Serbian Geography Textbook - 1871: "Macedonians are indigenous"

[Carlin]

Serbian Textbook:
- Macedonians are the oldest Slavs in the region, and perhaps even in Europe.
- Bulgarians and Serbs are newcomers in the Balkans, compared to the indigenous Macedonians.


Translation of the title page: Geography for High Schools, prepared by Dragasevic. Reviewed and approved by the school commission -- Belgrade, 1871


Page 114 relevant translation: Natives in these lands, were in ancient times some Slavs, whose names we do not know ... these are modern Macedonians.


Page 127:
Slavs encompass: Serbs, Croatians, Macedonians, Bulgarians and Russians.
There are 3620000 Serbs, 500000 Croatians, 1300000 Macedonians, etc...

Further down on page 127, the beginning of the highlighted part: Macedonians are the oldest Slavs in these Illyrian lands, perhaps even in Europe...


Page 128: Bulgarians are newcomers to this peninsula (when compared to the native/indigenous Macedonians) as are the Serbs...

[Daskalot]

Thank you Carlin this is very interesting. We need to translate the pages into English.
Bravo!

[Pavle Pijanica]

Thank you Carlin this is very interesting. We need to translate the pages into English.
Bravo!

Daskalot you can publish that for the world to see and they still won't believe us...You can put 10,000 Macedonians in front of the United Nations building and one Greek and they will still deny the very existence of our people...and on top of that the Grujo and his croonies will still say no we're not Macedonians we're FYR Macedonians because we don't want to upset the Greek that's denying us...

Seriously when are the people of Macedonia going to stop taking shit???

[Momce Makedonce]

But isnt this portraying us to be just Slavs when that is not the case?

Or do we just look past that and focus on the other concept behind this evidence which is the fact that the author says the Macedonians are indigenous to the Balkans?

[Carlin]

I have provided a quick translation of the relevant parts, in my original post above.

[Daskalot]

Thank you Carlin for taking the time to edit your post.

[Sovius]

But isnt this portraying us to be just Slavs when that is not the case?

Or do we just look past that and focus on the other concept behind this evidence which is the fact that the author says the Macedonians are indigenous to the Balkans?

During this period in time, it was popular for Serbian nationalists, as well as, a bit irrational, I might add, to regard themselves as having descended from the Sarmatians to the North in Sorabia (Sorbs) due to the Sarmatian military campaigns in that region during the declining years of the Eastern Roman Empire, despite the fact that Serbians were referred to continuously as Triballians thoughout the Roman occupation of Southeastern Europe. Triballians were a Thracian people. It seems probable that a number of Sarmatians may have overstayed the invasions and that there were cultural exchanges between Sarmatia and Triballia as greater economic activity resumed across the Danube, but not the biological displacement of an entire nation of people or even a significant portion of their population. Its more likely, given genetic and linguistic evidence, that the Triballians colonized what would become known as Sorabia, rather than the other way around.

'Sloveni' is a relational term that equates itself to an imagined or real kinship by way of linguistic similarity between at least two different populations, designating people as speakers of "the common tongue". Its not an authentic ethno-linguistic term in the languages that its forms are used in. Slav is a proper noun based on Sklabenoi, a Roman Period ethnic slur for populations who regarded themselves as 'sloveni', such as the Getae (Goths), Vindelicians (Vandals) and Sarmatians, who appear to have been comprised of both Getian (Dacian) and Vindelician (Vandalic, Wendish) populations. Mistranslations of historical texts based on this logical and grammatical disconnect have been very common since the advent of Pan-Germanism and Pan-Slavism and, unfortunately, human convention keeps perpetuating this false notion in contemporary works of scholarship.

"Macedonians are the oldest of the kindred peoples in the region and, perhaps, even in Europe."

This translation is based on inter-linguistic reciprocity and carries a meaning that remains aligned with the fact that it was common knowledge during the Renaissance Period that the Macedonians were regarded as a kindred people to the Sarmatians and the Triballians, a notion that some during the not so distant past appeared to have remembered, as well, as this passage seems to indicate.

[Soldier of Macedon]

In this case the term 'Slavs' can only have linguistic connotations, because it refers to indigenous Macedonians on the one hand and newcomer Serbs and Bulgars on the other.

By the way, Sovius, nice to see you're still around mate.

[George S.]

a lot of the slav component bought up is to smear us & tarnish us with the same brush.[If they say we are Slavic then we are really Macedonian but by whose decision by those who don't respect us & don't like us & prefer we don't exist.But we do exist as Macedonians,we allways have.There is a lot of written evidence of our Macedonian heritage.Look at threads by TM who has shown that we are ...Macedonian,We are not slav Macedonian.WE are smeared & our name is besmirched by those who don't regard us as alive.Yes Virginia Macedonians do exist despite the stupid propaganda to the otherwise.

[Sovius]

In this case the term 'Slavs' can only have linguistic connotations, because it refers to indigenous Macedonians on the one hand and newcomer Serbs and Bulgars on the other.

By the way, Sovius, nice to see you're still around mate.

Hey SoM,
Its good to get away from the grindstone for a bit. Some excellent new material to ponder! As always, much appreciated. Hopefully, more and more folks in Macedonia are getting access to these documents.


George, a classic line!

[George S.]

MM much appreciated,Thanks to SOM for bringing thingslike these up.The material should be archived for reference purposes.I just reminded people of the propaganda & modus operandi of the serbs.Not much different to our other neighbour assimilation attempts of the Macedonian population.

[Momce Makedonce]

Thanks for clearing that up guys.

[Chakalarov]

So based on Sovius' theory (which I tend to agree with) can we argue that Sloveni as a relational term exited before the 6th century?

[Soldier of Macedon]

So based on Sovius' theory (which I tend to agree with) can we argue that Sloveni as a relational term exited before the 6th century?

I think the conditions for such a relational term to develop were around perhaps a century or so earlier than it is first mentioned in written records, not much earlier than that.

[Chakalarov]

I think the conditions for such a relational term to develop were around perhaps a century or so earlier than it is first mentioned in written records, not much earlier than that.

I agree that it did exist before the 6th century, but I am not sure as to how far back. I'm trying to figure out how the Veneti fall into all this, since most of the sources I have read indicate they had a Slavic roots. I've also read that Veneti derives from "Sloveneti" or "Sloventi" (the Greeks and Romans could not start words with -Slo). However, these are proposed roots, and I don't know how much credibility to give them. There is a seemingly logical connection between the words the two words, but that would push back the use of "Sloveni" or some variant of it much further back in history and I haven't found much evidence to indicate Paleo-Balkans referred to each other by the closeness of their languages as "Sloveni". The only "evidence" I have is an inscription from a Slovenian website that promotes the Veneti theory. Here is the inscription in question:

http://s100.photobucket.com/user/MarioMacedon/media/slovonici_zps98446311.jpg.html

I suppose even if Veneti does not derive Sloven(e)ti, where does it come from? Is it just an term to denote a Slavic-speaking group, while Sloveni developed independently from it to describe ALL Slavic-speaking groups?