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Old 07-10-2013, 08:24 PM   #1
Dejan
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Default The Saxons used call themselves Macedonians



The History of the Works of the Learned - Published in the year of 1699
The Saxons and Frisians were two allied tribes, settled in Northern Europe: Saxony, Frisia and Britain. They are now considered to have been
Old Germanic tribes.
But…According to the authors of this book, before they settled among the other Germanic peoples in Europe, they used to call themselves Macedonians. The author says that they came from India to Europe as remains of the Macedonian army of Alexander the Great.
Furthermore, he connects the name ‘Frisians’ to ‘Phryges’, also known as Bryges - an ancient Balkan tribe, ethnically close to the Macedonians.

Original article can be found here

Link to the book can be found here

I'm surprised TM hasn't posted this one yet
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #2
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That is interesting.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:15 AM   #3
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Interesting, indeed !
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:33 AM   #4
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i didn't know that about the saxons.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejan View Post


The History of the Works of the Learned - Published in the year of 1699
The Saxons and Frisians were two allied tribes, settled in Northern Europe: Saxony, Frisia and Britain. They are now considered to have been
Old Germanic tribes.
But…According to the authors of this book, before they settled among the other Germanic peoples in Europe, they used to call themselves Macedonians. The author says that they came from India to Europe as remains of the Macedonian army of Alexander the Great.
Furthermore, he connects the name ‘Frisians’ to ‘Phryges’, also known as Bryges - an ancient Balkan tribe, ethnically close to the Macedonians.

Original article can be found here

Link to the book can be found here

I'm surprised TM hasn't posted this one yet
Can't find them all the time Dejan , interesting though.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:52 AM   #6
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Very very interesting, we need to dig into this further me thinks
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:04 PM   #7
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Settlements of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes in Britain in about 600.




Last edited by Carlin15; 01-20-2019 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
The History of the Works of the Learned - Published in the year of 1699
The Saxons and Frisians were two allied tribes, settled in Northern Europe: Saxony, Frisia and Britain. They are now considered to have been
Old Germanic tribes.
But…According to the authors of this book, before they settled among the other Germanic peoples in Europe, they used to call themselves Macedonians. The author says that they came from India to Europe as remains of the Macedonian army of Alexander the Great.
Furthermore, he connects the name ‘Frisians’ to ‘Phryges’, also known as Bryges - an ancient Balkan tribe, ethnically close to the Macedonians.
This appears to be very similar to the ancient origin/foundation tales & myths:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=3gG...ievery&f=false

In the link/book above, we see how even the Persians were hellenized (anyone was fair game, not to mention the Macedonians). The Greek fashioners of legends and myths extended their tentacles as far as Armenia.

It's a fictitious narrative nothing more.

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English DNA 'one-third' Anglo-Saxon

By Paul Rincon
Science editor, BBC News website

URL:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35344663

The present-day English owe about a third of their ancestry to the Anglo-Saxons, according to a new study.

Scientists sequenced genomes from 10 skeletons unearthed in eastern England and dating from the Iron Age through to the Anglo-Saxon period.

Many of the Anglo-Saxon samples appeared closer to modern Dutch and Danish people than the Iron Age Britons did.

The results appear in Nature Communications journal.

According to historical accounts and archaeology, the Anglo-Saxons migrated to Britain from continental Europe from the 5th Century AD. They brought with them a new culture, social structure and language.

Genetic studies have tackled the question of Anglo-Saxon ancestry before, but sometimes gave conflicting results.

Confounding factors included the close genetic affinities of people in North-West Europe and the scarcity of ancient DNA from indigenous Britons and the Germanic-speaking migrants.

Dr Stephan Schiffels of the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Germany sequenced genomes of human remains from Hinxton, Saffron Walden, Linton and Oakington - all of which are near Cambridge.

The burials fall into three different age categories: Iron Age, early Anglo-Saxon and Middle Anglo-Saxon.

Contrary to narratives suggesting large-scale displacement of the Britons by Anglo-Saxon invaders, the researchers found evidence of intermarriage in the earliest phase of settlement.

In order to disentangle the Anglo-Saxon signal from the indigenous British genetic background, the researchers looked at many rare mutations across the whole genome.

"We found that these rare mutations were the key to studying historical samples. We could compare our ancient samples with modern samples in an improved way," Dr Schiffels told BBC News.

"We could look at these in a very large sample of modern Europeans. For example, we studied low frequency mutations that must have occurred in the ancestors of the Dutch over the last few thousand years.

"We found that these mutations were shared with the Anglo-Saxon immigrants at a factor of two more than they are with the indigenous Celtic people. These rare mutations are found only with whole genome sequencing."

From there, the scientists could track the contribution made by those Anglo-Saxon migrants to modern British populations.

They found that on average 25%-40% of the ancestry of modern Britons is attributable to the Anglo-Saxons. But the fraction of Saxon ancestry is greater in eastern England, closest to where the migrants settled.

