Was the Macedonian name taboo in Greece prior to the 1980s?

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  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    #46
    This is google translation (written by the Secretary of the Ministry K. Parthenopoulos) about the History of the Ministry. This is only the First Part actually.

    Part A'. The General Administration Period

    The first concern after the liberation of Macedonia in 1912 was to rule the so-called "New Countries". There are no gaps in the Government, and therefore the vacuum left by the Turks at Government level had to be covered and Macedonia managed effectively in such a difficult phase of reconstruction. The then government officials preferred the General Administration model, a form of Government, a remnant of the Colonies that long used colonial countries, although it was called General Administration and not Governor-Governor.

    Thus, instead of extending the then-existing government system of prefectures, the system of independent regional administrations, which was called a system of General Administrations instead of the better governors, was preferred. Initially, five General Administrations were established (Law 1912), those of Macedonia, Crete, Aegean, Epirus and Samos - Ikaria. The purpose of the legislator was obvious. He wanted these countries to be governed by a tighter and more direct system, so that all the necessary reforms and adaptations are made in the quickest and most effective way.

    The General Adminis- trations are headed by the respective General Governor (Governor) with wide powers and assigned to it legislative and executive power. This institution was very decentralizing and beyond the limits of good administrative and decentralization. The General Governor (Governor) was empowered to appoint and dismiss employees, to appoint duties, to approve and to create expenditures, to deal in general with blank income and state property.

    The lower ranks of the administration in the new countries, ie the real public administration, are originally those of the previous system (vilaetia and santzakia), except that Greek governors were appointed to the position of the Turks.

    The first attempt to extend the administrative system of "Old Greece" to the "New Countries" is made by Law 5224/1914 which extends the application of the prefectural system to the liberalized territories of the new countries. At the same time, General Administrations are abolished. Thus, in 1914 we have the first abolition of General Administrations.

    From 1914 to 1918 there were no General Administrations. It seems that in the prefectural system it was not effective for the conjuncture and for that reason the Venizelos Government with Law 1149/1918 restored the institution of General Administrations with increased overriding competencies. Indeed, the Governor-General now has the rank of Minister. By ND 10/12 February 1918, the executive of the above law, Macedonia is divided into two General Administrations, Thessaloniki and Kozani-Florina. Only General Governors of Thessaloniki, Crete and Epirus had the rank of Minister.

    In 1922, with the annexation of Thrace, the corresponding General Administration of Thrace, established in Alexandroupoli (Law 2782/1922), is also recommended. The operation of the General Administrations and the daily friction between General Administrations and central government have created many problems, and perhaps that is why the Government of Michalakopoulou has been forced to deal with the problem of defining the responsibilities of the General Governors and the Prefectures. In any case, the definition of the limits of competence between the two levels of administration was also necessary for operational reasons.

    The Ministry of the Interior, then, with Minister G. Kondylis, issues Law 3265/1925, which makes the first substantial attempt to record the responsibilities of the General Governors. By Presidential Decree 26/26 January 1925, all the powers transferred to the General Governor are listed. A small mention of these competences shows us their wide range:
    The General Commander was responsible for:
    • About the Office of the Minister Interior
    • About Education
    • About the performance of public works
    • About the TTT Service
    • The Forestry Office
    ; About welfare services and public perceptions
    • On health services (sic)
    • .................................................. .......... .. and so on.

    It is also noticed that the organizational planning of the General Administrations, which are organized as decentralized Third Level Services with their addresses representing the respective central ministries in their area of responsibility, is made. An analogous approach was also attempted with the current organization of the YMAT (PD 167/2005) but with the most advanced form of organization, staffing and operation (a matrix type organization system).

    While it appeared that for a moment the administrative organization of the new sites would be dominated by the system of decentralized General Administrations (now Regions), however, after a few months with the Presidential Dec 1/5 1928, all General Administrations except Thessaloniki are abolished.

    In 1929 the General Administration of Thessaloniki renamed the General Administration of Macedonia and was downgraded by a decentralized unit with super powers to a "simple observer of services and transferor of complaints to the center". This second substantially abolition of the institution has led to administrative regression and loss of opportunity for administrative modernization and development of the country.

