Latest official ethnic Births & Deaths Statistic 2017

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  • mklion
    Member
    • Jun 2014
    • 100

    #31
    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    Ethnic affiliation of primary school children in the municipality of Krushevo,

    2017 Albanians 47.5%


    2006/2007

    Total: 944
    – Macedonian: 547 = 57,9%
    – Albanian: 290 = 30,7%
    – Vlach: 107 = 10,9%

    2011/2012

    Total: 798
    Macedonian: 381 = 47,7%
    Albanian : 309 = 38,7%
    Vlach: 82 = 10,2%
    Bosniak: 21 = 2,6%

    2015/2016

    Total: 761
    Macedonian: 324=42.6%
    Albanain: 352=46.3%
    Vlach: 64=8.4%
    Bosniak: 14=1.8%
    Others:7=0.9%

    2016/2017

    Total: 787
    Macedonian: 337=42.8%
    Albanian: 374=47.5%
    Vlach: 59=7.5%
    Bosniak: 9=1.1%
    Others: 8=1%


    https://www.almakos.com/krusheva-me-...ste-shqiptare/

    What Albo fails to show is the whole picture. He likes to cherry pick data but what he does not realize is that I have been following the proportion of Albanians in each municipality for many years. What it shows is that in more municipalities the proportion of them has drastically decreased. Many of them have decreased to the point where Macedonian is returning as the dominant ethnicity.


    Decrease in Share of Albanians from 2006 to 2014
    Gazi Baba, Karpos, Brvenica, Gostivar, Zelenikovo, Jegunovce, Kichevo, Resen, Sopiste, Struga, Tetovo, Cucer-Sandovo


    The best part below is that Kichevo is on its way to become majority ethnic macedonian once again due to high emigration rate! Also what was once on pace to become majority Albanian like Jegunovce Sopiste and Cucer-Sandevo will once again all be Macedonian

    Gazi Baba............2006....................2014
    Total Students.......7876..................7087
    Macedonian ...........5003 63.5%......4639 65.4%
    Albanian..................2161 27.4%....1850 26.1% DECREASE


    Karpos...................2006.................2014
    Total Students..........6445................5782
    Macedonian...............5732 88.9%....5161 89.3%
    Albanian....................475 7.4%.....348 6.0% DECREASE


    Brvenica............2006.....................2014
    Total Students.....2226....................1686
    Macedonian..........714 32.1%....... 594 35.2%
    Albanian .............1512 67.9%........1092 64.7% DECREASE


    Gostivar.............2006 ..................2014
    Total Students......9950...................6686
    Macedonian..........1560 15.7%......1327 19.8%
    Albanian...............6647 66.8%........4020 60.1% DECREASE


    Zelenikovo.........2006...............2014
    Total Students......482................341
    Macedonian..........274 56.8%.....200 58.6%
    Albanian..............170 35.3%..... 101 29.6% DECREASE

    Jegunovce................2006..................201 4
    Total Students...........1213...................939
    Macedonian................578 47.6% .......513 54.6%
    Albanian ....................627 51.7% ........421 44.8% DECREASE

    Kichevo...................2006.................... .........2014
    (including Oslomej, zajas, Vranestica, Druvogo)
    Total Students...........5696........................... .3798
    Macedonian...............1824 32.0%...............1489 39.2%
    Albanian ....................3163 55.5% .............1668 43.9% DECREASE

    Ohrid.................2006......................20 14
    Total Students.....5753.....................4836
    Macedonian.........4740 82.4%........4050 83.7%
    Albanian..............420 7.3%..........256 5.3% DECREASE


    Resen..................2006...................... 2014
    Total Students........1544.....................1089
    Macedonian............1048 67.8% ........743 68.2%
    Albanian.................187 12.1% ........121 11.0% DECREASE

    Sopiste................2006....................201 4
    Total Students.........690....................539
    Macedonian.............255 37.0%.......232 43.0%
    Albanian.................385 55.8%........245 45.5% DECREASE

    Struga...............2006.....................2014
    Total Students.....7964.....................5863
    Macedonian..........2184 27.4%........ 1576 26.9%
    Albanian ..............4791 60.1%..........3093 52.7% DECREASE


    Tetovo................2006 ...................2014
    Total Students......12326................. 9871
    Macedonian............1787 14.5%....1581 16.0%
    Albanian.................9986 81.0%......7815 79.1% DECREASE

    Cucer-Sandovo.............2006 ...................2014
    Total Students...............831....................681
    Macedonian...................338 40.7%.......322 47.3%
    Albanian........................334 40.2% ......222 32.6% DECREASE
    Last edited by mklion; 01-28-2019, 03:50 PM.

