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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-01-2009, 07:38 PM   #31
Pelister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogi View Post
Pelister,

You have spread a whole lot of untruths and rubbish in this thread. There is absolutely no basis at all for any of what you have written.

You clearly have absolutely no idea about UMD whatsoever.

Where do you get this idea of you being on some high horse, almost God-like and all-seeing, of things that are not there?

UMD does not advocate for a compromise on the name. If it did, I would be working to destroy UMD, rather than build it.
UMD IS advocating for EU and NATO accession for Macedonia, however not at the expense of our Rights and Freedoms as Macedonians.

You are a sad, sad man if what you've written, is your agenda.
Oh, isn't that rich. Its almost a direct quote from Crvenko himself - typically ambiguous and full of shite.

Why on earth would UMD be advocating joining the E.U when half of its members don't recognize the Macedonians ?? You put too much value in these clubs from a Macedonian point of view, and if joining these clubs is at the top of the list of UMD's priorities for Macedonia - while refusing to engage simple principles of self determination and soveriegnty as a basis for all political relationshiops - then UMD means to do Macedonia harm

UMD support the negotiations. Thats a fact. UMd fully support the position that:


1. the dispute is legitimate
2. Greece has legitiamate grievances
3. that Greeks can be Macedonians too


For an organisation that claims "it is not political" whats it doing having a secret meeting with Crvenko (the opposition leader of all people)?

Listen carefully:

UMD are in the game of transforming the idea of what it means to be a Macedonian.

If you look at the direction of UMD's politics, its not only heading toward a compromise of the name, but to a geographical qualifier for Macedonia.

UMD won't defend Macedonians on basic principles of self determination and soveriegnty, but it is ready to accept a "political solution" ! .

I'll be fucked if I ever let an organization such as this pull the wool over peoples eyes.

UMD's political position is IDENTICAL to MPO, Vhrovists ... etc.

Look, if I was a Bulgarian or even a Greek agent who wanted to finally rip the soul out of "what is left" of Macedonia - I would be pouring my money in UMD !

One ranking member of UMD from Melbourne said on Maknews that changing our name is the only way to move Macedonia out of the dark ages ! What a fucking disgrace. What an ignorant thing to day - someone who knows nothing about Macedonian Christianity over the last 1,700 years.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:55 PM   #32
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Pelister, we have Rogi saying "UMD does not advocate for a compromise on the name."

We then have you saying "Oh, isn't that rich. Its almost a direct quote from Crvenko himself".

Crvenko has advocated a compromise on the name.

How do you reconcile this? Are you suggesting the UMD is lying to everyone?
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:04 PM   #33
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What I am saying is that UMD supports the negotiation process - it therefore supports the Greek position, even though this is a direct attack on Macedonia.

Some members of UMD have openly stated on Maknews that Macedonia should compromise its name to join NATO - Bushav being one of them. [Another one has said it must if it is to "move out of the dark ages". I'm not prepared to let shite like that slide.]

I even asked Meto what his position on a name compromise was - and he would not respond.

Furthermore, I sent a letter to Meto asking him to outline his defence against a name change - and he refused to respond. This was after I did alot of work for Meto on the Gorani (before I knew his politics).

I know what they are saying, RTG.

Roqi used the term "diplomatic" to refer to the more political senstive language.

That is part of the problem.

Why does UMD have to be "political sensitive" when all we and anyone else are talking about is standing up for our self determination and soveriegnty.

I think their language is sometimes deliberately ambiguous, and I don't trust an organization, which tries to "mask" what it stands for. There are just too many holes in its actions, the remarks of its members, and its language to be trusted.

And in its "big move" it asked for the suspencion of name negotiations - not because the negotiations are an attack on our soveriegnty, our history and our culture, but for the fked up reason that Greece wasn't "serious".


Reality check. Greece is deadly serious, and UMd are fking around.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:53 PM   #34
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There's really no point in discussing anything with you. As you've been told numerous times, UMD does not support the negotiation process.