    We can see, therefore, that in 1926 the effort to upgrade the institution led to a decentralized strong Ministry of Regional Administration, in 1929 it deteriorated considerably. In the same year as Law 4393 and Presidential Decree 27/27 December 1929, we have a second attempt to upgrade the institution of General Administration. The General Governor now exercises in his area of responsibility "the rights of the ministers according to the laws in force, decides on the subject of his jurisdiction, except for the ordinances of appointed". The sequence of downgrades and upgrades does not benefit the institution. On the contrary, it discredits all its dynamic properties and discourages staff and managers.


    By the type of the general clause, the reserve, ie the delegation of powers, powers are transferred from ministers to a regional body. Most importantly, the presumption of competence is in favor of the General Governor and not the Minister.

    In this way the 1929 reform promoted the General Governor to an essential regional minister. In parallel with the same law (4393/1929 Presidential Decree 27 / 27.12.'29), a post is also recommended. in C. Administration of Macedonia.

    Even more, PD 15 / 22.2.1930 abolishes the Prefecture of Thessaloniki and its personnel are transferred to the General Administration of Macedonia. This was inappropriate because it involved the responsibilities of the GC with those of the Prefecture instead of separating them into two distinct levels. With AN. 130/1936 the Metaxas regime comes and strengthens the position of the prefectures against the Governors, thus deactivating the regime of Law 4393/1929 as a natural consequence of the above.

    The process of upgrading - degrading the institution of C. Administrations is a continuous move of an administrative pendulum with indefinite and unstable periodicity. Law 1488/1938 allowed the appointment of a Governor to a Minister or Deputy Minister and the appointment of a Governor-General with the rank of Minister or Deputy Minister with the responsibilities of the General Administration and simultaneous participation in the Council of Ministers. Here the system moves backwards. The General Administration is now involved with the Central Government. Thus, we see the institution of General Administration moving between central government (concentration) and prefectures (decentralization) and forming an intermediate space, that of the periphery.


    The end of the World War and the Occupation finds the country's administrative charter to have five General Administrations: Macedonia, Thrace, Epirus, Peloponnese and Crete. Instead of evolving the institution as we mentioned above, all the General Administrations are abolished at the same time, and new organizational schemes such as the 17 government representations comprising one or more prefectures are being established.

    The lifetime of these shapes was two months, when General Administrations were abolished and re-established from scratch. The third abolition of the institution was temporary and short-term.

    In March 1945 with AN 209/45 the General Administration of Northern Greece was established for the first time with the Governor of the Ministry. Later services are being created (repatriated refugees, trade - industry etc.) and thus we have the General Administration of Northern Greece with Governors of E. Macedonia, W. Macedonia, C. Macedonia and Thrace. This is a new variant of the system with Commanders and General Commanders.

    In 1947, the individual Governments of Macedonia were abolished and the General Administration of Macedonia was established. At this time there is a sequence of continuous changes and modifications that have no administrative or organizational logic. We have, for the Northern Greece, General Administrations, Administrations and Prefectures, ie three levels of Administration, while in the rest of the country there were only counties. A clear administrative incompatibility across the country.

    This fact of the administrative paradoxology lasts until 1950 when the General Administration of Macedonia is abolished and its responsibilities are transferred to the General Governor of Northern Greece. At the same time, the institution moves into a phase of increasing deforestation and gradual downgrading. The role of the General Governor during 1950-1955 becomes purely oversight of the Public Services and Organizations of his area of responsibility (N. Greece).

    The importance of the North Helladic area and the sensitive historical circumstances have made Northern Greece a very important region for the Greek territory. For this reason, it attracted the interest of the administrative legislator far more than other regions. As a result, the Laws ND 2547/1953 (recasting of N.195 / 1946) and two years later of Law 3200/1955 on decentralization, which abolished all the General Administrations and replaced the position of the Minister of Northern Greece with the seat of Thessaloniki. The fourth abolition of the General Administration was also final.

    Thus, as it appeared from the above historical path, 42 years after its creation, the institution of General Administration (Government) is virtually abolished. It was an institution that despite its title, which remained stable, its content and role changed constantly in an undetermined and meteorological way. While it was proposed as a transitional and temporary form of government and not only administration, especially in the north-Hellenic area, it has often become a competitor of the prefectural and the ministerial system.

