Macedonian Gov't Slams University for using Kutlesh symbol on diplomas

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  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    #16
    Originally posted by makedonche View Post
    Poenix
    Very good point!........and very good opportunity to awaken the sleeping future intellects!
    ...what's the bet its another opportunity lost...?

    This now has to be driven by Macedonia's younger generations, it could be a real test of the level of subservience that plagues the country...

    Comment

    • makalek
      Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 128

      #17
      Originally posted by Pelister View Post
      Gruevski is a snake. He has an agenda for the Macedonians, but hasn't told them what it is yet. They'll only find out when its too late. The current 'crisis' has been created in part by Gruevski himself, so that he can present himself as a 'saviour'. Gruevski is meddling with our identity and spreading the popular myth that 'we have no choice'. The fact is the ICJ case is a sham - why take Greece to court for not calling us FYROM, secondly, we have not in fact been blocked from the U.N contrary to popular belief. He is a snake who is lying to the Macedonian people. He is someone who has recklessly and single handedly driven the Macedonian Republic to the brink of political extinction, just so he can maintain his illusory 'saviour' status with the people, who are being taken for a ride every step of his way.
      Pelister, What else could Gruevski do? It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia. I was born in Macedonia and am proud to be Macedonian but Gruevski and his party have no other choice than to negotiate. Ending negotiations would be political suicide for Gruevski and his party. The one thing that brings together the Macedonians and Albanians is EU and NATO membership and without that prospect, we could see more tensions and hate speech that could lead to violence.

      Unemployment is a huge problem especially for younger people and people in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership would make our country more desirable for foreign investors. The EU is the biggest economy in the world and NATO guarantees to protect its members so it could lead to investors being more confident about investing in Macedonia. Now you still have to have efficient policies and avoid what happened to Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.

      It would be wrong to say that Gruevski doesn't care about Macedonia. I believe he is a proud Macedonian but he is in a difficult situation. No other country in the world has to deal with a name dispute imposed by another country who is blackmailing us and using its member status in EU and NATO to gain an edge in the negotiations. The reforms have been made and NATO has said we are ready to be a member and the EU gave Macedonia a positive report for two consecutive years but Greece continues to veto us and we are unable to take our rightful place in those organizations.

      Just look at the Skopje 2014 project. The government decided to respect our history and make monuments of Alexander the Great, Philip II of Macedon, Goce Delcev, and many others throughout the country. He has embraced our history and has stood up to Greece despite pressure not to build those monuments. The massive Alexander the Great statue will look phenomenal once it's completed. The Phillip II Arena is going to be one of the nicest football stadiums in the region.

      As for the lawsuit against Greece, the International Court of Justice is the highest court in the United Nations and a ruling against Greece should help in trying to obtain membership in NATO and the EU. It will look really bad if Greece continues to veto us despite the court telling Greece to respect the interim agreement and allow us join those organizations if we have fulfilled the criteria. The government must stay patient and continue to build good relations with other member states and show how pathetic Greece is to the rest of the world. They live in the past and have caused a lot of damage to the EU for their irresponsible spending which led to a massive bailout. We are a respected country in NATO and even have more troops than Greece.

      We are unlucky to be surrounded by enemies such as Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia who all conspire to damage Macedonia. Do you think that Serbian Crvenkovski from SDSM is a better option than Gruevski? Gruevski is the best man for the job in a difficult situation and we must continue to support him in the fight against corruption and organized criminal. SDSM can continue to boycott parliament because they don't do anything in the first place and are an enemy to our country just like Greece. Those criminals Crvenkovski and Frckovski need to go as far away from Macedonia as possible. They are protecting the criminals at A1 who are being legitimately investigated for tax evasion. That's how Greece got bankrupt with many people not paying taxes. We must continue the uncompromising fight against these criminals and put them where they belong which is behind bars. SDSM was in government when the interim agreement was signed for us to be referred as FYROM? During SDSM rallies, they have as many Serbian flags as Macedonian flags.