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #32
      Thanks for providing the broader picture, mklion. This isn’t the first time you’ve had to intervene and clarify. This clown often has a tendency to cherry pick information without the benefit of proper context. His idiotic hit and run presence on this forum has a time limit. He won’t be around for much longer should he continue in this manner.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Albo
        Member
        • May 2014
        • 304

        #33
        I never said anything about the total number of students or anything about other municipalities.. I just mentioned Krushevo because that's what the article was about!

        Krushevo has no reflection on the general population or any other municipality for that matter..

        I didn't imply that Albanians are 47% of Macedonia..
        As for the real numbers nobody really knows due to many factors..
        But obviously the number varies depending on the time of year it is..

        I would say the number goes from 20% to 35% from winter to summer... but again nobody really knows:

        Below are the numbers for births of ethnic Macedonians since independence:

        You will see that around half the births are made up of non-Macedonians:
        1992: 15.672 (47.2%)
        1993: 15.142 (46.8%)
        1994: 14.928 (47.5%)
        1995: 13.963 (46.7%)
        1996: 13.577 (46.9%)
        1997: 12.951 (48.3%)
        1998: 12.251 (46.0%)
        1999: 11.628 (46.6%)
        2000: 12.473 (47.7%)
        2001: 11.599 (48.0%)
        2002: 12.193 (50.5%)
        2003: 11.953 (50.7%)
        2004: 12.488 (53.5%)
        2005: 11.923 (53,0%)
        2006: 11.707 (51,8%)
        2007: 11.807 (52,0%)
        2008: 12.254 (53,3%)
        2009: 12.490 (52,7%)
        2010: 12.658 (52,1%)
        2011: 11.544 (50,6%)
        2012: 11.995 (50,8%)
        2013: 11.550 (49,9%)
        2014: 12.099 (51,2%)
        2015: 12.308 (53,3%)
        2016: 12.047 (52,4%)
        2017: 11.260 (51,7%)

        Some numbers from Albanian birth rates:

        1994: 12,010 35.86%*
        2002: 10,118 36.45%*
        2012: 8,035 34.09%*
        2017: 7,404 34.03%

        Just another this on these numbers.. if we add the numbers of Albanian births that occur by migrants (who we know are a very large number) abroad from parents who are citizens but don't or haven't registered their children in Macedonia the percentage would probably be over 40% of births..

        But again we dont exactly know...

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #34
          What is the URL where this data is located, and what format is it in (i.e. csv)?

          PS: 'Citizens' who live permanently abroad (regardless of ethnicity and work status) and come back to visit for the summer months should not figure in the census numbers - period. This completely taints the picture, and defeats the very purpose of a national census. If such a scenario were to take place the collected data would need to be flushed down the toilet.
          Last edited by Carlin; 01-28-2019, 07:38 PM.

          Comment

          • Gocka
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 2306

            #35
            In that shit hole its impossible to put much faith in any statistics regardless of origin. Everything is backwards.

            Also how retarded is Albo for saying that the % of Albanian citizens in Macedonia fluctuates along with the seasons. Apparently he doesn't know the difference between residents and visitors.

            If you only come back to the country for a month in the summer, YOU DON'T LIVE THERE! How can we ever live in harmony with this people. They disregard everything and anything that is contrary to their desired narrative. What ever the topic, the only right answer is the one that enhances Albanians claims to our land.


            Albo,

            Why don't you stop beating around the bush and just admit that you believe Albanians have claim to Macedonian lands. That you don't believe Macedonians are your hosts, rather the other way around. That you want nothing to do with Macedonia or Macedonians, rather you want autonomous rule over and land where Albanians reside.

            Comment

            • mklion
              Member
              • Jun 2014
              • 100

              #36
              Originally posted by Albo View Post
              I never said anything about the total number of students or anything about other municipalities.. I just mentioned Krushevo because that's what the article was about!

