Sparta and the Spartans - The History

[Agamoi Thytai]

Lavce,

according to what i posted, the Ancient Hellenes were Black. Nothing wrong with that, but if the modern greeks wish to feel Black (just less gifted down stairs) thats their business

Why is it that no serious scholar outside Macedonia pays attention to this "Black Athena" crap?

[Bill77]

Why is it that no serious scholar outside Macedonia pays attention to this "Black Athena" crap?

What is it that makes you feel like you are descendent's of the ancient Hellenes?

What makes you think i have the book or quoted from "Black Athena"

What makes a serious scholar? is it someone that receives money from Greece and tows the line?

The post i show was from scholars such as, C.A. Winters, J.A. Rogers Parker, Diop and DuBois who have reviewed the writings of the classical authors, the anthropological, archaeological, linguistic and historical evidence to reach the conclusion that the ancient Greeks were Black.

Are you more educated than them???
Have you read why they came to such conclusion?

[Bill77]

THE PELASGIANS

The Greeks often called the first inhabitants of Greece Pelasgians. The Greek writers claimed that Pelasgus, the great ancestor of the Pelasgians was the first man. The Pelasgians were a combination of diverse Black tribes which included the Achaeans , Kadmeans, and Leleges. The Garamantes were also often called Pelasgians by some classical writers. Strabo said "that the Pelasgi, as indeed the most ancient nation, were diffused through all Greece, and especially among the Aeolians".

The city of Argo was founded by Phoroneus, the father of Pelasgus, Iasus and Agenor. It was these folks who divided the Peloponnese between them.

Herodotus referred to the Pelasgians as "venerable ancestors". He said that the first Athenians "they were Pelasgi, the later possessing the country now designed Hellas". The Pelasgian founding of Athens is also noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii.402ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes in Europe. Pausanias, noted that "The Arcadians make mention of Pelasgus as the first person who existed in their country. From this king the whole region took the name Pilasgia". Hopper noted that the Pelasgians founded Attica.

The Black immigrants from Canaan were also settled in the Aegean at Argolis. They called themselves the "Sons of Abas". Many of the Melampodes later took part of Argolis away from the Canaanites.

The earliest Greek alphabet was made by the Pelasgians, it was lost and later reintroduced by Kadmus to Boeotia. Another Pelasgian, Evander of Arcadia introduced writing to the Italians. This script was used to make the first fifteen characters of the Latin script according to Pliny and Plutarch.


Now are you going to blame Strabo, Herodotus, Plutarch, for this?

[Bill77]

Pelasgians from Thera

Pliny says that one of the Aegean scripts was created by an Egyptian named Menos. An Egyptian creation of one of the early Greek alphabets is not out of the question because the early Predynastic Egyptians used the Proto-Saharan script as did the founders of the 12th Dynasty. Moreover, the Tiles of Rameses II, published by F. Hitching, in The Mysterious World, are analogous to the early Greek characters.


Writers, Gellius, also, supposed that they were invented in Egypt by Mercury: others, again, will have it that they were discovered by the Syrians; and that Cadmus brought from Phœnicia sixteen letters into Greece. To these, Palamedes, it is said, at the time of the Trojan war, added these four, θ, ξ, φ, and χ. Simonides, the lyric poet, afterwards added a like number, ζ, η, ψ, and ω; the sounds denoted by all of which are now received into our alphabet.
Aristotle, on the other hand, is rather of opinion, that there were originally eighteen letters, α β γ δ ε ζ ι κ λ μ ν ο π ρ ς τ υ φ, and that two, θ namely and χ, were introduced by Epicharmus, and not by Palamedes. Aristides says, that a certain person of the name of Menos, in Egypt, invented letters fifteen years before the reign of Phoroneus.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why is it that no serious scholar outside Macedonia pays attention to this "Black Athena" crap?

It may not be accepted in its entirety, but don't try and claim that Bernal's book is full of falsities as it is not. If you think otherwise, show me these scholars outside of Macedonia that wholesale dismiss his works. And if you haven't bothered to read it and the sources and circumstances he cites, then you should take the time to do it. Don't be afraid.

[Bill77]

Let me start off with a funny and somewhat sad, but true story that pushed me to only recently further delve into the subject of Spartans. I seriously do not know wherether to laugh or cry.

I have this relative, which (according to his wife) has watched the movie 300 ........ 300 times. He is in his 50's and according to his better half lol, each time, he plays the movie, he sits there looking mesmerized throughout the movie like a child watches their favourite super heroe movie. But wait it gets worse.

When the Spartans do that cry or call it a chant "AHOOOO" he screams it at the top of his lungs right on cue. But wait again, it still gets worse.

This relative, is Macedonian from the Greek occupied part of Macedonia. Growing up, all he spoke was Macedonian at home. But he is a type of Egejec that is very common, where one minute they claim they are patriotic Macedonians and the next, they dance the Chifteteli and hang a Greek flag on their wall.