      During the upcoming elections, I hope the Macedonian people send a loud message to Crvenkovski and his criminals at SDSM that they don't support him and never will. He already did enough damage for Macedonia when he was President and Prime Minister. The public is not stupid and will not buy into his manipulations once again. They have absolutely nothing to offer. They have no ideas and plans and only criticize whatever the government does with help from their fellow criminals at A1. I hope he retires for good from politics after a heavy defeat at the upcoming polls.

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        #18
        Originally posted by makalek View Post
        Pelister, What else could Gruevski do? It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia.
        Does this intellectual/moral slavery even need to be responded to? Have we not dealt with these very attitudes hundreds, if not thousands, of times on this forum, in our communities and among our people?

        These lines qouted above are the mark of intellectual/moral slavery, which lead to physcial slavery. If you want to know how a slave thinks, the above is a textbook example. If anyone actually agrees with those two sentences, then they should seriously question their intellectual and moral integrity.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Phoenix
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 4671

          #19
          makalek, how much loss of sovereignty is acceptable to you for Macedonia's entry into the EU and NATO...?

          You talk about Gruevski not having any other options, Macedonia lacking security and EU membership offering economic benefits to Macedonians...

          After two decades of independence the unemployment rate has hardly changed, nearly all of our neighbours and those further afield are NATO members...so who do we fear, who is out to invade us and why has Gruevski put all of his eggs in the EU basket.

          I'll tell you what Gruevski could do, he could start making serious efforts to eliminate corruption and providing the necessary conditions for investment in Macedonia so that Macedonia can take advantage of the multitude of trade agreements it already has in place, instead of allowing every motherfucker to steal from the State and to keep its citizens in perpetual poverty whilst promoting some silly yellow brick road agenda to the promised land...

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #20
            makalek, DPMNE has done absolutely nothing to unwind SDSM's actions. In fact, they have broadened them and instigated every last one of the agreements. I am sick of the kind of rubbish like:
            During the upcoming elections, I hope the Macedonian people send a loud message to Crvenkovski and his criminals at SDSM that they don't support him and never will. He already did enough damage for Macedonia when he was President and Prime Minister. The public is not stupid and will not buy into his manipulations once again. They have absolutely nothing to offer. They have no ideas and plans and only criticize whatever the government does with help from their fellow criminals at A1. I hope he retires for good from politics after a heavy defeat at the upcoming polls.
            Why blame SDSM for the crap that DPMNE passes off as nationalism or pursuit of sovereignty? Same rubbish different emblem. If you want a protest vote, why not protest against both?
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #21
              Originally posted by makalek
              It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia.
              Oh come on, I have heard this line about a million times by now. What relevance does this point have other than to cause division among Macedonians? Most of my family is located in Macedonia (still), consider me their mouth-piece on the internet. They do not agree with the negotiations, and they certainly don't hold the view that Gruevski was 'helpless' in the situation.
              I was born in Macedonia and am proud to be Macedonian but Gruevski and his party have no other choice than to negotiate.
              No choice to negotiate on the national and historic identity of our people? I didn't know that was such an unreasonable request that required negotiating. Makalek, do yourself a favour and catch up the discussions here regarding this topic. If you need reference to which threads, let me know.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • makalek
                Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 128

                #22
                Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                makalek, how much loss of sovereignty is acceptable to you for Macedonia's entry into the EU and NATO...?

                You talk about Gruevski not having any other options, Macedonia lacking security and EU membership offering economic benefits to Macedonians...

                After two decades of independence the unemployment rate has hardly changed, nearly all of our neighbours and those further afield are NATO members...so who do we fear, who is out to invade us and why has Gruevski put all of his eggs in the EU basket.