    It failed to stabilize as a regional form of administration and after finalizing the devolved system in its prefectural form, it had to either abolish or take a more functional form at the level of the region (second or middle level). The way out of the creation of the position of the Minister of Northern Greece was the beginning of the creation of regional Ministries for the country, which opened a new period in its administrative history. But this form of the regional government has not stabilized.
    The effort with the creation of the Regional Ministries of Macedonia, Thrace and the Aegean has not been successful, perhaps because it was not relied on enough and mainly because the notifying and significant difference between Regional Ministries (multidisciplinary) and central or federal Ministries that are monothematic is not highlighted.

    Now that the institution of the Prefectural Administration has come to an end (from Administration to Local Government) it may be time to re-examine the levels of administration and self-government (2 + 2 or 2 + 1) (Ministries-Regions + Prefectures-Municipalities).


    ==
    Last edited by Amphipolis; 04-20-2018, 02:45 AM.

    Comment

    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1595

      #47
      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
      This is google translation (written by the Secretary of the Ministry K. Parthenopoulos) about the History of the Ministry. This is only the First Part actually.

      Part A'. The General Administration Period

      The first concern after the liberation of Macedonia in 1912 was to rule the so-called "New Countries". There are no gaps in the Government, and therefore the vacuum left by the Turks at Government level had to be covered and Macedonia managed effectively in such a difficult phase of reconstruction. The then government officials preferred the General Administration model, a form of Government, a remnant of the Colonies that long used colonial countries, although it was called General Administration and not Governor-Governor.

      Thus, instead of extending the then-existing government system of prefectures, the system of independent regional administrations, which was called a system of General Administrations instead of the better governors, was preferred. Initially, five General Administrations were established (Law 1912), those of Macedonia, Crete, Aegean, Epirus and Samos - Ikaria. The purpose of the legislator was obvious. He wanted these countries to be governed by a tighter and more direct system, so that all the necessary reforms and adaptations are made in the quickest and most effective way.

      The General Adminis- trations are headed by the respective General Governor (Governor) with wide powers and assigned to it legislative and executive power. This institution was very decentralizing and beyond the limits of good administrative and decentralization. The General Governor (Governor) was empowered to appoint and dismiss employees, to appoint duties, to approve and to create expenditures, to deal in general with blank income and state property.

      The lower ranks of the administration in the new countries, ie the real public administration, are originally those of the previous system (vilaetia and santzakia), except that Greek governors were appointed to the position of the Turks.

      The first attempt to extend the administrative system of "Old Greece" to the "New Countries" is made by Law 5224/1914 which extends the application of the prefectural system to the liberalized territories of the new countries. At the same time, General Administrations are abolished. Thus, in 1914 we have the first abolition of General Administrations.

      From 1914 to 1918 there were no General Administrations. It seems that in the prefectural system it was not effective for the conjuncture and for that reason the Venizelos Government with Law 1149/1918 restored the institution of General Administrations with increased overriding competencies. Indeed, the Governor-General now has the rank of Minister. By ND 10/12 February 1918, the executive of the above law, Macedonia is divided into two General Administrations, Thessaloniki and Kozani-Florina. Only General Governors of Thessaloniki, Crete and Epirus had the rank of Minister.

      In 1922, with the annexation of Thrace, the corresponding General Administration of Thrace, established in Alexandroupoli (Law 2782/1922), is also recommended. The operation of the General Administrations and the daily friction between General Administrations and central government have created many problems, and perhaps that is why the Government of Michalakopoulou has been forced to deal with the problem of defining the responsibilities of the General Governors and the Prefectures. In any case, the definition of the limits of competence between the two levels of administration was also necessary for operational reasons.

      The Ministry of the Interior, then, with Minister G. Kondylis, issues Law 3265/1925, which makes the first substantial attempt to record the responsibilities of the General Governors. By Presidential Decree 26/26 January 1925, all the powers transferred to the General Governor are listed. A small mention of these competences shows us their wide range:
      The General Commander was responsible for:
      • About the Office of the Minister Interior
      • About Education
      • About the performance of public works
      • About the TTT Service
      • The Forestry Office
      ; About welfare services and public perceptions
      • On health services (sic)
      • .................................................. .......... .. and so on.

