all, so called Arvanites are just christian Albanians and so called TurkAlbanians are muslim Albanians. Christian ones butchered their muslim kinsmen in Morea cuz western European philhellenes poisoned their weak minds. This was a necessity to create a country called Greece in Morea. Otherwise the christian and muslim Albanians gets along very well in Albania for a century.
    Arvanites were in Greece for over 400 years. I dont think they have anything in common with the ones in Albania. As far as the killings are concerned, it happens all over the world in civil unrest. Brother will kill Brother, but even so its nothing in comparison to how many Greeks and Armenians murdered in Turkey. Who poisoned your minds ?

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    • Droog
      Member
      • Mar 2011
      • 120

      #17
      Originally posted by Voltron View Post
      They were mortal enemies. Arvanites completely detested the TurkAlbanians. So much so, that they self identify as Greeks. And if you were to imply otherwise you would have another thing coming.
      Really? Only during the Junta period the public opinion of Arvanites for Albanians became negative.

      Before the independence of Albania there are too many details so just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Kullurioti as an example

      I'll focus on interwar relations. For example the Arvanitic Union of Greece in the interwar period celebrated every year the independence day of Albania. The Arvanitic Union(which had to change its name to Greek-Albanian Association eventually) was composed of both Muslim and Christian Albanians of Greece. You can read the related documents here. For those who can't read Greek the document lists the actions of the organization, which include the celebration of independence of Albania during which Admiral Votsis(highest rank of the Greek navy), a member of the group sent congratulations to King Zog of Albania.

      Even half-Albanian leaders of Greece during the Interwar period supported Albania. Pangalos considered himself a friend of Albania, spoke Albanian, and was proud of his half-Albanian origin In fact Pangalos is the only leader of Greece who has ceded part of its territories to Albania(in 1925-6 he ceded 14-20 villages of Greece to Albania) and after doing that he even repeled the agrarian "reform" laws and gave back to Muslim Albanians their land property that had been given to the refugees.

      Historical anachronism as an attempt to present an "eternal hatred" between two groups is a common element of nationalism.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #18
        Interesting information, thanks Droog, and welcome to the forum. What is your background and heritage, if you don't mind me asking?
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          #19
          Originally posted by Droog View Post
          Historical anachronism as an attempt to present an "eternal hatred" between two groups is a common element of nationalism.
          Fact of the matter remains that Arvanites of Greece do not identify themselves as Albanians today. Historically speaking the Arvanties sided with the Greeks against the TurkAlbanians which were henchmen for the Ottomans.

          That does not however contradict anything you said. Its just historical fact.

          I think the key to your post was when you said after the Independence of Albania. Maybe the Arvanites wanted reapproachment when their land was liberated, just an idea.
          Last edited by Voltron; 03-31-2011, 07:02 AM.

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          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            #20
            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
            Fact of the matter remains that Arvanites of Greece do not identify themselves as Albanians today. Historically speaking the Arvanties sided with the Greeks against the TurkAlbanians which were henchmen for the Ottomans.

            That does not however contradict anything you said. Its just historical fact.

            I think the key to your post was when you said after the Independence of Albania. Maybe the Arvanites wanted reapproachment when their land was liberated, just an idea.
            What do you mean with 'when their land was liberated'? The Arvanites native land has been the Morea since at least the 14th century.
            Please explaine.
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

            Comment

            • The LION will ROAR
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3231

              #21
              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
              Fact of the matter remains that Arvanites of Greece do not identify themselves as Albanians today. Historically speaking the Arvanties sided with the Greeks against the TurkAlbanians which were henchmen for the Ottomans.

              That does not however contradict anything you said. Its just historical fact.

              I think the key to your post was when you said after the Independence of Albania. Maybe the Arvanites wanted reapproachment when their land was liberated, just an idea.
              Voltron, It's funny how you Greeks always have an opinion or some wild Greek theory which never corresponds to real Facts...
              Have a read...you might learn something..

              The Arvanites considered themselves to be Skipetars(Albanians) in 1814!
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1748

              Anti-Arvanitika campaignshttp://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2145
              The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

              Comment

              • Voltron
                Banned
                • Jan 2011
                • 1362

                #22
                [QUOTE]
                Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                What do you mean with 'when their land was liberated'? The Arvanites native land has been the Morea since at least the 14th century.
                Correct Daskalot

                Please explaine.
                I meant when Albania gained Independence in 1912. I suggested that at that time there was a feeling of solidarity for their counterparts in Albania.

