John Bitove

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski, He said it in his Speech at the UMD Conference, he also gave high praise towards the UMD organization.

Can you provide any evidence or not?

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, This is what i heard on the Maknews Forum, i wasnt at the UMD Conference so i guess we'll see it once the video comes up.

In the mean time here are some highlights of the UMD Conference

YouTube - Globalna Konferencija

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski, This is what i heard on the Maknews Forum, i wasnt at the UMD Conference so i guess we'll see it once the video comes up.

In the mean time here are some highlights of the UMD Conference

YouTube - Globalna Konferencija

So Prolet,

You are basically spreading charshiski muabeti you heard at Cafe Maknews?

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, First of all whats your opinion of the footage i gave you? What did you think about Lui Temelkovski saying that he is a proud Macedonian?

Second, Its not a Charshiski Muabet it was mentioned by people who went to the UMD Conference, Bitove even mentioned that he wont live to see it (Reunification of Vardar,Pirin and Egej)

[Bratot]

So did Bitove took those 800.000 $ for his plan to unite Macedonia one day or what?

I don't see what has to do one thing with another. Ljubco Georgievski was a hardcore patriot back on 1991 so what we got from it, nothing. I think one statement doesn't cover up for some sins he or someone else got on his shoulders.

Those conferences are worth nothing cause the actions are missing.

We are tired from self proclamed biggest patriots ever who get wetty on getting rewards for exchange of empty praise.

[Vangelovski]

The New York Times
3 July 1992

Until recently, the United States and most Governments of the European Community accepted not only the Republic of Macedonia's credentials as a newly independent nation but also its chosen designation.

What changed , European diplomats and Administration officials said, was a perception that President Gligorov was willing to make some sort of compromise on the name issue. This perception was apparently created by remarks made in the spring by Macedonian leaders to European officials and by an American lobbyist.

"There were indications that there was some flexibility there," a senior State Department official said. 'A Deal to Be Made'

According to State Department officials and Macedonian representatives here, the idea of Skopje's flexibility was spread last month by Robert C. McFarlane, the former national security adviser, who was hired several months ago as a lobbyist by Macedonians.

An Administration official said that after President Gligorov's visit to Washington in mid-May, Mr. McFarlane was quoted by State Department officials as saying: " There's a deal to be made. Gligorov sees a need for it."

In a telephone interview, Mr. McFarlane acknowledged speaking to State Department officials about Macedonia. He said he was being paid "a modest sum" by John Bitove, whom he described as a Toronto businessman of Macedonian origin. In fact, Mr. Bitove is president of the Canadian Macedonian Society, which is closely linked to President Gligorov.

In the category of "lobbyists," the society's May 25 financial summary lists disbursements of $39,021.04 to McFarlane Associates, Mr. McFarlane's Washington-based company. A total of $73,717.61 is listed as "payable" to the firm.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/04/world/west-supports-athens-on-macedonia.html

According to this New York Times article, Bitove was paying McFarlane who put out the idea that Macedonia was willing to compromise on the name. Prior to that, the article states, the US and the then EC was ready to accept Macedonia's name. Indeed it seems Bitove was donating to the "cause", but what "cause" exactly?

[Bratot]

the new york times
3 july 1992

until recently, the united states and most governments of the european community accepted not only the republic of macedonia's credentials as a newly independent nation but also its chosen designation.

what changed , european diplomats and administration officials said, was a perception that president gligorov was willing to make some sort of compromise on the name issue. this perception was apparently created by remarks made in the spring by macedonian leaders to european officials and by an american lobbyist.

"there were indications that there was some flexibility there," a senior state department official said. 'a deal to be made'

according to state department officials and macedonian representatives here, the idea of skopje's flexibility was spread last month by robert c. Mcfarlane, the former national security adviser, who was hired several months ago as a lobbyist by macedonians.

An administration official said that after president gligorov's visit to washington in mid-may, mr. Mcfarlane was quoted by state department officials as saying: " there's a deal to be made. Gligorov sees a need for it."

in a telephone interview, mr. Mcfarlane acknowledged speaking to state department officials about macedonia. He said he was being paid "a modest sum" by john bitove, whom he described as a toronto businessman of macedonian origin. In fact, mr. Bitove is president of the canadian macedonian society, which is closely linked to president gligorov.

In the category of "lobbyists," the society's may 25 financial summary lists disbursements of $39,021.04 to mcfarlane associates, mr. Mcfarlane's washington-based company. A total of $73,717.61 is listed as "payable" to the firm.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/04/world/west-supports-athens-on-macedonia.html

according to this new york times article, bitove was paying mcfarlane who put out the idea that macedonia was willing to compromise on the name. Prior to that, the us and the then ec was ready to accept macedonia's name. Indeed it seems bitove was donating to the "cause", but what "cause" exactly?