I often discuss history with this moron. Why? I can only put it down to, I being a sucker for punishment. I would share with him ancient and modern historian quotes. He shares with me Hollywood quotes and swears by them by them, such as "When Greeks were writing philosophy, everyone else were swinging from trees" a quote from "my big fat Greek wedding". Oh and he swears by Oliver Stone as being the father of History (re the movie Alexander).

Now back to the subject of "Spartans" and the movie "300"
I will soon share my understanding. I will show the inaccuracies of both the movie and the heroic, glorious perception of these Spartans. I would be happy for people to correct my thinking when or if they can, for the sake of benefiting my understanding.

So it's more reader friendly, where you don't have to read for hours and get bored, I will divide and post section at a time. The subjects I will cover step by step are as follows,

A) Herodotus
B) The real Spartans
C) The 'Battle Of Thermopylae and the real valorous
D) The power of Movies

Finally.....why am I doing this? For the sake of my own sanity. So I don't really care if people don't read this or not respond. It's a little project of mine. I have all this information on many subjects floating around but not filed correctly in my head. Sometimes when I need to pull out this information to use in discussion, and because I have so much to say, I get frustrated as lot tends to want to come out at once and they can come out not in its right context. I've discovered what helps me to store things in order, is to write things down.

Speak to you all soon.

[Redsun]

Why is it that no serious scholar outside Macedonia pays attention to this "Black Athena" crap?

HAVE A GOOD LOOK AT THIS PICTURE.

[Solid]

This picture does not prove what you're trying to say, ancient greeks were not black, black athena was debunked and all the rest is afrocentrists bullshits.
This not because you hate greeks that you need to adopt every theories that are against them, this is not a way to win a "war".

[Redsun]

"HAVE A GOOD LOOK AT THIS PICTURE"

Solid "This picture does not prove what you're trying to say"

What am I trying to say in 7 words?

Solid "Ancient Greeks were not black"

Did I state ancient Greeks were black? Where have I mentioned white or black?

Solid "This is not because you hate Greeks"

Solid these 7 words of yours made me sick.

Dr Smiths "Smaller history of Greece" seventh addition 1867 by William Smith

CHAPTER XXI page 203

When the news of Alexanders death reach Athens, the anti- Macedonian party,which, since the exile of Demosthenes, was led by Hyperides, carried all before it. The people in a decree declared their determination to support the liberty of Greece.

An Anti- Macedonian party WDF! One that has bred hate and genocideto this day, has Macedonia ever had an Anti- Greek party?

Am I apart of an Anti- Greek party?

Your words are deceptive, Your a lier, See I know, and you know, there are people that view this website that are not either Greek or Macedonian you hope by stating "Hate of Greeks" you would have these viewers believe that there is such a thing.

You and I know the truth, you hate us. Why make it look the other way?

And last... Solid "this is not a way to win a "war"".

You must have read "The Art of War" by Sun tzu, you know Macedonia is being attacked politically.

This information can also be found in "The Smaller History of Greece". Try CHAPTER II page 5.

Attica is said to have been indebted for the arts of civilized life to Cecrops, a native of Sais in Egypt. To him is ascribed the city of Athens. The institution of marriage, and the introduction of religious rites and ceremonies.

Argos in like manner, is said to have been founded by the Egyptian Danaus, who fled to Greece with his fifty daughters. The Egyptian stranger was elected king by the natives and from him the tribe of the Danai derived their name, which Homer frequently uses as a general appellation for the Greeks.

Another colony was the one led from Asia by Pelops, from whom the southern peninsula of Greece derived its name of Peloponnesus. Pelops is represented as a Phrygian, and the son of the wealthy king Tantalus. He became king of Mycene.

The tale of the Phoenician colony, conducted by Cadmus, and which founded Thebes and Boeotia, rests upon a different basis. Whether there was such a person as the Phoenician Cadmus, and whether he built the town Cadmea, which afterwards became the citadel of Thebes, as the ancient legends relate, cannot be determined; but it is certain that the Greeks were indebted to the Phoenicians for the art of writing; for both the names and the forms of the letters in the Greek alphabet are evidently derived from the Phoenician.

Back to the topic I don't like movies that feature wars its boring seeing so many sausages on a screen, I want to look at women. If they made a war movie about the Amazon woman tribes I would watch that definitely. The 300 Spartans movie, I didn't think it was anything near as good as the original "The 300 Spartans" 1962 starring Richard Egan my favorite scene is when a chariot flips carrying a soldier this was before special graphics and computer animation 1962. That stunt actor would have had broken limbs after that tumble I can never forget that scene.

What about that movie "Troy" starring Brad Pitt. They depicted the whole Greek army as white. The Agamemnon's soldiers had the lightest skin color of all the Greeks ,I wonder what went through King Priams mind when he seen white soldiers amongst the Canaanite colored approaching Troy.