      It is also noticed that the organizational planning of the General Administrations, which are organized as decentralized Third Level Services with their addresses representing the respective central ministries in their area of responsibility, is made. An analogous approach was also attempted with the current organization of the YMAT (PD 167/2005) but with the most advanced form of organization, staffing and operation (a matrix type organization system).

      While it appeared that for a moment the administrative organization of the new sites would be dominated by the system of decentralized General Administrations (now Regions), however, after a few months with the Presidential Dec 1/5 1928, all General Administrations except Thessaloniki are abolished.

      In 1929 the General Administration of Thessaloniki renamed the General Administration of Macedonia and was downgraded by a decentralized unit with super powers to a "simple observer of services and transferor of complaints to the center". This second substantially abolition of the institution has led to administrative regression and loss of opportunity for administrative modernization and development of the country.

      We can see, therefore, that in 1926 the effort to upgrade the institution led to a decentralized strong Ministry of Regional Administration, in 1929 it deteriorated considerably. In the same year as Law 4393 and Presidential Decree 27/27 December 1929, we have a second attempt to upgrade the institution of General Administration. The General Governor now exercises in his area of responsibility "the rights of the ministers according to the laws in force, decides on the subject of his jurisdiction, except for the ordinances of appointed". The sequence of downgrades and upgrades does not benefit the institution. On the contrary, it discredits all its dynamic properties and discourages staff and managers.


      By the type of the general clause, the reserve, ie the delegation of powers, powers are transferred from ministers to a regional body. Most importantly, the presumption of competence is in favor of the General Governor and not the Minister.

      In this way the 1929 reform promoted the General Governor to an essential regional minister. In parallel with the same law (4393/1929 Presidential Decree 27 / 27.12.'29), a post is also recommended. in C. Administration of Macedonia.

      Even more, PD 15 / 22.2.1930 abolishes the Prefecture of Thessaloniki and its personnel are transferred to the General Administration of Macedonia. This was inappropriate because it involved the responsibilities of the GC with those of the Prefecture instead of separating them into two distinct levels. With AN. 130/1936 the Metaxas regime comes and strengthens the position of the prefectures against the Governors, thus deactivating the regime of Law 4393/1929 as a natural consequence of the above.

      The process of upgrading - degrading the institution of C. Administrations is a continuous move of an administrative pendulum with indefinite and unstable periodicity. Law 1488/1938 allowed the appointment of a Governor to a Minister or Deputy Minister and the appointment of a Governor-General with the rank of Minister or Deputy Minister with the responsibilities of the General Administration and simultaneous participation in the Council of Ministers. Here the system moves backwards. The General Administration is now involved with the Central Government. Thus, we see the institution of General Administration moving between central government (concentration) and prefectures (decentralization) and forming an intermediate space, that of the periphery.


      The end of the World War and the Occupation finds the country's administrative charter to have five General Administrations: Macedonia, Thrace, Epirus, Peloponnese and Crete. Instead of evolving the institution as we mentioned above, all the General Administrations are abolished at the same time, and new organizational schemes such as the 17 government representations comprising one or more prefectures are being established.

      The lifetime of these shapes was two months, when General Administrations were abolished and re-established from scratch. The third abolition of the institution was temporary and short-term.

      In March 1945 with AN 209/45 the General Administration of Northern Greece was established for the first time with the Governor of the Ministry. Later services are being created (repatriated refugees, trade - industry etc.) and thus we have the General Administration of Northern Greece with Governors of E. Macedonia, W. Macedonia, C. Macedonia and Thrace. This is a new variant of the system with Commanders and General Commanders.

      In 1947, the individual Governments of Macedonia were abolished and the General Administration of Macedonia was established. At this time there is a sequence of continuous changes and modifications that have no administrative or organizational logic. We have, for the Northern Greece, General Administrations, Administrations and Prefectures, ie three levels of Administration, while in the rest of the country there were only counties. A clear administrative incompatibility across the country.

      This fact of the administrative paradoxology lasts until 1950 when the General Administration of Macedonia is abolished and its responsibilities are transferred to the General Governor of Northern Greece. At the same time, the institution moves into a phase of increasing deforestation and gradual downgrading. The role of the General Governor during 1950-1955 becomes purely oversight of the Public Services and Organizations of his area of responsibility (N. Greece).

