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Old 01-13-2019, 05:58 PM   #2091
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Originally Posted by maco2envy View Post
Is it true that international treaties must be approved by the UN?
No not in every case.

The way it was explained to me by Vicsinad is that because the conflict with Greece was originally initiated at the UN, and the current iterations and negotiations mediated by the UN, that is why this agreement requires UN approval. Because this resolution was conducted under the auspices of the UN.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:14 PM   #2092
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No not in every case.

The way it was explained to me by Vicsinad is that because the conflict with Greece was originally initiated at the UN, and the current iterations and negotiations mediated by the UN, that is why this agreement requires UN approval. Because this resolution was conducted under the auspices of the UN.
Yes, and this is essentially what Russia alluded to several months ago, hinting that it has to come the the UN Security Council and that they would veto it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:25 PM   #2093
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Yes, and this is essentially what Russia alluded to several months ago, hinting that it has to come the the UN Security Council and that they would veto it.
Also Vic correct me if I am wrong:

UN approval and Greek ratification have no bearing on what are the internal matters of Macedonia, changing of the constitution, and such? Does the Prespa agreement have any provisions stipulating on what would happen in the even of UN or Greek rejection?

The internal changes that Macedonia made are unaffected by the UN or Greece correct?
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:00 PM   #2094
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Also Vic correct me if I am wrong:

UN approval and Greek ratification have no bearing on what are the internal matters of Macedonia, changing of the constitution, and such? Does the Prespa agreement have any provisions stipulating on what would happen in the even of UN or Greek rejection?

The internal changes that Macedonia made are unaffected by the UN or Greece correct?
I think that's true. The problem with a Russian veto at the UN is that it wouldn't mean anything. Macedonia could have made these constitutional changes on its own and Greece could not veto Macedonia's entrance into NATO or the EU without any agreement. So, perhaps an argument that the agreement itself can be vetoed can be made from the technical aspect, but it would have no practical affect aside from causing some international geopolitical pomp and stance.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:00 PM   #2095
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I can also see China potentially blocking the agreement at the UN.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:19 PM   #2096
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....just 80 people, sell out Macedonia, without a complaint, a protest......
Not that it makes (or made) much difference but Filip Petrovski and some others did protest in Skopje a number of times in the past several months.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:35 PM   #2097
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Not that it makes (or made) much difference but Filip Petrovski and some others did protest in Skopje a number of times in the past several months.
Yea him and his 5 cousins and 1 neighbor turned Skopje upside down.

In all seriousness though I am still in utter disbelief that almost no one protested. I think back over the years, we have had several very large protests for much much less. This is probably the point that sticks out the most to me over this entire debacle.

Based on the referendum results you have to assume a significant number of people were opposed to this, where were they all this time, where are they now???
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:54 PM   #2098
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Based on the referendum results you have to assume a significant number of people were opposed to this, where were they all this time, where are they now???
Based on the referendum results AND the fact that nothing has happened since, you must assume they are either not particularly concerned OR are totally in favour of this.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:01 PM   #2099
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I have no idea why anyone is worried about whether the UN is able to sign off on this. This is kind of like how the use of "Constutional Name" was used instead of "Voldemort" (or Macedonia) previously. Who cares what happens when Macedonia clearly does not ‽ (Yes, I used an interrobang)

Macedonia doggedly insisted on calling itself FYROM for 25 odd years and all it did was preempt everyone else's right to question Macedonia's identity. Legal mumbo jumbo that appeals to the most intelligent of peasants in Macedonia. It could have all been much simpler.

Macedonians love a good technicality.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:07 PM   #2100
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So it appears the Greeks need 5 more votes (out of 300) from the opposition party to get NMKD over the line. Anyone feeling confident about the integrity of Greeks at this point?
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