Whilst in Macedonia, we had a meeting with Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki. I was there. We told them that UMD's position is for Macedonia to withdraw from the absurd negotiations over its name, negotiations which go against the very sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia.

They disagreed and thought it better to appear prepared to sit on a table and talk about our name, in order to look good for the international community.

We (UMD) are still pushing for withdrawal with each and every communiqué we have with them.

Do you want UMD to aplogize for not being a military/terrorist organization because that seems to be the only type of organization you would support.

UMD is not such an organization and it advocates a completely different approach to achieving the goals of the Macedonian cause.

Many different types of organizations are needed in order to achieve the goals of the Macedonian cause, some inside Macedonia, some outside Macedonia, some more radical, some based on politics and lobbying, some based on arts and culture, some based on philanthropy, some based on charity, some for human rights, some with business leaders, some with IT experts and hackers, etc etc.

UMD is a registered not for profit charitable organization and its mission, objectives and goals are Right and based on and aligned with the Macedonian cause.

I have explained UMD's position to you and you are unwilling to accept anything I've written, but rather you are being quite ignorant and stubborn holding to your own misconceptions and creations.

Quote:
One ranking member of UMD from Melbourne said on Maknews that changing our name is the only way to move Macedonia out of the dark ages
Care to tell us who that was? Other than Ordan Andreevski (who is not a Maknews member) and myself, there are no other 'ranking members of UMD from Melbourne' so you've either made that up, or you are being told stories that you're spreading.



Finally, stop referring to me as 'Roqi' (with a q) my nickname is 'Rogi' (with a g).
My name is Igor and my nickname is my name in reverse.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogi View Post
There's really no point in discussing anything with you. As you've been told numerous times, UMD does not support the negotiation process.

Whilst in Macedonia, we had a meeting with Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki. I was there. We told them that UMD's position is for Macedonia to withdraw from the absurd negotiations over its name, negotiations which go against the very sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia.

They disagreed and thought it better to appear prepared to sit on a table and talk about our name, in order to look good for the international community.

We (UMD) are still pushing for withdrawal with each and every communiqué we have with them.

Do you want UMD to aplogize for not being a military/terrorist organization because that seems to be the only type of organization you would support.

UMD is not such an organization and it advocates a completely different approach to achieving the goals of the Macedonian cause.

Many different types of organizations are needed in order to achieve the goals of the Macedonian cause, some inside Macedonia, some outside Macedonia, some more radical, some based on politics and lobbying, some based on arts and culture, some based on philanthropy, some based on charity, some for human rights, some with business leaders, some with IT experts and hackers, etc etc.

UMD is a registered not for profit charitable organization and its mission, objectives and goals are Right and based on and aligned with the Macedonian cause.

I have explained UMD's position to you and you are unwilling to accept anything I've written, but rather you are being quite ignorant and stubborn holding to your own misconceptions and creations.



Care to tell us who that was? Other than Ordan Andreevski (who is not a Maknews member) and myself, there are no other 'ranking members of UMD from Melbourne' so you've either made that up, or you are being told stories that you're spreading.



Finally, stop referring to me as 'Roqi' (with a q) my nickname is 'Rogi' (with a g).
My name is Igor and my nickname is my name in reverse.

That is reassuring.

I'd like you to produce some of these "communiques" and I can find out from the other end, whether they are genuine.

Here is the problem Rogi.

1. Your telling me UMD are pushing to "withdraw from the absurd negotiations" on the grounds that its an attack on Macedonian sovereignty.

2. PUBLICLY UMD has called for a "suspension" (not a withdraw) and not on the grounds you are stating to me - rather on the grounds that UMD thinks the Greeks are not "serious". (This very public position tells me that a name change is acceptable to UMD as long as the Greeks are reasonable about it! Its a shifty round-a-bout way of saying it, but its there plain as day).

Say one thing, do something else.

So you can understand that when I think of two-faced snakes - I think of UMD.