      The importance of the North Helladic area and the sensitive historical circumstances have made Northern Greece a very important region for the Greek territory. For this reason, it attracted the interest of the administrative legislator far more than other regions. As a result, the Laws ND 2547/1953 (recasting of N.195 / 1946) and two years later of Law 3200/1955 on decentralization, which abolished all the General Administrations and replaced the position of the Minister of Northern Greece with the seat of Thessaloniki. The fourth abolition of the General Administration was also final.

      Thus, as it appeared from the above historical path, 42 years after its creation, the institution of General Administration (Government) is virtually abolished. It was an institution that despite its title, which remained stable, its content and role changed constantly in an undetermined and meteorological way. While it was proposed as a transitional and temporary form of government and not only administration, especially in the north-Hellenic area, it has often become a competitor of the prefectural and the ministerial system.

      It failed to stabilize as a regional form of administration and after finalizing the devolved system in its prefectural form, it had to either abolish or take a more functional form at the level of the region (second or middle level). The way out of the creation of the position of the Minister of Northern Greece was the beginning of the creation of regional Ministries for the country, which opened a new period in its administrative history. But this form of the regional government has not stabilized.
      The effort with the creation of the Regional Ministries of Macedonia, Thrace and the Aegean has not been successful, perhaps because it was not relied on enough and mainly because the notifying and significant difference between Regional Ministries (multidisciplinary) and central or federal Ministries that are monothematic is not highlighted.

      Now that the institution of the Prefectural Administration has come to an end (from Administration to Local Government) it may be time to re-examine the levels of administration and self-government (2 + 2 or 2 + 1) (Ministries-Regions + Prefectures-Municipalities).


      ==
      So this guy says the name change was in 1945 instead of the 1920s? Does not change the outcome that the name was changed.
      Last edited by Liberator of Makedonija; 04-20-2018, 10:28 PM.
      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

      Comment

      • tchaiku
        Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 786

        #48
        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
        Can't compare the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople of the Middle Ages to the modern Greek Orthodox Church.

        Either way your comments aren't relevant to this thread, we're discussing the period between 1912 and 1988, medieval history isn't necessary here.
        Agreed but today's Greeks are the succesors of the Byzantine Empire.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #49
          Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
          Agreed but today's Greeks are the succesors of the Byzantine Empire.
          Totally bullshit.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            #50
            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
            Totally bullshit.
            How? They called themselves Romans till the 19th century.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #51
              You're suggesting anyone associated with Byzantium (a modern term) was Greek. Which is bullshit and you should know better.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Amphipolis
                Banned
                • Aug 2014
                • 1328

                #52
                Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                How? They called themselves Romans till the 19th century.
                Greeks have very recently stopped calling themselves Roman (Romios). The term was certainly used in the 1960s and 70s. Nowadays it sounds very old-fashioned and it is even used with a slight ironic or negative mood.

                Comment

                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1595

                  #53
                  Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                  Agreed but today's Greeks are the succesors of the Byzantine Empire.
                  How are they? The empire referred to itself as the Roman Empire. If anything Italians have a better claim to succession.
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                  Comment

                  • Amphipolis
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 1328

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    The reason is simple. The New Territories are STILL under the canonical jurisdiction of the Patriarch and NOT the Greek Orthodox Church.

                    Always gives me a warm feeling to remind Greeks of this.
                    The Church of Greece has a parliamentary-like system and a body called the Holy Synod. Holy Synod takes votes on any matter and also elects the Archbishop of Greece. While Macedonia is part of it, there are indeed parts of Greece that do not belong to the Church of Greece, that is Crete, Dodecanese and of course Mount Athos that is an overall special case.

                    The jurisdiction or privileges of Patriarchate over the "New Lands" is symbolic and practically means nothing.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                      The jurisdiction or privileges of Patriarchate over the "New Lands" is symbolic and practically means nothing.
                      I would say it means more than nothing. I'm very confident the Greek breakaway church would choose not to antagonise the Patriarchate in any manner here and will not seek to assert itself in any offensive way.

