Aegean Macedonia and Greater Macedonia

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  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    Aegean Macedonia and Greater Macedonia

    I am curious what is your position on Aegean Macedonia?
  • Liberator of Makedonija
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1595

    #2
    This is a pretty pointless question. The position of a Macedonian on Macedonia is obvious.
    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

    Comment

    • Dejan
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 589

      #3
      There's only one Macedonia. Unfortunately it is a divided Macedonia
      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

      Comment

      • tchaiku
        Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 786

        #4
        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
        This is a pretty pointless question. The position of a Macedonian on Macedonia is obvious.
        You are willing to attack Greece? Territorial change is not like giving a gum. Greece is not willing to give territory to anyone and let alone Macedonia.
        Last edited by tchaiku; 06-19-2017, 12:11 PM.

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        • Karposh
          Member
          • Aug 2015
          • 863

          #5
          The title of your thread is misleading Tchaiku. There’s no such thing as a “Greater Macedonia”, just Macedonia. Aegean Macedonia, just like Pirin Macedonia, Mala Prespa, Golo Brdo, Gora, Prohor Pchinski and the Republic of Macedonia are not a part of some “Greater Macedonia”. They are Macedonia.

          A Greater Macedonia would extend from the Danube in the north, to Volos in the south, and from the Black Sea in the east, to the Adriatic in west.

          I get what you’re trying to do but please don’t mistake the Macedonian narrative for the Albanian one. They are as different as chalk and cheese my friend…Chalk and cheese.

          By the way, I don’t think anyone here has ever suggested attacking Greece. How did you get to that conclusion from what has been said here? Also, I’m pretty sure everyone is well aware that territorial changes are not as simple as exchanging chewing gum but thanks for the analogy all the same. Serbia was not willing to give away her territory to anyone either let alone the Albanians. I guess you Albanians must have had some really tasty gum for them to give away some of their territory to you.

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            #6
            Originally posted by Karposh View Post
            I get what you’re trying to do but please don’t mistake the Macedonian narrative for the Albanian one. They are as different as chalk and cheese my friend…Chalk and cheese.
            I agree that they are different to certain degree. But that is meaningless, the threat is almost the same, or even bigger on the Macedonian side [to Greeks].

            By the way, I don’t think anyone here has ever suggested attacking Greece. How did you get to that conclusion from what has been said here?
            Claiming a territory controlled by a nation who wont even accept the name of the same cause automatically means war.

            Serbia was not willing to give away her territory to anyone either let alone the Albanians. I guess you Albanians must have had some really tasty gum for them to give away some of their territory to you.
            Serbs killed tens of thousands civilians during Yugoslavia wars, more than anybody else, to keep it that way. That speaks something.

            Comment

            • Karposh
              Member
              • Aug 2015
              • 863

              #7
              Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
              Claiming a territory controlled by a nation who wont even accept the name of the same cause automatically means war.
              Again, no one is claiming Greek territory. What we’re discussing here is semantics – “Greater Macedonia V “Macedonia”. Is Aegean Macedonia a part of a Greater Macedonia? No it is not. Is it is a part of Macedonia? Yes it is. By default, it is a part of Macedonia because it lies within the “generally accepted”, natural and historical boundaries of Macedonia. Is it a part of Greece? Obviously it is today and nobody is claiming it for the RoM.

              You have to understand that you’re divided map of Macedonia in your first post is not a map of a “Greater Macedonia” but simply Macedonia. The fact that there are artificial divisions that have turned this cursed piece of land into a jig-saw puzzle doesn’t change that fact.

              Now, just because one of the pieces of that Macedonian jig-saw puzzle dares to call itself the “Republic of Macedonia” doesn’t necessarily mean it has aspirations to any of the other pieces.

              Comment

              • DraganOfStip
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2011
                • 1253

                #8
                Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                .Claiming a territory controlled by a nation who wont even accept the name of the same cause automatically means war.
                WTF did I just read? Attacking another country without a proclamation of war is what automatically means war. You got something wrong in your equation.

                Serbs killed tens of thousands civilians during Yugoslavia wars, more than anybody else, to keep it that way.
                ALL sides killed tens of thousands of civilians in the Yugoslav wars. It's just that Serbs are the ones stigmatized by the west through their media and movies because at the time the west supported the dissolution of Yugoslavia (and subsequently supported the independence of the republics and sympathized/helped Slovenes/Croats/Bosniaks/Kosovars in their war against JNA) and Serbs were against it.
                The western propaganda machinery has marked the Serbs as the bad guys in those wars and made sure their atrocities are more known than the ones committed by the other sides.
                And boy, did nasty s**t happen...
                ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                ― George Orwell

                Comment

                • tchaiku
                  Member
                  • Nov 2016
                  • 786

                  #9
                  ALL sides killed tens of thousands of civilians in the Yugoslav wars.
                  Not all, just Serbs. I am not showing the censuses but I can easily prove it. There were crimes committed by all sides. But the number was much higher on the Serbian side. I am not discrediting the victims, who knows maybe I will on the same position. (Hopefully not) But still ...

