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Old 03-17-2013, 03:01 AM   #1
Pelagon
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Default "Latinos" growing in numbers in California (and USA)

How do we compare growing numbers of Ghegs in Macedonia to that of "Latinos' in California and USA? Are "Latinos" getting (or aspiring for) the same privileges ("rights") that the Ghegs/Shiptars already have (or even had before 2001) or are aiming to get in the future?
Quote:

California Eases Tone as Latinos Make Gains
Monica Almeida/The New York Times

Students after school in Glen Avon, east of Los Angeles. Latinos now make up more than two-thirds of many cities in that region.
By JENNIFER MEDINA
Published: February 16, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/us...ake-gains.html
An excerpt from the NYT article that highlights the main points of interest:
Quote:
"..,The state’s changing attitudes are driven, in large part, by demographics. In 1990, Latinos made up 30 percent of the state’s population; they will make up 40 percent — more than any other ethnic group — by the end of this year, and 48 percent by 2050, according to projections made by the state this month. This year, for the first time, Latinos were the largest ethnic group applying to the University of California system.

Towns that just a decade ago were largely white now have Latino majorities. Latinos make up an important power base not only in urban centers like Los Angeles, but also in places that were once hostile to outsiders. There are dozens of city councils with a majority of Latino members, a Mexican-American is the mayor of Los Angeles and another is the leader of the State Assembly. Nearly all of the 15 California Republicans in Congress represent districts where at least a quarter of the residents are Latino.

“The political calculus has changed dramatically,” said Manuel Pastor, a demographer and professor of American studies at the University of Southern California. “Immigrants are an accepted part of public life here. And California is America fast-forward. What happened to our demographics between 1980 and 2000 is almost exactly what will happen to the rest of the country over the next 30 years.”

Last edited by Pelagon; 03-17-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #2
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I have always used the example of latinos in America to show how unbalanced and unfair the imposed FA is. The latinos on a national level are a similar percetage to that of albanians in RM, a little less but in certain states they are a sizable minority in many municapalities they make up almost 100%. The USA does not afford even a fraction of the rights the FA does. If the latinos did push for anything similar to our FA I think the reaction from the white population would be quite harsh and swift. It would never happen basically. So I guess its do as I say not as I do.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:23 PM   #3
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it would never happen in the us.In macedonia you havr got different scenarios.If any ppulation tried to do what the albanians are doing in macedonia.They will be put away.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
I have always used the example of latinos in America to show how unbalanced and unfair the imposed FA is. The latinos on a national level are a similar percetage to that of albanians in RM, a little less but in certain states they are a sizable minority in many municapalities they make up almost 100%. The USA does not afford even a fraction of the rights the FA does. If the latinos did push for anything similar to our FA I think the reaction from the white population would be quite harsh and swift. It would never happen basically. So I guess its do as I say not as I do.
Are you trying to say the US has the better system in place or Macedonia does?
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #5
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He made it very clear when he said the FA is unbalanced and unfair.
I use the same argument myself. Particularly because the USA pretty much brokered this treason.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
He made it very clear when he said the FA is unbalanced and unfair.
I use the same argument myself. Particularly because the USA pretty much brokered this treason.
He also said the US doesn't afford them a fraction of the rights that the FA does implying that the FA actually deals with "rights". The US respects the 'Latinos' inalienable rights, as it does all its citizens. The difference is that the FA has nothing to do with rights, its about special priveleges and that is something the US does not provide.

Seeing as he's made negative comments in relation to both I don't think is not unreasonable to ask which he thinks is a better system.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagon View Post
How do we compare growing numbers of Ghegs in Macedonia to that of "Latinos' in California and USA? Are "Latinos" getting (or aspiring for) the same rights that the Ghegs/Shiptars already have (or even had before 2001) or are aiming to get in the future?


An excerpt from the NYT article that highlights the main points of interest:
I don't think Latino's, or any other group, will be seeking any special privileges (as opposed to actual rights) in the US any time soon. While there are degrees of violations in all countries, their inalienable and civil rights are respected. Further, many of them having come from the chaos that is Mexico and Latin America more broadly, I think they appreciate what they actually have in the US and aren't keen on reinventing their 'home' countries there. Also, I think the US (and other places like Canada and Australia) have their models of integration running like a well oiled machine.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
He also said the US doesn't afford them a fraction of the rights that the FA does implying that the FA actually deals with "rights". The US respects the 'Latinos' inalienable rights, as it does all its citizens. The difference is that the FA has nothing to do with rights, its about special priveleges and that is something the US does not provide.

Seeing as he's made negative comments in relation to both I don't think is not unreasonable to ask which he thinks is a better system.
I will take the blame for using incorrect terminology here as I originally (in a rather ideologically sloppy way) took the lead and used the term rights without any qualification and Gocka probably just followed that lead. I apologise for not being sharper in the first place in using correct terminology and, IMHO, there is no need for further agitation on this point.

Quote:
"Latinos" growing in numbers in California (and USA)
How do we compare growing numbers of Ghegs in Macedonia to that of "Latinos' in California and USA? Are "Latinos" getting (or aspiring for) the same privileges ("rights") that the Ghegs/Shiptars already have (or even had before 2001) or are aiming to get in the future?
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I don't think Latino's, or any other group, will be seeking any special privileges (as opposed to actual rights) in the US any time soon. While there are degrees of violations in all countries, their inalienable and civil rights are respected. Further, many of them having come from the chaos that is Mexico and Latin America more broadly, I think they appreciate what they actually have in the US and aren't keen on reinventing their 'home' countries there. Also, I think the US (and other places like Canada and Australia) have their models of integration running like a well oiled machine.
I am also wondering why "Latinos" are (or should be) ranged against "Whites" (whatever that means) in this "demographic war" as many Catholics (Americans of Irish, Italian, Polish...decent), amongst others, might feel closer cultural affinity to them than to the Protestant or Anglo-American ruling elites. As a Macedonian, I personally would feel more affinity to "Latinos", Indigenous-Americans, African-Americans and a number of other X-Americans than to the "White-Americans" .
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagon View Post
I am also wondering why "Latinos" are (or should be) ranged against "Whites" (whatever that means) in this "demographic war" as many Catholics (Americans of Irish, Italian, Polish...decent), amongst others, might feel closer cultural affinity to them than to the Protestant or Anglo-American ruling elites. As a Macedonian, I personally would feel more affinity to "Latinos", Indigenous-Americans, African-Americans and a number of other X-Americans than to the "White-Americans" .
I don't think the American "ruling elite" is soley Anglo-American. In fact, I don't think that Anglo-Americans are even a majority of the "ruling elite" whether by its broadest or narrowist definitions.

You personally may feel a closer affinity to non-Anglo Americans, but that does not necessarily mean that all Macedonians or all Latino's would. I think that would be a very individual thing.
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The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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