                      The Patriarchate allows your breakaway church in a caretaking capacity there. Nothing more.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        I would say it means more than nothing. I'm very confident the Greek breakaway church would choose not to antagonise the Patriarchate in any manner here and will not seek to assert itself in any offensive way.

                        The Patriarchate allows your breakaway church in a caretaking capacity there. Nothing more.
                        Nope, the Patriarchate is seen with nostalgia and respect (like a mother) and is rarely a threat or a problem. Frictions appear now and then, but not something dramatic. Sometimes, the Patriarch has to make pro-Turkish statements, and we understand and tolerate that, because he’s like a hostage there. If the Patriarchate ever clashed with the Church of Greece, they would find they have no political impact in Greece.

                        On the other hand, the Patriarchate is eclipsing, (so it's more like a dying mother), that's why in the near future it will need people from Greece. There’s always a chance that the current Patriarch will be the last one.

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                          How are they? The empire referred to itself as the Roman Empire. If anything Italians have a better claim to succession.
                          It was a multiethnic empire in which Roman Orthodox Christians were called Romioi to denote the union of the Greek language with the Roman imperial law and the Christian faith, what came to be known ελληνοχριστιανικο ιδεωδες (greek-christian civilisation).

                          Part of the Greek spears became also Thracians, Western Anatolians, Southern Illyrians etc. before the Albanians, Vlachs, Slavs etc.

                          So no more Achaeans, Illyrians, Dorians, Hellenes.

                          The language in many cases did not differ the Greek Orthodox Christians (or the Romans) from each other, from example Arvanites during the Ottoman rule were much closer to other Romans than they were to Muslim Albanians.

                          Gradually the Romans became more interested in ancient Greece (it started in 11th century)And by the 19th century nobody was interested in restoring the Byzantine Empire, so the best way to get help was for the Romans to become Greeks and that's how it began:
                          Last edited by tchaiku; 04-21-2018, 03:01 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                            Nope, the Patriarchate is seen with nostalgia and respect (like a mother) and is rarely a threat or a problem. Frictions appear now and then, but not something dramatic. Sometimes, the Patriarch has to make pro-Turkish statements, and we understand and tolerate that, because he’s like a hostage there. If the Patriarchate ever clashed with the Church of Greece, they would find they have no political impact in Greece.

                            On the other hand, the Patriarchate is eclipsing, (so it's more like a dying mother), that's why in the near future it will need people from Greece. There’s always a chance that the current Patriarch will be the last one.
                            So when the Patriarch sends invitations only to Southern Greek Metropolitans such as in 2015 or only communicates with the ones from the new territories on other occasions, would you call that being the mother slapping it's naughty child?

                            There is tension there and I wouldn't call it a mother child relationship.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Amphipolis
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 1328

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              So when the Patriarch sends invitations only to Southern Greek Metropolitans such as in 2015 or only communicates with the ones from the new territories on other occasions, would you call that being the mother slapping it's naughty child?

                              There is tension there and I wouldn't call it a mother child relationship.
                              While I do remember occasions of friction, they were so trivial that I don't remember either what is was about or how it was demonstrated. I've no idea what this invitations thing you mention is, tell us more.

                              Patriarchate is like a dying mother. It can't slap, it's powerless.

                              Comment

                              • Liberator of Makedonija
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2014
                                • 1595

                                #60
                                Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                                It was a multiethnic empire in which Roman Orthodox Christians were called Romioi to denote the union of the Greek language with the Roman imperial law and the Christian faith, what came to be known ελληνοχριστιανικο ιδεωδες (greek-christian civilisation).

                                Part of the Greek spears became also Thracians, Western Anatolians, Southern Illyrians etc. before the Albanians, Vlachs, Slavs etc.

                                So no more Achaeans, Illyrians, Dorians, Hellenes.

                                The language in many cases did not differ the Greek Orthodox Christians (or the Romans) from each other, from example Arvanites during the Ottoman rule were much closer to other Romans than they were to Muslim Albanians.

                                Gradually the Romans became more interested in ancient Greece (it started in 11th century)And by the 19th century nobody was interested in restoring the Byzantine Empire, so the best way to get help was for the Romans to become Greeks and that's how it began:


                                Where have you gotten this info from? The Greek language was never used adminstratively in the Roman Empire. The Romaic language was but not Modern Greek.
                                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                                Comment

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