              Krushevo has no reflection on the general population or any other municipality for that matter..

              I didn't imply that Albanians are 47% of Macedonia..
              As for the real numbers nobody really knows due to many factors..
              But obviously the number varies depending on the time of year it is..

              I would say the number goes from 20% to 35% from winter to summer... but again nobody really knows:
              Albanians are 25-28% of the population currently bringing them to around 470000 of the population. If Macedonia was to hold a census properly that would be the amount


              Originally posted by Albo View Post

              Below are the numbers for births of ethnic Macedonians since independence:

              You will see that around half the births are made up of non-Macedonians:
              1992: 15.672 (47.2%)
              1993: 15.142 (46.8%)
              1994: 14.928 (47.5%)
              1995: 13.963 (46.7%)
              1996: 13.577 (46.9%)
              1997: 12.951 (48.3%)
              1998: 12.251 (46.0%)
              1999: 11.628 (46.6%)
              2000: 12.473 (47.7%)
              2001: 11.599 (48.0%)
              2002: 12.193 (50.5%)
              2003: 11.953 (50.7%)
              2004: 12.488 (53.5%)
              2005: 11.923 (53,0%)
              2006: 11.707 (51,8%)
              2007: 11.807 (52,0%)
              2008: 12.254 (53,3%)
              2009: 12.490 (52,7%)
              2010: 12.658 (52,1%)
              2011: 11.544 (50,6%)
              2012: 11.995 (50,8%)
              2013: 11.550 (49,9%)
              2014: 12.099 (51,2%)
              2015: 12.308 (53,3%)
              2016: 12.047 (52,4%)
              2017: 11.260 (51,7%)

              Some numbers from Albanian birth rates:

              1994: 12,010 35.86%*
              2002: 10,118 36.45%*
              2012: 8,035 34.09%*
              2017: 7,404 34.03%

              Just another this on these numbers.. if we add the numbers of Albanian births that occur by migrants (who we know are a very large number) abroad from parents who are citizens but don't or haven't registered their children in Macedonia the percentage would probably be over 40% of births..

              But again we dont exactly know...
              Macedonian do not have to make up a larger percentage if births to maintain power in the country. They have always had lower than average births compared to the rest of the population.

              The reason they maintain control is due to high emigration rate of the minorities. Albanians can never reach even 30% of the population due to their high emigration. Even if they did they are confined to their albanian municipalities and don't venture off and live in other areas of the country other than the capital.

              Also this is a common argument about how if Albanians have never emigrated the they would be 40% of births and a majority of the country by now. Well let's not forget that over 500000 Macedonian have left the country as well. If they have never left we would be an absolute majority in the country

              Comment

              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                #37
                You seem confident in the numbers you provided.

                It may be possible Albanians are over 30% (not far off from your estimates), while Macedonians are less than 60% right now.

                Comment

                • Niko777
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 1895

                  #38
                  1. Albanians who leave the country are investing in their villages a lot more than Macedonians who leave the country. Albanians are building luxury housing and many of their villages look like small cities. True, most of these houses are empty, but such a large investment implies that these Albanians are planning to return in the near future.

                  2. Not only are Macedonians not investing in their villages, they are selling their land more than the Albanians are. Albanians may not be buying land in Eastern Macedonia, but they are moving eastwards in non-Albanian areas. A Macedonian would never buy land and consider moving into an Albanian dominated neighborhood, but Albanians WILL buy land and move into a Macedonian neighborhood. This has been the case in the last 100 years. Villages in Bitola, Resen, Krushevo, Demir Hisar - these places will be targeted next by the Albanians as Macedonians are selling land for cheap prices. Recently in Lerinsko, we have seen more and more Albanians, usually from Korca, buy old houses in Macedonian villages, renovate them and move their families their.

                  Comment

                  • mklion
                    Member
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 100

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                    1. Albanians who leave the country are investing in their villages a lot more than Macedonians who leave the country. Albanians are building luxury housing and many of their villages look like small cities. True, most of these houses are empty, but such a large investment implies that these Albanians are planning to return in the near future.