                I'll tell you what Gruevski could do, he could start making serious efforts to eliminate corruption and providing the necessary conditions for investment in Macedonia so that Macedonia can take advantage of the multitude of trade agreements it already has in place, instead of allowing every motherfucker to steal from the State and to keep its citizens in perpetual poverty whilst promoting some silly yellow brick road agenda to the promised land...
                No Macedonian likes the term the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but our multi-ethnic society can't coexist without the prospect of NATO and EU membership. I talk with my family in Macedonia frequently and they tell me that we face serious instability if we end negotiations which means an end to pursuing NATO and EU membership. The Albanian coalition and all political parties would boycott VMRO-DPMNE for ending negotiations and putting to an end one thing that brings together Albanians and Macedonians. There will be a huge political crisis and Albanians might revert to violence due to their frustrations. VMRO-DPMNE would lose many of its supporters and that's why again they said that EU and NATO membership remains the first priority for their government.

                The people to fear are from within which means the Albanians. They will want to create a new Kosovo because they desperately want NATO and EU membership and that would be over with Macedonia ending negotiations. People in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership will lead to a brighter future with more job prospects for younger people who are just finishing college.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #23
                  Originally posted by makalek View Post
                  No Macedonian likes the term the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but our multi-ethnic society can't coexist without the prospect of NATO and EU membership. I talk with my family in Macedonia frequently and they tell me that we face serious instability if we end negotiations which means an end to pursuing NATO and EU membership. The Albanian coalition and all political parties would boycott VMRO-DPMNE for ending negotiations and putting to an end one thing that brings together Albanians and Macedonians. There will be a huge political crisis and Albanians might revert to violence due to their frustrations. VMRO-DPMNE would lose many of its supporters and that's why again they said that EU and NATO membership remains the first priority for their government.

                  The people to fear are from within which means the Albanians. They will want to create a new Kosovo because they desperately want NATO and EU membership and that would be over with Macedonia ending negotiations. People in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership will lead to a brighter future with more job prospects for younger people who are just finishing college.
                  Do you wear a ventilator T-shirt with a big S O R R Y written underneath it?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #24
                    Originally posted by makalek View Post
                    Pelister, What else could Gruevski do? It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia. I was born in Macedonia and am proud to be Macedonian but Gruevski and his party have no other choice than to negotiate. Ending negotiations would be political suicide for Gruevski and his party. The one thing that brings together the Macedonians and Albanians is EU and NATO membership and without that prospect, we could see more tensions and hate speech that could lead to violence.

                    Unemployment is a huge problem especially for younger people and people in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership would make our country more desirable for foreign investors. The EU is the biggest economy in the world and NATO guarantees to protect its members so it could lead to investors being more confident about investing in Macedonia. Now you still have to have efficient policies and avoid what happened to Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.

                    It would be wrong to say that Gruevski doesn't care about Macedonia. I believe he is a proud Macedonian but he is in a difficult situation. No other country in the world has to deal with a name dispute imposed by another country who is blackmailing us and using its member status in EU and NATO to gain an edge in the negotiations. The reforms have been made and NATO has said we are ready to be a member and the EU gave Macedonia a positive report for two consecutive years but Greece continues to veto us and we are unable to take our rightful place in those organizations.

                    Just look at the Skopje 2014 project. The government decided to respect our history and make monuments of Alexander the Great, Philip II of Macedon, Goce Delcev, and many others throughout the country. He has embraced our history and has stood up to Greece despite pressure not to build those monuments. The massive Alexander the Great statue will look phenomenal once it's completed. The Phillip II Arena is going to be one of the nicest football stadiums in the region.

                    As for the lawsuit against Greece, the International Court of Justice is the highest court in the United Nations and a ruling against Greece should help in trying to obtain membership in NATO and the EU. It will look really bad if Greece continues to veto us despite the court telling Greece to respect the interim agreement and allow us join those organizations if we have fulfilled the criteria. The government must stay patient and continue to build good relations with other member states and show how pathetic Greece is to the rest of the world. They live in the past and have caused a lot of damage to the EU for their irresponsible spending which led to a massive bailout. We are a respected country in NATO and even have more troops than Greece.