ГЛИГОРОВ ПОПУШТАЛ ЗА ИМЕТО

Но многу информации говорат дека Глигоров во тоа време сепак бил актер во дипломатската игра да се попушти во битката за името со Грција, а не да бара прием во ОН под уставното име. Ако се сеќавате, Васил Тупурковски беше тогаш испратен од страна на претседателот како негов специјален претставник во САД да работи на етаблирањето на Македонија. Но таму веднаш дојде до судир со лобито на Џон Битов. Во текстот на новинарот Дејвид Биндер, објавен на 4 јули 1992 г.во `Њујорк Тајмс`,напишан по повод Лисабонската декларација, по која Македонија ја изгуби битката за името, се разоткриваат причините за тоа. Новинарот пишува дека `се до неодамна, САД и најголемиот број на влади на Европската заедница ја прифатија Република Македонија не само како нова независна држава, туку исто така и со своето избрано име. Но она што се променило, според европските дипломати и официјалните лица на американската администрација, била перцепцијата дека претседателот Глигоров бил спремен да направи некаков компромис по прашањето за името. Оваа перцепција била очигледно создадена од забелешките што пролетта истата година македонските лидери им ги кажале на европски официјални лица како и од страна на американски лобисти. Имаше индикации дека ќе има флексибилност,рекол висок член на Стејт департментот. Идејата за флексибилноста на Скопје била раширена минатиот месец од страна на Роберт Мек Фарлеин, поранешен советник за национална безбедност на САД, кој бил ангажиран пред неколку месеци како лобист од страна на македонците. По посетата на Глигоров на Вашингтон во средината на мај, Мек Фарлејн рекол дека ќе има договор, односно Глигоров гледа потреба за таков дил. Мек Фарлејн бил платен за својата работа од Џон Битов...`


It seems that if we go any further we uncover more deep shit related to Bitove role in 1991-92 in cooperation with the cyclop Kiro.

[Bratot]

I suggest this thread to be STICKY

[julie]

Oh my Lord! That is absolutely disgusting he has instigated with the president the name change

[Bratot]

Now.. isn't this ironic:

" It is with great pleasure to announce that the United Macedonian Diaspora will honor Mr. John L. N. Bitove, C.M. with the UMD Lifetime Achievement Award at the upcoming Global Conference in Toronto, Canada - a truly distinguished Canadian Macedonian leader of the highest order. "

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/483/1/

And later on... some UMD activists doesn't even know what they actually give honour.

[julie]

It upsets me, is it ignorance or is it lack of knowledge, what is it that someone can honour this person who is a traitor to the Macedonian Cause, I dont understand how and why, do they know these people are detrimental to our future?
Anyone that is monied should not be playing games with our heritage.

"Makedonija mi ye vo srceto"

WTF
how can he have Macedonia in his heart when he has paid to sell Macedonia 's soul

za stramota,

[Prolet]

Bratot,Vangelovski: First of all we had that communist mentality, even if this didnt happen we still would have surrendered our name because Communism is about the rule of fear so once they say that we might not exist as a country earlier on and there was a blockade by the Greeks on the South and a War in Serbia in the North and it didnt take long for our plashkovci to give in.

The reality is that while we where too busy trying to save Yugoslavia, the Greeks were lobbying hard and spending hundreds of millions of dollars in spreading propaganda and lies about it, who could forget Denko Maleski saying how Macedonia would break away from Yugoslavia over his dead body.

Vangelovski, What difference would 800,000 make when the Greeks spent hundreds of millions lobbying in the west? If we only knew then what we know now things would have been alot different.

Bratot, Bafana Bafana is playing now, i'll get back to you later

[Vangelovski]

If we only knew then what we know now things would have been alot different.

Prolet,

Many activists did know back then what you claim to know now and advocated it publically, only to be labelled as "extremists".

[Prolet]

Very funny Vangelovski

Back then there was no internet,mobile phones, forget about satellite tv only the old Beta tapes were around so lets be realistic here. Its easy to talk now when you have all the facts but before that we had nothing, back in 92-93 everybody was calling Gligorov a savior for coming back to Skopje from Belgrade to lead our country he wasnt even democratically elected for starters.

[Vangelovski]

Very funny Vangelovski

Back then there was no internet,mobile phones, forget about satellite tv only the old Beta tapes were around so lets be realistic here. Its easy to talk now when you have all the facts but before that we had nothing, back in 92-93 everybody was calling Gligorov a savior for coming back to Skopje from Belgrade to lead our country he wasnt even democratically elected for starters.

Prolet,

That is one of your most ridiculous statements to date.

You can speak for YOURSELF and maybe your like-minded associates. Just because YOU were asleep and only now claim to have woken up to yourself, don't assume that everyone else was napping along with YOU or following Gligorov like a mindless zombie.

In fact, I think you are still being herded around like a mindless zombie, as many activists are now pointing out coming dangers, yet you refuse to believe. After these dangers become apparant beyond doubt, you will be back on here claiming YOU could not have known for whatever idiotic reason that pops into your head at the time.