18th-19th century 'greek' intellectuals saw Anc. Maks as conquerors

[George S.]

Voltron your just avoiding the questions & you are not admitting to anything.

[TrueMacedonian]

What were the ancient boundaries of Ancient Hellas according to Capo D'Istria???




More to come.......

[Droog]

The "true" borders of states change according to their interests and power, so don't be surprised by such a fact and it shouldn't even be treated in such a context. That kind of a context could be used only if we had a source about what the people of the Greek Kingdom considered as the true borders of their state. Now that would be very interesting.

[TrueMacedonian]

The "true" borders of states change according to their interests and power, so don't be surprised by such a fact and it shouldn't even be treated in such a context. That kind of a context could be used only if we had a source about what the people of the Greek Kingdom considered as the true borders of their state. Now that would be very interesting.

It is used in this context because it not only destroys a myth that "Macedonia was Greek for 4,000 years" () but it also provides the reader a view they may not have known existed amongst the people that ultimately were the enlightenment of your nations history.

[George S.]

Do people know how fickly the borders were determined.in 1913 when it was just a land grab of 51% of aegean macedonia & greece was shown not to be happy with that.Bulgaria wanted the whole of macedonia.If bulgaria came an hor earlier they would've got aegean macedonia.So seeing the way macedonia was divided up .ghow can one country belong to 4 other countries??
Unless it's a land grab.

[TrueMacedonian]

[makedonche]

TM
After reading this I'm starting to like my Avatar even more! lol

[Soldier of Macedon]

You guys find a bunch of philosophers in the last century debating Hellenism and you think you got something ? I can find similar references as well that regard you.

A bunch of philosophers? They were considered the 'intellectuals' among your ancestral kinsmen during the emergence of modern Greeks as a people - and they rejected a historical connection to the ancient Macedonians, considering them as foreigners instead. Can you show us how many references there are of Macedonians from the Ottoman period that rejected a historical connection to the ancient Macedonians?

[Voltron]

A bunch of philosophers? They were considered the 'intellectuals' among your ancestral kinsmen during the emergence of modern Greeks as a people - and they rejected a historical connection to the ancient Macedonians, considering them as foreigners instead. Can you show us how many references there are of Macedonians from the Ottoman period that rejected a historical connection to the ancient Macedonians?

For what its worth SOM, on the Greek sister forum there is a thread that specifically deals with this inaccurate generalization being made.

We are all entitled to our opinions and I would imagine that those Greek intellectuals in the past would of never thought in a million years that we would be debating this in the context of a political dispute between our two countries.

[Soldier of Macedon]

For what its worth SOM, on the Greek sister forum there is a thread that specifically deals with this inaccurate generalization being made.

Voltron, it ain't worth much if you're not presenting their arguments here, and I doubt anybody from this forum will be visiting theirs. At least here, you can be a Greek and call yourself one, irrespective of the views that people harbour, that sort of courtesy is unheard of in that racist 'sister' forum. In any case, I am not sure what their opinions will prove aside from an anachronistic viewpoint to suit the current 'model'. But I am happy to discuss if you wish to share them. When you stated earlier that you could find 'similar references' for my people, I take it you were making reference to certain Macedonian intellectuals from the same period that identified with prevalent socio-religious (and later political) terms like 'Bulgarian'. What you have failed to grasp is that these so-called 'Bulgarians' in Macedonia, despite the terminology, have always maintained that their ancestral history is from Macedonia. Check the below link:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1059

So, the Macedonians, with no state, no officially sponsored ideology and no external foreign support, still considered their history as essentially Macedonian, at least for the most part. The Greeks, on the other hand, having a state (or in the midst of creating one) and foreign external support, needed the latter element to develop their ideology. The general Greek sentiment (which was native) prior to this development (which was initially based on the views of foreigners) was quite simple, the freedom of the ancient Greeks ended with the commencement of Macedonian domination. There may be some exceptions to this 'rule', but this was generally the case.

[George S.]

Voltron at least you are welcome here you probably aren't welcomed there.Here you can at least see first hand of what we think.We also let you address your opinions which is more than the forum you get on.Without getting on that forum i know what they are talking about how were slavs & are not macedonians.How we are not connected to the ancient macedonians.You know this is manufactured shit to counteract the macedonian view.The thing here voltron you have learn't a lot that you know that they are wrong on the other forum.Voltron make the most here rather than there because we wan't genuine people to discuss our topics with .If it helps you to learn more of us then it's worth it.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

Voltron, it ain't worth much if you're not presenting their arguments here, and I doubt anybody from this forum will be visiting theirs. At least here, you can be a Greek and call yourself one, irrespective of the views that people harbour, that sort of courtesy is unheard of in that racist 'sister' forum. In any case, I am not sure what their opinions will prove aside from an anachronistic viewpoint to suit the current 'model'. But I am happy to discuss if you wish to share them. When you stated earlier that you could find 'similar references' for my people, I take it you were making reference to certain Macedonian intellectuals from the same period that identified with prevalent socio-religious (and later political) terms like 'Bulgarian'. What you have failed to grasp is that these so-called 'Bulgarians' in Macedonia, despite the terminology, have always maintained that their ancestral history is from Macedonia. Check the below link:

I dont find it appropriate to use other peoples sources and posting it here as my own to debate about. What I can say is that there are sources at the time that confirm the Hellenic nature of Ancient Macedonians from Greek intellectuals from the same time period and even before the 19th century.

What we have here are indivduals that may have had a different opinion. They are entitled to it and I believe it had more to do with their love for Athenian form of democracy than anything else.

I will respond to the rest of the post later.

[TrueMacedonian]

For what its worth SOM, on the Greek sister forum there is a thread that specifically deals with this inaccurate generalization being made.

We are all entitled to our opinions and I would imagine that those Greek intellectuals in the past would of never thought in a million years that we would be debating this in the context of a political dispute between our two countries.

I'm sure your forefathers would never have guessed it in this way. However leading men from the new Bavarian Kingdom of the neo-hellenes, Korais, Paparrigopoulos(pre-Megali Idea speech), Capo D'istria, etc. held a very odd looking opinion concerning the ancient Macedonians. Even this man here:






But it does go further than this as I will show later on.

[Voltron]

So if I post sources of other completely different opinions from the same period. Would that change your mind ?

Also, I find it hard to understand that even if this is the case, what does this have to do with you ? Do you honestly think that these Greek intellectuals that you are using as a reference had givenany thought to the Macedonian question a century later ?

This is a mute point and to try to politicize these people's opinions against the majority of Greeks that believe in the Hellenic nature of Ancient Macedonians is a mistake

[TrueMacedonian]

So if I post sources of other completely different opinions from the same period. Would that change your mind ?

Also, I find it hard to understand that even if this is the case, what does this have to do with you ? Do you honestly think that these Greek intellectuals that you are using as a reference had givenany thought to the Macedonian question a century later ?

This is a mute point and to try to politicize these people's opinions against the majority of Greeks that believe in the Hellenic nature of Ancient Macedonians is a mistake

Go ahead post something. Last one I noticed from your girlfriends forum was Georgios Sakelleriou. Visit that post on their forum and then visit the top of page 3 on this topic.

Now as to the reality of the newly made Bavarian Kingdom of the Balkans in the early nineteenth century and this ideology I will soon present something to the forum.