                Comment

                • Voltron
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1362

                  #23
                  Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
                  Voltron, It's funny how you Greeks always have an opinion or some wild Greek theory which never corresponds to real Facts...
                  Have a read...you might learn something..

                  The Arvanites considered themselves to be Skipetars(Albanians) in 1814!
                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1748

                  Anti-Arvanitika campaignshttp://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2145
                  TLWR,

                  I cannot be in the mind of every Arvanite that is in Greece. But from my experiences and from my years being here there is simply nothing to suggest that they identify themselves as Albanians. What do you want me to do ? Conduct an official consensus ?

                  Comment

                  • The LION will ROAR
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3231

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                    TLWR,

                    I cannot be in the mind of every Arvanite that is in Greece. But from my experiences and from my years being here there is simply nothing to suggest that they identify themselves as Albanians. What do you want me to do ? Conduct an official consensus ?
                    God forbid an Arvanite in today's Greece acknowledges that he is not Greek...let alone the rest of the minorities in Greece
                    No need for a census Voltron…you are all 98% pure Greeks
                    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                    Comment

                    • Voltron
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 1362

                      #25
                      [QUOTE]
                      Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
                      God forbid an Arvanite in today's Greece acknowledges that he is not Greek...let alone the rest of the minorities in Greece
                      Take it up with them.

                      No need for a census Voltron…you are all 98% pure Greeks
                      Nobody advocates pureness TLWR. Maybe some small circles you will find in the internet. To be quite honest, I dont think we care about those issues. It is what it is.

                      Comment

                      • The LION will ROAR
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3231

                        #26
                        [QUOTE=Voltron;94618]

                        Take it up with them.



                        Nobody advocates pureness TLWR. Maybe some small circles you will find in the internet. To be quite honest, I dont think we care about those issues. It is what it is.
                        Bull-crap.....Majority of your warped Circle think you are all related to the Ancient Greeks..
                        Majority of you Greeks think that everything comes from Greece..
                        Majority of Greeks think that everyone should thank them for giving them democracy and civilisation...
                        And Majority of Greeks think they are experts on our identity....
                        yet you don't know your own...
                        The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                        Comment

                        • Droog
                          Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 120

                          #27
                          Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
                          God forbid an Arvanite in today's Greece acknowledges that he is not Greek...let alone the rest of the minorities in Greece
                          No need for a census Voltron…you are all 98% pure Greeks
                          Actually that's 100% since the "muslim minority of western thrace" is "just" a religious minority that happens to speak non-Greek languages

                          @Voltron the Arvanitic Union existed for 25 years before Albania's independece declaration.
                          Last edited by Droog; 03-31-2011, 08:58 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Voltron
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1362

                            #28
                            Originally posted by The LION will ROAR View Post
                            Bull-crap.....Majority of your warped Circle think you are all related to the Ancient Greeks..
                            Majority of you Greeks think that everything comes from Greece..
                            Majority of Greeks think that everyone should thank them for giving them democracy and civilisation...
                            And Majority of Greeks think they are experts on our identity....
                            yet you don't know your own...
                            We are related, you would have to prove that the Greeks as we know them were exterminated as a whole. So in this case I do belong to the majority.

                            Not everything comes from Greece, but we are proud of our past.
                            As far as your identity is concerned, I dont have a problem with it and the isssue is purely political in nature.

                            Comment

                            • Voltron
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1362

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Droog View Post
                              Actually that's 100% since the "muslim minority of western thrace" is "just" a religious minority that happens to speak non-Greek languages

                              @Voltron the Arvanitic Union existed for 25 years before Albania's indepence declaration.
                              What do Pomaks and Turks have to do with Greeks today ? You know many of them by any chance cause I dont.

                              Ok, so a union existed 25 yrs before independence of Albania. That puts it at 1887. How many were the members by the way ? I still dont see how that impacts the general feelings of Arvanites as a whole. Care to direct me where I may find them today ? Any internet forums where they congregate today ?

                              Comment

                              • Droog
                                Member
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 120

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                                What do Pomaks and Turks have to do with Greeks today ? You know many of them by any chance cause I dont.

                                Ok, so a union existed 25 yrs before independence of Albania. That puts it at 1887. How many were the members by the way ? I still dont see how that impacts the general feelings of Arvanites as a whole. Care to direct me where I may find them today ? Any internet forums where they congregate today ?
                                It was refounded again in 1983 http://www.arvasynel.gr/actions.html

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