                    We are unlucky to be surrounded by enemies such as Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia who all conspire to damage Macedonia. Do you think that Serbian Crvenkovski from SDSM is a better option than Gruevski? Gruevski is the best man for the job in a difficult situation and we must continue to support him in the fight against corruption and organized criminal. SDSM can continue to boycott parliament because they don't do anything in the first place and are an enemy to our country just like Greece. Those criminals Crvenkovski and Frckovski need to go as far away from Macedonia as possible. They are protecting the criminals at A1 who are being legitimately investigated for tax evasion. That's how Greece got bankrupt with many people not paying taxes. We must continue the uncompromising fight against these criminals and put them where they belong which is behind bars. SDSM was in government when the interim agreement was signed for us to be referred as FYROM? During SDSM rallies, they have as many Serbian flags as Macedonian flags.

                    During the upcoming elections, I hope the Macedonian people send a loud message to Crvenkovski and his criminals at SDSM that they don't support him and never will. He already did enough damage for Macedonia when he was President and Prime Minister. The public is not stupid and will not buy into his manipulations once again. They have absolutely nothing to offer. They have no ideas and plans and only criticize whatever the government does with help from their fellow criminals at A1. I hope he retires for good from politics after a heavy defeat at the upcoming polls.
                    Wow, is this your justification for 'negotiating'? The HOPE that 'Greece will look bad'? Unemployment? Corruption? Is that it? Why on earth have you elevated the E.U and NATO to some kind of bullshit 'saviour' status? The only thing that Macedonia needs to be saved from right now is Gruevski and the negotiations, because while those two things remain our identity hangs by a thread, and we remain on the brink of political extinction. Turkey isn't a member of the E.U, and yet is has an economy and administration to rival any in the E.U> How is that possible? The problem is that we have too many political and economic whores waiting for handouts.

                    A couple points.

                    Ending the negotiations will not be political suicide for Gruevski, or for Macedonia. In fact it would make Gruevski even more popular, if that were possible with his own people, and it would save us from the brink of political extinction. It would save us, not end us.

                    Secondly, there is nothing wrong with demanding our rights, or even naming Greece as a warmonger, who wants to exterminate us because that is their aim.

                    Thirdly, we are not actually blocked from the United Nations. We were never formally blocked from the U.N because we never formally asked to be admitted by our name. Think about that. When did this whole 'FYROM' thing MOVE from sham negotiations to enter the United Nations TO sham negotiations to enter the E.U and NATO? I can tell you right now it was Gruevski who single handedly achieved that. The longer the negotiations go on, you can expect that more and more countries are going to hold the Macedonian people (not Gruevski, because he has been decieving the world that he speak on behalf of them regarding this name issue), the Macedonian people to account. Gruevski is deliberately and intentionall raising the stakes, and putting pressure on the country, to force the people into a name change! That is precisely what he is up to. Its a disaster, and Gruevski is doing us untold damage by continuing with this charade.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #25
                      Its actually A1 who is saying that we risk EU entry because of the Kutlesh on the Diplomas, they are clearly stating that apparently we are "Jeopardizing" our EU entry and provoking Greece and they also use Antonio Miloshoski's son waving a flag with the Sonce from Kutlesh at a basketball match.

                      Makalek, The easiest way to control the people in our country is by fear and this is the worst thing that can happen to us if we fall in this trap. Its very tough all over Europe, we saw major riots in London just recently but we'll soldier on and get through this. We have to stand our ground and not move an inch to these ridiculous Greek demands, life is not only hard in Macedonia its hard everywhere.

                      I think its time we stop looking at our country as a small,poor,weak,helpless nation. Nobody is going to give us any free rides we have to work hard to keep our name and identity at all costs because the Greeks have nothing to loose while we have everything to loose.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • DirtyCodingHabitz
                        Member
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 835

                        #26
                        People in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership will lead to a brighter future with more job prospects for younger people who are just finishing college.
                        1. Your family are complete sellouts 2. They don't understand how politics work 3. Your family are the time of cowards that will end Macedonia by being scared of Albanians and greeks 4. Look at the European Union countries, they are jobless, corrupt, and they are trillions in debt.