                    2. Not only are Macedonians not investing in their villages, they are selling their land more than the Albanians are. Albanians may not be buying land in Eastern Macedonia, but they are moving eastwards in non-Albanian areas. A Macedonian would never buy land and consider moving into an Albanian dominated neighborhood, but Albanians WILL buy land and move into a Macedonian neighborhood. This has been the case in the last 100 years. Villages in Bitola, Resen, Krushevo, Demir Hisar - these places will be targeted next by the Albanians as Macedonians are selling land for cheap prices. Recently in Lerinsko, we have seen more and more Albanians, usually from Korca, buy old houses in Macedonian villages, renovate them and move their families their.
                    The main reason most albanians invest is because a lot of them move to Western Europe whereas Macedonian have moved to Australia , Canada and the US.

                    It's a proximity thing more than anything else. They don't live in Macedonia but simply treat the country as a vacation destination.

                    The perfect example is the village of veleshta in struga region. Here there are many mega homes that are more like vacation properties than anything else. If you drive through the village you will notice that most of them are boarded up with the window blinds closed even in the summer months.

                    Believe me that once anyone leaves Macedonia and sees how a proper country is run (like germany for example) they will never come back. If you were albanian and your kids are ready to go to school would you send them to Veleshta school or a nice Western school in Germany?

                    Comment

                    • Tomche Makedonche
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2011
                      • 1123

                      #40
                      They are holiday houses until they become retirement houses.

                      Plenty of Macedonians who reside in other European countries do the same. The odd Australian does it as well
                      “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                      Comment

                      • maco2envy
                        Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 288

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                        You seem confident in the numbers you provided.

                        It may be possible Albanians are over 30% (not far off from your estimates), while Macedonians are less than 60% right now.
                        The referendum results, even with the mass fabrication in Albanian regions are contrary to this.

                        Comment

                        • VMRO
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1462

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                          1. Albanians who leave the country are investing in their villages a lot more than Macedonians who leave the country. Albanians are building luxury housing and many of their villages look like small cities. True, most of these houses are empty, but such a large investment implies that these Albanians are planning to return in the near future.

                          2. Not only are Macedonians not investing in their villages, they are selling their land more than the Albanians are. Albanians may not be buying land in Eastern Macedonia, but they are moving eastwards in non-Albanian areas. A Macedonian would never buy land and consider moving into an Albanian dominated neighborhood, but Albanians WILL buy land and move into a Macedonian neighborhood. This has been the case in the last 100 years. Villages in Bitola, Resen, Krushevo, Demir Hisar - these places will be targeted next by the Albanians as Macedonians are selling land for cheap prices. Recently in Lerinsko, we have seen more and more Albanians, usually from Korca, buy old houses in Macedonian villages, renovate them and move their families their.
                          I highly doubt they would ever come back to live.

                          They treat those homes as weekend homes for when they go back to Macedonia and party up with their Euros.
                          Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                          Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                          Comment

                          • Rogi
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2343

                            #43
                            They will return to those houses in retirement, living off their pension money from Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, etc. That is when we'll have a seizmic demographic shift, lasting 2-3 decades.

                            Comment

                            • Phoenix
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 4671

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                              They will return to those houses in retirement, living off their pension money from Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, etc. That is when we'll have a seizmic demographic shift, lasting 2-3 decades.
                              Not necessarily Rogi...sure some possibly will but most will make their new home in their new country, that's where they build their new lives, their children and grandchildren become connected to the new country in an inextricable way...it is another chapter of the human migration story, a constant for millennia now...

                              Comment

                              • Gocka
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2012
                                • 2306

                                #45
                                They won't come back.

                                Almost every Macedonian family I know who emigrated in the 70's and 80's also thought they would one day go back, but they never did. Most of them built or renovated homes, sent lots of money back home.

                                In the end most people are going to stay where their kids and grand kids are. No kid born in Italy or Switzerland is going to want to start a life in that shit hole (NMK). It was the same reason Macedonians never came back. Younger generations became educated and Americanized and live decent lives here, why would they uproot everything to go back to a third world country and deal with petty thieves and morons.

                                If you don't believe me just look at Bulgaria. They are a decade or two ahead of us, in a decade or two all these countries will be left with nothing but graves and bums.

                                Comment

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