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Old 01-21-2018, 07:47 PM   #1
Tomche Makedonche
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Default Prof. Kenneth W. Harl - The Ethnicity of the Ancient Macedonians

Came across this the other day, thought i’d put it up should anyone wish to discuss.

Prof. Kenneth W. Harl - The Ethnicity of the Ancient Macedonians

https://youtu.be/lsqyzECK7xs
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:16 PM   #2
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Informative.
Definitely not on the Greek payroll (yet).
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:40 AM   #3
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I expect a Greek Fatwa to be issued on Kenneth any day now.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
Came across this the other day, thought i’d put it up should anyone wish to discuss.
I watched the whole thing and, to be perfectly honest Tomche, I got the feeling that Kenneth was holding back. I'm sure he's well aware of Greek fanaticism and the peril that any historian puts himself in for daring to shatter the Greek myths on Macedonia. Even hinting at any non-Greekness of the Ancient Macedonians would cause an uproar in Greece so he has chosen to tread lightly and sugar-coated it in my opinion. Good on him though. It's about time Greeks started hearing this stuff more and more. The only claim they had on Macedonia was a supposed link to history (which was never a legitimate reason for the displacement and assimilation of existing peoples anyway). If that starts disappearing then they have no legs to stand on. They are left with only one card up their sleeve which, unfortunately for us, happens to be the trump card, the Turkish refugees from 1922 - Today's Greek Macedonians.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:01 AM   #5
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Not ready to write an essay about this speech, but I'll start with the first 2 minutes and the map, which is wrong and is actually a map of modern Greece.

Pella was a PORT (believe it or not), the size of Thermaic Gulf was double in antiquity, the area you can see between the sea and Pella (in his maps) was first... sea, later a mix of swamp, lakes and wide rivers through which boats would arrive at the PORT of Pella.

Pella was a typical Greek Mediterranean port with an extreme rate of trade (which is exhibited today in the Museum of Pella) thus the first argument (he uses it at the very beginning of his speech) that Macedonians were not Mediterranean because they were inland mountain people goes to the swamp… of Pella.

Dion was also a port which is also unbelievable if you visit it and see how far from the sea it is today. It also feels seemingly high in the feet of Olympus but the altitude is only 30m.

This is a better map I could find on-line.


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Old 01-25-2018, 10:09 PM   #6
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Old 01-30-2018, 07:42 PM   #7
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Below is from Karl Otfried Müller - 1839 - The History and Antiquities of the Doric Race.

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ADJ...0latin&f=false

Attaching only a few pages.





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Old 02-09-2018, 11:40 PM   #8
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The pictures below come from the book Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity, by Jonathan M. Hall.

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books/about/...AJ&redir_esc=y



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Old 02-10-2018, 11:48 PM   #9
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
Not ready to write an essay about this speech, but I'll start with the first 2 minutes and the map, which is wrong and is actually a map of modern Greece.

Pella was a PORT (believe it or not), the size of Thermaic Gulf was double in antiquity, the area you can see between the sea and Pella (in his maps) was first... sea, later a mix of swamp, lakes and wide rivers through which boats would arrive at the PORT of Pella.

Pella was a typical Greek Mediterranean port with an extreme rate of trade (which is exhibited today in the Museum of Pella) thus the first argument (he uses it at the very beginning of his speech) that Macedonians were not Mediterranean because they were inland mountain people goes to the swamp… of Pella.

Dion was also a port which is also unbelievable if you visit it and see how far from the sea it is today. It also feels seemingly high in the feet of Olympus but the altitude is only 30m.

This is a better map I could find on-line.
This is a better depiction of the port of Pella.

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