                        Not trying to insult you or your family, but you gotta wake up and look at the facts.

                        Comment

                        • Phoenix
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 4671

                          #27
                          Originally posted by makalek View Post
                          No Macedonian likes the term the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but our multi-ethnic society can't coexist without the prospect of NATO and EU membership. I talk with my family in Macedonia frequently and they tell me that we face serious instability if we end negotiations which means an end to pursuing NATO and EU membership. The Albanian coalition and all political parties would boycott VMRO-DPMNE for ending negotiations and putting to an end one thing that brings together Albanians and Macedonians. There will be a huge political crisis and Albanians might revert to violence due to their frustrations. VMRO-DPMNE would lose many of its supporters and that's why again they said that EU and NATO membership remains the first priority for their government.

                          The people to fear are from within which means the Albanians. They will want to create a new Kosovo because they desperately want NATO and EU membership and that would be over with Macedonia ending negotiations. People in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership will lead to a brighter future with more job prospects for younger people who are just finishing college.
                          makalek, are you a Macedonian or a shiptar...?

                          I have never heard a bigger pile of bullshit for a long time.
                          The shiptari aren't going anywhere without the Macedonians and here you are pandering to arguably less than 20% of the population of Macedonia and recklessly spreading paranioa.

                          Its not enough that we are subservient to the USA/NATO/EU, then we have a secondary subservience to our corrupt leadership and you're adding a 3rd level of subservience to the shiptar minority.

                          Where the fuck do you think Kosovo is heading to, its certainly not the EU or NATO and you're trying to give me some bullshit story that we should fear the shiptari breaking away from Macedonia because they have a better chance of getting into these organizations on their own...give me a fuckin' break.

                          Comment

                          • DirtyCodingHabitz
                            Member
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 835

                            #28
                            No Macedonian likes the term the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but our multi-ethnic society can't coexist without the prospect of NATO and EU membership.
                            Watch this first, and then you can talk more bullshit.

                            YouTube - Albanians in Macedonia keen to be part of a bigger country

                            And by watching this, it completely shows that you are a dirty shiptar and not a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • julie
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 3869

                              #29
                              MAKALEK Gruevski has achieved the unemployment, through lack of building up infrastructure and encouraging private investment opportunities for business.
                              Am sick and tired of your ilk blaming the diaspora, either shut up and put up, get a job, no matter how "menial" and get off your sorry asses and effect change. You portray VMRO as the lesser of 2 evils, however, SDMS got the ball rolling and VMRO are perpetuating it. Gruevski is taking Greece to court for not calling us FYROM for fuck sake.
                              This fear mongering you are spreading is running a bit thin, you make it sound like none of us have families there, and hearing my brother talk about the hatred promoted and the divisiveness from RoM toward the diaspora, with Gruevski wiping out our kutlesh sonce on the statues, by the so called scary Albanians (funny how wherever he went, they were very peaceful) , its people like yourself that are detrimental to the continuance of our nation
                              Blame the diaspora again for working their effing asses off to hear the lazy ass lickers over there , they are too good for menial work, work is work. Unemployment being high is due to governmental policy, the EU and NATO will perpetuate financial crises, and the whole bunch of you am sick and tired of listening to your ventilator loving shiptar views.
                              Do something or shut up, blame the diaspora again for bending over and taking it up the rear end by a brainwashing scumbag political game playing society that is hell bent and selling themselves to gain massive debt , and be held by the proverbial balls for the EU, tell your god gruevski to get his act together, get a nationalistic party together , that will encourage business and investment, and watch employment happen, that is , if you can prise yourselves away from the parisienne fashion and latest electrical gadgets, you plastic bunch of misfits
                              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                              Comment

                              • makedonin
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 1668

                                #30
                                Донски кој доби професура по историја на Штипскиот универзитет е еден од иницијаторите за ваквиот дизајн на дипломата, алал да му е.

                                Напред Штипјани, а груевски колку сака нека се оградува, само повеке си го покажува лицето.
                                To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                                Comment

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