Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-24-2011, 05:51 PM   #11
Onur
Senior Member
 
Onur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Izmir, Turkiye
Posts: 2,389
Onur is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I have often questioned what makes everyone assume all influences came from the Ottomans and wonder what may well have gone the other direction even before the Ottoman invasions.
Who says that?

These places came to my mind as soon as i read your msg;
Quote:
Macarköy (Hungarian: Feketeforrás or Magyarfalu (Madzsarköj)) is a Hungarian village in Turkey, at the Aegean shore. This village was established 420 years ago. The villagers were settled in the village when part of the Kingdom of Hungary was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macark%C3%B6y
Quote:
Polonezköy or Adampol is a small village at the Asian side of Istanbul, about 30 kilometers away from the historic city center, within the boundaries of the Beykoz district. It was founded in 1842 by Polish settlers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonezk%C3%B6y
Quote:
Arnavutköy (meaning "Albanian village" in Turkish) is a historic neighborhood in Istanbul, Turkey, famous for its wooden Ottoman mansions and fish restaurants as well as the prestigious Robert College campus with its centennial buildings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnavutk%C3%B6y
Quote:
Belgrad Forest is a mixed deciduous forest lying 15 kilometers north-west of Istanbul, Turkey. Geographically, the forest is located at the easternmost point of the Thracian Peninsula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgrad_Forest
There are many more...

Macarköy has been founded in 16th century when 100s of Hungarian families has migrated to Anatolia [reason unknown].

Polonezköy has been founded when Austro-Hapsburg empire annexed Poland. All their revolutionaries who resisted German occupation seek refuge to Ottoman empire [sole enemy of Hapsburgs] because otherwise they were going to be executed by the Germans.

Arnavutköy has been founded in 16th century by the migration of christian Albanians from Morea to Istanbul. By the 19th century, these christian Albanians self-identified themselves as Greeks but they were obviously Albanians when they first gone there otherwise Turks wouldn't call the village as Arnavut-köy in 16th century.

Belgrad forest is named after a village, created when ~100 Serbian families from Belgrade moved in to Istanbul in 16th century [reason unknown]


Hungarians in Macarköy and Serbians in Belgrad village has lost their identities and disappeared among Turks after some time. Albanians in Arnavutköy became Greeks. Some of the Poles in Polonezköy lost their identity but the rest of the majority still speaks Polish as mothertongue and still lives in half Turkish half Polish way today, in the countryside nearby Istanbul

Click here;
http://www.polonezkoy.com/index_eng.asp

Last edited by Onur; 10-24-2011 at 06:06 PM.
Onur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 08:15 PM   #12
George S.
Senior Member
 
George S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,121
George S. is on a distinguished road
Default

Its anoyher theory that we are descended from thr brigians.THere are sinilarities of words etc.but who knows for sure.?They were there at one time & then puff dissapeared where did they go.?
George S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 09:30 PM   #13
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,922
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The story is that the Brygians (or at least a significant portion of them) migrated to Asia Minor, where they became known as Phrygians. The importance of the name alteration is that while they were still living in the Balkans their name was pronounced with a B rather than PH, which means they followed the same phonological development in this respect with other Paleo-Balkan peoples like Thracians, Illyrians, Macedonians, etc. A comparison would be the name Phillip, which in Macedonian would have been pronounced as Billip.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 05:43 PM   #14
Po-drum
Junior Member
 
Po-drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
Po-drum is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
The story is that the Brygians (or at least a significant portion of them) migrated to Asia Minor, where they became known as Phrygians. The importance of the name alteration is that while they were still living in the Balkans their name was pronounced with a B rather than PH, which means they followed the same phonological development in this respect with other Paleo-Balkan peoples like Thracians, Illyrians, Macedonians, etc. A comparison would be the name Phillip, which in Macedonian would have been pronounced as Billip.
Also φυγα : bega .
__________________
Macedonia - my shoulders from ruins and skies
Po-drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 03:36 PM   #15
Voltron
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
Voltron is on a distinguished road
Default