Secondly,

I've been in contact (by accident) with a small number of very competent and intelligent people who left UMD because they did not agree with Meto's politics regarding the name, and Meto's politics regarding the negotiations. I have no reason to doubt their word - they left on ideological grounds.

Also, someone let it slip on Maknews that a name change for NATO membership was acceptable. I only found out later that they were a UMD member close to Meto.

So I confronted the individuals in question, and finally I confronted Meto about it. He would not respond, or give me an answer (I took this personally, because I did some work for him).

UMD is a playing politics, so you can spin the whole "non-profit" spiel all you want.

Given UMD's public announcements, the ideological division between who is there now, and those who left, as well as that ideas of some members of UMD expressed on Maknews - I would have to conclude that UMD's politics is bad for Macedonia, and bad for the Macedonians, and if Greeks and Bulgars got wind of what UMD was really about - you would have an endless supply of money.

I'm not a militant, and some your personal attacks don't bother me. I'm a greenie, and a humanist - I'm a Christian and my Macedonian ancestors were brutalized and tortured by the Greeks - and UMD doesn't give a fuck.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:46 AM   #36
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Firstly, I have not personally attacked you anywhere in this thread. I have re-read my posts and do not see how it can be read as a personal attack.

Secondly, I have sent you a private message. I hope you are able to respond to it
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelister View Post
That is reassuring.

I'd like you to produce some of these "communiques" and I can find out from the other end, whether they are genuine.

Here is the problem Rogi.

1. Your telling me UMD are pushing to "withdraw from the absurd negotiations" on the grounds that its an attack on Macedonian sovereignty.

2. PUBLICLY UMD has called for a "suspension" (not a withdraw) and not on the grounds you are stating to me - rather on the grounds that UMD thinks the Greeks are not "serious". (This very public position tells me that a name change is acceptable to UMD as long as the Greeks are reasonable about it! Its a shifty round-a-bout way of saying it, but its there plain as day).

Say one thing, do something else.

So you can understand that when I think of two-faced snakes - I think of UMD.


Secondly,

I've been in contact (by accident) with a small number of very competent and intelligent people who left UMD because they did not agree with Meto's politics regarding the name, and Meto's politics regarding the negotiations. I have no reason to doubt their word - they left on ideological grounds.

Also, someone let it slip on Maknews that a name change for NATO membership was acceptable. I only found out later that they were a UMD member close to Meto.

So I confronted the individuals in question, and finally I confronted Meto about it. He would not respond, or give me an answer (I took this personally, because I did some work for him).

UMD is a playing politics, so you can spin the whole "non-profit" spiel all you want.

Given UMD's public announcements, the ideological division between who is there now, and those who left, as well as that ideas of some members of UMD expressed on Maknews - I would have to conclude that UMD's politics is bad for Macedonia, and bad for the Macedonians, and if Greeks and Bulgars got wind of what UMD was really about - you would have an endless supply of money.

I'm not a militant, and some your personal attacks don't bother me. I'm a greenie, and a humanist - I'm a Christian and my Macedonian ancestors were brutalized and tortured by the Greeks - and UMD doesn't give a fuck.

Hey Pelister

Did you say you contact UMD directly and asked for answers? What was the response?
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:33 PM   #38
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No response, Jankovska.

And I know of a couple people who left UMd because of ideological differences with its leadership - and the people who left were asking for nothing more than the defence and preservation of the Macedonian identity. UMd have said that they are not into the business of defending Macedonian rights ...etc, they are a different kind of political organization.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:55 PM   #39
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Без да навлегвам во спорот меѓу вас, мислам дека не е најпаметно овие внатрешни дискусии да ги водите пред очите на душманите.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:08 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bratot View Post
Без да навлегвам во спорот меѓу вас, мислам дека не е најпаметно овие внатрешни дискусии да ги водите пред очите на душманите.
Your probably right, and I'm kinda pleased I was able to read what your wrote and understand it. I've been tyring to teach myself to read in Macedonian. Thanks.
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