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Old 12-12-2017, 05:43 AM   #131
Starling
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What about the massive protests that got next to no news coverage? There would still be outrage. Also organizing more protests in the diaspora would help raise awareness on this. We need to do our part too and it'd be nice if I could at least get people's thoughts on suggestions I've made on ways to do it aside from protests, as well as more talk about organizing protests and such.

I generally got the impression that Persia was en exonym and that Persian texts had some variant of the name Iran in them.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:45 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
will the concept of some form of real division at that point become to be seen as a reasonable reaction amongst the diaspora?, does anyone think this could be a possible realistic reaction/outcome if such an event (name change) took place?.
If the argument can be made, and accepted, that this division would be necessary in order for Macedonians to retain our identity, then I think it could be both reasonable and realistic. One stumbling block, as we all have seen too many times in the past, is the hesitancy to go down this road because of potential fallout within families who would become divided over this.


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The question running around in my head is if the Diaspora can appear to choose its own destiny as a reaction to the MOCís abandonment of its identity, can it actually choose its own destiny in the event of RoMís abandonment of its identity?, and if not, why not?, what are the aspects or obstacles to prevent us from doing this?
Yes it can. While I think our identity is tied to, and originated from, Macedonia, I don't think our identity is tied to the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia is a land and also an ideal.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #133
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The only thing the Diaspora can do effectively is protect Macedonian culture. Write it down, practice it, spread it. That is what we are focused on doing with LOMA. Any other type of "division" will be symbolic at best.

If you want to know where a country is going, look at the youth. In Macedonia the youth are firmly "European" globalists. Most young people who voted did so overwhelmingly for Zaev. Younger people are always more prone to lean left politically, throw on top of that high unemployment and promise of more government handouts and higher paying jobs and its obvious where they lean. Nationalism not only in Macedonia but what seems to be worldwide now a days, is a firmly conservative right leaning ideology. It's quite a hurdle to overcome. In Macedonia the youth view nationalism as something baba and dedo care about, that its selski mentality and that we are now Europeans who are above that. They inherently shy away from nationalism because of the other political ideology nationalism is tied to.

One interesting strategy would be to try and form a left leaning but nationalist party. This might have some success and goes back to what I was saying about linking nationalism to some type of reward. If you want people to care about nationalism then you have to tie it to other things they care about, a tough thing to do but I believe it would work. Besides many of our favorite revolutionaries were left leaning nationalists.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:25 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
The only thing the Diaspora can do effectively is protect Macedonian culture. Write it down, practice it, spread it. That is what we are focused on doing with LOMA. Any other type of "division" will be symbolic at best.

If you want to know where a country is going, look at the youth. In Macedonia the youth are firmly "European" globalists. Most young people who voted did so overwhelmingly for Zaev. Younger people are always more prone to lean left politically, throw on top of that high unemployment and promise of more government handouts and higher paying jobs and its obvious where they lean. Nationalism not only in Macedonia but what seems to be worldwide now a days, is a firmly conservative right leaning ideology. It's quite a hurdle to overcome. In Macedonia the youth view nationalism as something baba and dedo care about, that its selski mentality and that we are now Europeans who are above that. They inherently shy away from nationalism because of the other political ideology nationalism is tied to.

One interesting strategy would be to try and form a left leaning but nationalist party. This might have some success and goes back to what I was saying about linking nationalism to some type of reward. If you want people to care about nationalism then you have to tie it to other things they care about, a tough thing to do but I believe it would work. Besides many of our favorite revolutionaries were left leaning nationalists.
I think this is a good point. Nationalism shouldn't know a political ideology; but it, too, is on a pendulum and swings from left to right. Nationalism is meant to protect and preserve a nation -- its culture, economy, and society -- from external threats. The extreme right and left of today both interpret that to mean "anti-immigration" or "anti-trade" or "isolationism" or whatever.

I think we saw in Catalonia how left-nationalists and right-nationalists worked together on an issue. That left-nationalists are missing in Macedonia is a big problem because it puts the burden on preserving the Macedonian nation on a narrower following. You need both, left and right, to combat both the right-wing and left-wing "globalists".

If you want to create a "new" Macedonian nationalist party that's not necessarily a right-wing party, it could be tied into environmental issues. Macedonia certainly has a pollution problem, as well as a lack of respect for the land (as Tomche and I talked about earlier). And respect for local place (which can be left or right) and caring for the streams, earth and air can be linked to Macedonian culture and identity. Most of our traditional folk songs, for example, are about place, and much of this is related to nature, whether it is in the wheat fields or up in the mountains.

So there is an intersection of two non-inherently political right or left ideologies (nationalism and environmentalism) that have been captured by the right and left factions, respectively. Where these two meet could be where you could grab from both the right and left.

It's likely a long shot, though. A platform that promises money in one form or another would probably work better. It is Macedonia, after all.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:51 PM   #135
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A platform that promises money in one form or another would probably work better. It is Macedonia, after all.
Perhaps one where they change their flag and call themselves FYROM for 20 years in exchange for economic progress. Oh, hang on ....
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:46 PM   #136
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LOL. Don't be silly, that could never happen.

I say we form a party and promise all sorts of stupid shit. Macedonians believe anything as long as its not true.

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Perhaps one where they change their flag and call themselves FYROM for 20 years in exchange for economic progress. Oh, hang on ....
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