                  Anyways lets not get out of topic.
                  Last edited by tchaiku; 04-10-2017, 02:39 AM.

                  Comment

                  • DraganOfStip
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 1253

                    #10
                    Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                    Not all, just Serbs.
                    Not true.

                    I am not showing the censuses but I can easily prove it.
                    I don't doubt that you can. The international community as I have already explained has placed all the blame for the Yugoslav wars on the Serbs and that is why the world today knows the war crimes perpetrated by Serbs but very little of the war crimes perpetrated by the other sides.The bias is there.
                    Just like Ljube Boskovski was tried for the Ljuboten case, but those responsible for kidnapping and murdering civilians, carving letters on the backs of random workers that were just returning from work, the savage massacre of Vejce, the humanitarian disaster of Kumanovo due to the capture of the dam etc were all dismissed.
                    So according to the international community, Macedonian security forces were the only ones that committed war crimes.
                    See what I'm getting at?

                    But the number was much higher on the Serbian side.
                    Given your history and sentiments towards Serbs I can understand why you're saying this.

                    Anyways lets not get out of topic.
                    What topic? This thread has no purpose of being here, any Macedonian's stance on Aegean Macedonia is the same and can be seen throughout this forum. Don't be lazy, just scroll down different threads and you'll find the answer.
                    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                    ― George Orwell

                    Comment

                    • tchaiku
                      Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 786

                      #11
                      If you insists
                      A wide-ranging list of more than 13,000 people of all nationalities who died or disappeared during the Kosovo conflict was published online to mark Human Rights Day.

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        #12
                        Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                        I don't doubt that you can.
                        If you insist:
                        A wide-ranging list of more than 13,000 people of all nationalities who died or disappeared during the Kosovo conflict was published online to mark Human Rights Day.

                        Over 30,000 Bosniaks and 4,000 Serbs killed or missing:



                        The international community as I have already explained has placed all the blame for the Yugoslav wars on the Serbs and that is why the world today knows the war crimes perpetrated by Serbs but very little of the war crimes perpetrated by the other sides.The bias is there.
                        Serbs have milked the burning of their churches in 2004 very well, that half of the world heard about it and much more. If anything Serbs have a long forgotten bloody history, akin to Croatia Nazi (Ustaše) past. But we don't know as much about them as we do about Croats.

                        Comment

                        • DraganOfStip
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 1253

                          #13
                          Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                          If you insist:
                          A wide-ranging list of more than 13,000 people of all nationalities who died or disappeared during the Kosovo conflict was published online to mark Human Rights Day.

                          Over 30,000 Bosniaks and 4,000 Serbs killed or missing:





                          Serbs have milked the burning of their churches in 2004 very well, that half of the world heard about it and much more. If anything Serbs have a long forgotten bloody history, akin to Croatia Nazi (Ustaše) past. But we don't know as much about them as we do about Croats.
                          Like I said, your people have a great deal of resentment towards Serbs for known reasons and therefore I can understand your narrative.
                          But this is only your bias speaking.
                          Whether you want to admit it or not, many civilians were killed by all sides in the Yugoslav wars. Putting the blame on just one side is unrealistic to say the least.
                          ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                          ― George Orwell

                          Comment

                          • Stojacanec
                            Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 809

                            #14
                            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                            I am curious what is your position on Aegean Macedonia?
                            My position is around 2 km's north of Aegean Macedonia.

                            Comment

                            • Philosopher
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1003

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                              The title of your thread is misleading Tchaiku. There’s no such thing as a “Greater Macedonia”, just Macedonia. Aegean Macedonia, just like Pirin Macedonia, Mala Prespa, Golo Brdo, Gora, Prohor Pchinski and the Republic of Macedonia are not a part of some “Greater Macedonia”. They are Macedonia.

                              A Greater Macedonia would extend from the Danube in the north, to Volos in the south, and from the Black Sea in the east, to the Adriatic in west.

                              I get what you’re trying to do but please don’t mistake the Macedonian narrative for the Albanian one. They are as different as chalk and cheese my friend…Chalk and cheese.

                              By the way, I don’t think anyone here has ever suggested attacking Greece. How did you get to that conclusion from what has been said here? Also, I’m pretty sure everyone is well aware that territorial changes are not as simple as exchanging chewing gum but thanks for the analogy all the same. Serbia was not willing to give away her territory to anyone either let alone the Albanians. I guess you Albanians must have had some really tasty gum for them to give away some of their territory to you.
                              Good points.

                              Comment

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