Even traditionally Celtic populations, such as the Welsh and Scottish show some Anglo-Saxon-like ancestry - even though it is typically lower than that in eastern England. But Dr Schiffels points out that it is difficult to tell when this genetic component arrived there until DNA from Iron Age remains in those regions is analysed.

In another study, also published in Nature Communications, Prof Dan Bradley from Trinity College Dublin and colleagues analysed the genomes of nine individuals from Roman-era York.

They found that six of the individuals - presumably indigenous Britons - were similar to the modern Welsh, but different from populations living in Yorkshire today.

However, one of the individuals had genetic affinities with people from North Africa and the Middle East, providing evidence of long-scale migration in Roman times.

The burials at Driffield Terrace, from which the genetic data was drawn, fit the profile of Roman gladiators.

The majority were male, under 45 years old and had been decapitated. They were also slightly taller than the average for Roman Britain, with most showing signs of trauma to their bones.

However, Prof Bradley and his colleagues point out that the remains might also be compatible with Roman legionaries.

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Old 02-26-2019, 01:28 PM   #9
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In medieval Britain, if you wanted to get ahead, you had to speak French

URL:
https://theconversation.com/in-medie...k-french-73164

The study of modern languages in British secondary schools is in steep decline. The number of students taking French and German GCSE has more than halved in the last 16 years. But as the UK prepares to forge new relationships with the wider world, and with a question mark over the status of English as an official EU language, it may be that many more Britons will need to brush up on their language skills – not unlike their medieval ancestors.

In the Middle Ages, a variety of vernacular languages were spoken by inhabitants of the British Isles, from Cornish to English to Norn – an extinct North Germanic language. The literati of the time learned to speak and write Latin.

But another high prestige language was also used in medieval Britain. After the Norman Conquest, French became a major language of administration, education, literature and law in England (and, to some extent, elsewhere in Britain). To get ahead in life post-1066, it was pretty important to “parler français”.

French would have been the mother tongue for several generations of the Anglo Norman aristocracy. But many more Britons must have learned French as a second language. Medieval biographies of saints, such as the 12th-century recluse Wulfric of Haselbury, tell of miracle workers who transformed monoglot Englishmen into fluent francophones.

In reality, many probably acquired French at “song” school, where young boys were taught reading and singing before moving on to study Latin at “grammar” school.

Slipping standards

But, by the late 14th century, standards of French in Britain were slipping – at least in some quarters. Perhaps not such a problem at home, where English had already assumed some of the roles previously performed by French. But if British merchants wanted to export wool, or import bottles of Bordeaux, knowledge of French was still a must.

It’s around this time that the “Manieres de langage” – or “Manners of Speaking” – began to appear. These model conversations, the earliest used to teach French to English speakers, were used by business teachers who taught all the necessary skills for performing basic clerical work.

Colourful language

As well as teaching learners how to ask for directions and find lodgings in France, the “Manieres” feature rather more colourful language than you’d find in today’s textbooks.

Some of the dialogues are made up entirely of insults and chat-up lines. Learners could quickly progress from “Mademoiselle, do I know you?” to “You’re quite sure you don’t have another boyfriend?”. And if things didn’t quite go to plan, an expression such as: “Va te en a ta putaigne … quar vous estez bien cuillez ensemble” (That’s it, run along to your whore! You’re made for each other!) may have proved useful.

The “Manieres” also taught learners about life across the Channel. In one dialogue a Parisian chap mentions to an Englishman that he’s been to Orléans. The Englishman is amazed: “But that’s near the edge of the world!” he exclaims. “It’s actually in the middle of France,” replies the Parisian, “and there’s a great law school there”. Once again, the Englishman is taken aback. He’s heard it’s where the devil teaches his disciples black magic. The Parisian is exasperated until the Englishman offers to buy him a drink.

Lessons from the past

The French spoken in Britain was mocked from at least the 12th-century, even by the British themselves. In the “Canterbury Tales”, for instance, Chaucer teases his Prioress for speaking the French of “Stratford-at-Bow” (rather than proper Parisian).

Like many a language learner in Britain today, the Englishman in the “Manieres” lacks confidence in his linguistic abilities and worries about how he is ever going to speak like a native.

But the “Manieres” also suggest there was less separating the French of Britain from “proper Parisian” than we might think. When the Englishman lets slip he’s never actually been to France, it’s the Parisian’s turn to be amazed. How could anyone learn such good French in England?

These language learning resources date from a time when the association between linguistic identity and nationality was looser than it often is today. French doesn’t just belong to the French, according to the “Manieres” – learners can take pride in it too.

In Oxford, business school French proved so popular its success seemed to rattle the dons. In 1432 a University statute banned French teaching during lecturing hours to stop students skiving Latin.

It’s hard to imagine needing to curb enthusiasm for learning a foreign language in Brexit Britain. But perhaps there are lessons in the “Manieres” that could help promote language learning in the 21st-century classroom.
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