There are a lot of similarities between Phrygian and Greek as well.
It is said that Greek is the closing living relative to Phrygian we have today.

http://www.palaeolexicon.com/default...&Language_ID=2
Voltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2011, 10:29 PM   #16
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,922
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Greek has no close living relates because it is a mixture of Indo-European and non Indo-European languages. And if you look at some important lexical examples of Phrygian it has the same sound changes as Paleo-Balkan and Balto-Slavic languages. Words for a god, city, earth and water all have cognates to Paleo-Balkan/Balto-Slavic which are much closer than they are to Greek. Later, when Phrygians moved to Asia Minor their language influenced by Greek. That is why the (assumed) deciphered Phrygian inscriptions may be similar to Greek in some respects, but without having researched them properly, I can't say for certain.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 02:16 AM   #17
George S.
Senior Member
 
George S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,121
George S. is on a distinguished road
Default

I found this very interesting about Phrygian it put's it in perspective:

Cautions / Clarifications and FAQ about Phrygian
During the 19th and 20th century, Phrygian was studied extensively by many scholars in order to reach the level of understanding we have today. The scarce nature of the material, left Phrygian exposed to anarchical research in forms of interpretations. Phrygian texts are generally understood by proximity, therefore one needs to be conservative with the interpretation of them. Based on what we've seen so far online and what people have been searching on Phrygian to reach Palaeolexicon, a list of FAQ has been compiled below:
Is Phrygian a palaeo-Balkan language?

Yes it is. Even though it is attested only in Anatolia, it does not have any affinity with languages such as Hittite, Luwian, Lydian, Lycian etc. Of course, personal names and certain characteristics found in the IE Anatolian languages were passed to Phrygian.

Is Phrygian a satem language?

No it is not. See the classification section for details over the centum vs satem debate.

Is Phrygian a Hellenic / Greek language/dialect?

No it is not. Question yourself, is 'Is Portuguese Spanish'? The answer is the same, but both are Latin languages. In the case of Greek and Phrygian, we have two languages deriving from a common Proto-Indo-European dialect/language that some call 'Greco-Phrygian'. In this same group, it is believed that proto-Armenian belonged as well.

Is Phrygian a Baltic or Slavic language?

Not even close. Several words are close to the Baltic and Slavic equivalents, but that is a phenomenon seen between all IE languages. No ' Phrygian' scholar has ever claimed a relationship between Phrygian and Balto-Slavic languages.

Is Phrygian the oldest language ever?

Of course not. The experiment of Psameticus is for sure not an example to follow in linguistics. If Proto-Indo-European (that Phrygian derived from) started to split in dialects because of migrations around 4000 B.C then automatically Phrygian cannot be the oldest language ever.
George S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 08:18 PM   #18
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,922
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I've seen that article, parts of it are mere speculation and deliberate misinterpretation to distance the relationship of Phrygian as a Paleo-Balkan language to Balto-Slavic.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:55 AM   #19
Po-drum
Junior Member
 
Po-drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
Po-drum is on a distinguished road
Default

The name of Rynchines may be connected with the name of the river Rendina which flows through Lagadin and Beshlik (Bolbe) lakes and goes in the Orphano gulf.
Another one is that their name is possibly derived by slavic word "ruchei" (with included nasal vowel) - stream (Strymonian's???), brook, creek..
__________________
Macedonia - my shoulders from ruins and skies
Po-drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 07:37 PM   #20
Carlin
Member
 
Carlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 654
Carlin is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi to all, I think Velegezites (Βελεγεζίται) and Berzites (Βερζηται) were of Slavic origin, or at the very least, 100% Slavic-speaking.

Is there any evidence that they were of Turkic/Avar origin? Are there any primary sources or is it mere speculation and guess-work?
Carlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump