Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Originally posted by George S. View Post
    of our slavic roots.
    I do not for one minute believe we have slavic roots. I do not know what that means nor do I accept anything other than our roots being Macedonian.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • julie
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 3869

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      I do not for one minute believe we have slavic roots. I do not know what that means nor do I accept anything other than our roots being Macedonian.
      Agreed

      Grtsite po toa "slavjani" ni vikaat, i po to nachin velat deka Makedonija e Grchka, nashite vo Egejskiot del Makedonija znachi ne postojat kako Makedontsi

      Pa koga zboruvav so nashiot star pop Jordan Tasev, im postojav edno prashenje. Na sluzhbite koga velaat pravoslavni, ne e deka Makedonskiot narod e slavjanski narod, pa za VERATA, znachi pravoslavni - Macedonian Orthodox

      It is contra to our unique Macedonian language, culture etc to label Macedonians as slav, I disagree with the ethnic connotation placed upon us, and dispute there are a "slav" people
      Linguistically, there are similarities between different ethnicities within the Balkans, but the same can also be said for Spanish, Mexican, Italian, nobody calls them an ethnic hispanic people
      The slav Macedonian theory plays into the Grk propoganda that Macedonia is Greek for Macedonians in the occupied territories .
      The slav Macedonian qualifier that Macedonians are slav, also supports the Bulgarian notion that we are Bulgarian
      Macedonians are unique, I am not saying that we are pure, as there will always be inter-ethnic unions, however the slav theory discounts Macedonians as descendants of Alexander the Great
      I am not a historian nor a linguist, but something Macedonians today need to take on board and recognise that there are vicious power plays in place for the ethnic genocide of our people and nation, and the west will continue to support the false propaganda spread by Greeks, and the slav theory that we are slavs will be detrimental for the continuance of our very existence
      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

      Comment

      • Onur
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 2389

        Originally posted by julie View Post
        Linguistically, there are similarities between different ethnicities within the Balkans, but the same can also be said for Spanish, Mexican, Italian, nobody calls them an ethnic hispanic people

        The slav Macedonian theory plays into the Grk propoganda
        Thats a good point Julie. The connotation of the adjective "slav" in an ethnic sense started with Karl Marx`s theories of united slavic speaking people under the domination of Russia to create Russian satellites in Europe. Before that, there was no such a thing. This idea is totally collapsed with Yugoslavia and with the end of communism in Russia.

        But as you said, Greeks are purposely still using this long-gone connotation to undermine your identity and your nation.


        Also, some of you trying prove something by using the terms Slovene, Slovak. I don't think you can reach a proper point with that because both the terms of Slovene and Slovak created quite recently if we compare with the word Slav.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          Julie, who here has said anything about Macedonians being 'ethnic Slavs' or that Macedonians should have a 'Slav' qualifier?
          Originally posted by Julie
          .......the slav theory discounts Macedonians as descendants of Alexander the Great.....
          Which theory? That the Macedonians speak a language belonging to the Slavic linguistic group? Because aside from that, I don't see anybody claiming anything else.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            There is a slav language we speak it.WE are also macedonian.THe only connection with the slavs is the language right?
            There aree countries like greece trying to tar us with the same brush as if we just speak the slav language & we must be slavic.There is no slav people only macedonian people.
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              Originally posted by julie View Post
              but the same can also be said for Spanish, Mexican, Italian, nobody calls them an ethnic hispanic people
              The correct terminology is Latin for the linguistic grouping of these people. It means nothing more than that. How Mexican people who once were akin to American Indians (now speaking Spanish) can be thought of as "Latins" in an ethnic or national sense is beyond me.

              Macedonians have far more unique features than Mexicans but some people are still afraid to mention the "S" word when it comes to linguistic similarities. I see no problem in making the obvious declaration of linguistic familiarity within the slavic languages.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • vojnik
                Member
                • Apr 2011
                • 307

                This thread should be made sticky and I also share the same views as SoM about this I have spent days researching this stuff at the Australian Nation Library even though I did SoM's knowledge on this matter is far more extensive.

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  RTG correct me if'm wrong to some xtent all languages are influenced by each other.That still doesn't change the ethnic sense.We still are macedonian ethnically.Our blood running through our veins is macedonian blood.Anyway the slavs were assimilated into mainstream macedonia.So the only influence or connection is the language.It doesn't make you any less macedonian or more macedonian.Also all races in the world coorect me if i'm wrong aren't pure because they intermingle & assimilate that is natural in the scheme of things.The thing i'm reminded is why did alexander want his men to intermarry with other nationalities if he wanted to keep a pure breed of macedonian.I think he wanted the benefits of assimilation * intermingling of the races.

                  In rehgard to the slavs my knowledge of the slavs was disjointed at best i didn't know for a fact that we are only using the slav language.Nothing else has changed except the linguistics we still are macedonians.We have to face reality as to the historical happenings & accept what the truth is that only our language is affected linguistically nothing else.The other thing i would like to add that scholars tell us that the macedonian language,venetic.prhygian is interrelated with the slavic language & its basically the same language.One could really drop the slav reference if one wanted to.language

                  vojnik that is why i suggested to som that he should give us a 1 page tretise of the extent he knows on slavs as his knowledge is extensive,But the dialogue so far is dispelling any differences we had it better to do it now than later.I'm for the better for it.If you got anything on your chest now is the time vojnik.
                  Last edited by George S.; 10-13-2011, 08:36 PM. Reason: ed
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • makedonche
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 3242

                    George S.
                    You and I are Macedonian (and most people on this forum), we have Macedonian blood, we have Macedonian customs, we have Macedonian traditions & culture - we are Macedonian- full stop!
                    We speak Macedonian, to my knowledge it is one of the oldest languages around and it is categorised as being a part of the "Slavic" language group - that doesn't make us Slavs, we are still Macedonian!
                    There are other nationalities, ethnic groups and country's who speak similar but still different languages - for example Ukranian, these people speak Ukranian, are Ukranian and have Ukrainian customs/traditions, the Ukranian language is also part of the "Slavic" language group, but they are not Slavs either(to the best of my knowledge).
                    The so called "Slav" theory, is just that - a theory! IMHO
                    The Greeks saw that Macedonia was becomming a republic and decided they were not prepared to hand over the large chunk of Macedonia they stole so they went about trying to convince the world that it was always Greek and Macedonia was always Greek that way they wouldn't have to give it back and pay reparations for the atrocities committed.
                    Our genius first president - Gligorov - for whatever deluded reason, decided to announce we are "Slavs" and declared it openly trying to distinguish us from the so called "Macedonians that were always Greek" - this was a fatal error - the Greeks seized on this and use it to convince the world we are "Slavs/Slav Macedonians" because our president says so, and are different from the Macedonians who have always been Greek and therefore must have arrived in the area during the so called "Slav Migration" of the 6th century, this bullshit along with similar bullshit about "Tito" creating the Rebublic of Macedonia in 1942 is just Greek propoganda to avoid having to give our country back!
                    What I will tell you is that our history is still being written and as we type here on the forum there are many archaeologists at work in Macedonia making many important discoveries, some of these discoveries will show the Macedonian people, language, traditions and customs are a lot older than most academics know - it's just a matter of time before this data/information is presented to the world and the Greeks are put in their rightfull place - that is a false nation of Albanian wannabees created by the English/Germans/French around 1820 - before that the Ancient Greeks were finished off at the battle of Chaeronia!
                    On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                    Comment

                    • julie
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 3869

                      Originally posted by makedonche View Post
                      George S.
                      You and I are Macedonian (and most people on this forum), we have Macedonian blood, we have Macedonian customs, we have Macedonian traditions & culture - we are Macedonian- full stop!
                      We speak Macedonian, to my knowledge it is one of the oldest languages around and it is categorised as being a part of the "Slavic" language group - that doesn't make us Slavs, we are still Macedonian!
                      There are other nationalities, ethnic groups and country's who speak similar but still different languages - for example Ukranian, these people speak Ukranian, are Ukranian and have Ukrainian customs/traditions, the Ukranian language is also part of the "Slavic" language group, but they are not Slavs either(to the best of my knowledge).
                      The so called "Slav" theory, is just that - a theory! IMHO
                      The Greeks saw that Macedonia was becomming a republic and decided they were not prepared to hand over the large chunk of Macedonia they stole so they went about trying to convince the world that it was always Greek and Macedonia was always Greek that way they wouldn't have to give it back and pay reparations for the atrocities committed.
                      Our genius first president - Gligorov - for whatever deluded reason, decided to announce we are "Slavs" and declared it openly trying to distinguish us from the so called "Macedonians that were always Greek" - this was a fatal error - the Greeks seized on this and use it to convince the world we are "Slavs/Slav Macedonians" because our president says so, and are different from the Macedonians who have always been Greek and therefore must have arrived in the area during the so called "Slav Migration" of the 6th century, this bullshit along with similar bullshit about "Tito" creating the Rebublic of Macedonia in 1942 is just Greek propoganda to avoid having to give our country back!
                      What I will tell you is that our history is still being written and as we type here on the forum there are many archaeologists at work in Macedonia making many important discoveries, some of these discoveries will show the Macedonian people, language, traditions and customs are a lot older than most academics know - it's just a matter of time before this data/information is presented to the world and the Greeks are put in their rightfull place - that is a false nation of Albanian wannabees created by the English/Germans/French around 1820 - before that the Ancient Greeks were finished off at the battle of Chaeronia!
                      Agreed on all counts Makedonche!

                      Heraclea Lyncestis is one of those archaelogical digs in the surrounds of Bitola , where an archaelogist there stated to us the layers they are unfolding are 11 deep, and there were possibly a Lyceneum ancient Macedonian people there
                      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                      Comment

                      • Dejan
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 589

                        Nobody is slavic by blood. There is no such thing. Slav is a linguistic group. Our ethnicity has always been, and always will be Macedonian.
                        You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                        A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          I've been following this thread for about a week now, making only minor comments. I'm not a historian or a linguist, so its hard for me to follow some of the arguments. But I have made some observations:

                          1. NO ONE here has even remotely suggested that the Macedonians are slavs. To the contrary, they have argued against the MYTH that Macedonians are slavs.

                          2. What some have suggested, such as SoM, is that we need to study our own history in order to refute the claims made by those who promote the slav myth.

                          3. Some on here seem to think that the slav myth can be destroyed by simply ignoring it, and in doing so, they refuse to discuss Macedonian history spanning anywhere from approximately 300 AD to 1500 AD. This is ridiculous! What exactly are they afraid of? Simply studying Macedonian history for that period does not equate support for the slav myth. Attempting to make an intellectual rebuttle of the slav myth does not equate support for the slav myth. Stating the fact that the Macedonian language is related to other languages (just like every language that has ever existed) does not equate support for the slav myth.

                          It is a sad display of plastic patriotism by those who tremble at the knees every time the ‘S’ word is mentioned or any attempt to study Macedonian history spanning a certain 1,200 year period is made. It is a show of political immaturity and a gross misunderstanding of what ethnic identity actually is as opposed to what they imagine that it is.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Pelister
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2742

                            Originally posted by Onur View Post
                            Thats a good point Julie. The connotation of the adjective "slav" in an ethnic sense started with Karl Marx`s theories of united slavic speaking people under the domination of Russia to create Russian satellites in Europe. Before that, there was no such a thing. This idea is totally collapsed with Yugoslavia and with the end of communism in Russia.

                            But as you said, Greeks are purposely still using this long-gone connotation to undermine your identity and your nation.


                            Also, some of you trying prove something by using the terms Slovene, Slovak. I don't think you can reach a proper point with that because both the terms of Slovene and Slovak created quite recently if we compare with the word Slav.
                            There are many problems associated with using the term. The use of the term 'Slav' as any kind of identifier is a distortion. More importantly it plays directly into the hands of our enemies, who make it a point of distinguishing our ethnic identity, national identity and linguistic identity as 'Slav'. In addition to that our enemies are counting on the associations people in the West make between the term 'Slav' and certain historical events. The assumption that Westerners got it right when they defined 'Slavic' as a common language is about as accurate, as their garbage take on the Albanian language. A percentage of common words in various languages does not necessarily mean they have a common origin. I don't like using it, and I think that if we go back to the primary source material we will find that its use (in nearly every variation), is based on stupid assumptions. I think that we are still trying to get passed the assumptions of classicists and British gentlemen, as well as Russian propoganda of the 18th and 19th centuries. This gradual 'Slavicisation' of the Macedonians has to stop.

                            Comment

                            • Pelister
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2742

                              Originally posted by makedonche View Post
                              George S.
                              You and I are Macedonian (and most people on this forum), we have Macedonian blood, we have Macedonian customs, we have Macedonian traditions & culture - we are Macedonian- full stop!
                              We speak Macedonian, to my knowledge it is one of the oldest languages around and it is categorised as being a part of the "Slavic" language group - that doesn't make us Slavs, we are still Macedonian!
                              There are other nationalities, ethnic groups and country's who speak similar but still different languages - for example Ukranian, these people speak Ukranian, are Ukranian and have Ukrainian customs/traditions, the Ukranian language is also part of the "Slavic" language group, but they are not Slavs either(to the best of my knowledge).
                              The so called "Slav" theory, is just that - a theory! IMHO
                              The Greeks saw that Macedonia was becomming a republic and decided they were not prepared to hand over the large chunk of Macedonia they stole so they went about trying to convince the world that it was always Greek and Macedonia was always Greek that way they wouldn't have to give it back and pay reparations for the atrocities committed.
                              Our genius first president - Gligorov - for whatever deluded reason, decided to announce we are "Slavs" and declared it openly trying to distinguish us from the so called "Macedonians that were always Greek" - this was a fatal error - the Greeks seized on this and use it to convince the world we are "Slavs/Slav Macedonians" because our president says so, and are different from the Macedonians who have always been Greek and therefore must have arrived in the area during the so called "Slav Migration" of the 6th century, this bullshit along with similar bullshit about "Tito" creating the Rebublic of Macedonia in 1942 is just Greek propoganda to avoid having to give our country back!
                              What I will tell you is that our history is still being written and as we type here on the forum there are many archaeologists at work in Macedonia making many important discoveries, some of these discoveries will show the Macedonian people, language, traditions and customs are a lot older than most academics know - it's just a matter of time before this data/information is presented to the world and the Greeks are put in their rightfull place - that is a false nation of Albanian wannabees created by the English/Germans/French around 1820 - before that the Ancient Greeks were finished off at the battle of Chaeronia!
                              The problem is that there was no 'Slav invasions' at least on the basis of the original sources.

                              It may be difficult to understand my point. There were invaders during the 6th century, definitely; but there is not a shred of evidence to even suggest they were 'Slavs'.

                              The moment one starts to call people, places, events 'Slav', it automatically suggests that the author knows what a 'Slav' is! How could someone know that the identity of a 6th century invader was 'Slav'; even more significant than that is what do they mean by 'Slav'? This goes to the heart of the problem. The entire exercise is perilous. It is fraught with minefields, with mischief, with pressuppositions based on a poor reading of the primary sources and the evidence. The identity of 6th century invaders is a mystery, and the idea that they entirely wiped out millions of indigenous people so that no trace of them can be found, is simply not sustainable any more professional opinion.

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                                A percentage of common words in various languages does not necessarily mean they have a common origin. I don't like using it, and I think that if we go back to the primary source material we will find that its use (in nearly every variation), is based on stupid assumptions. I think that we are still trying to get passed the assumptions of classicists and British gentlemen, as well as Russian propoganda of the 18th and 19th centuries.
                                Pelister, surely they use more than just a simple percentage of common words when aruging that languages have a common origin? Peter Hill, a distinguised linguist at the ANU, and a specialist in Macedonian has explained to me that there are a whole range of factors that demonstrate similarity between Macedonian and other East European languages. I didn't quite understand much of it, but it appeared to me that it was much more complex than just word similarities. If it were just a matter of word similarities, then Macedonian could be considered a Germanic language becuase of its thorough bastardisation with English words?
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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