Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #31
    Yes voltron your govt tried to lie & say everything in greece is homogenous that it's pure greeks.When you read what really happened is greece was on a desperate mission to rebuild greece not having the population it tried to alter the demographic nature.If someone speaks greek then by greek standards they are greek.This sort of artificial adaptation of foreign nationals was so widespread throughout greeceTHe hard evidence of cracks in the system is you had a number of albanian priministers.You had the fiasco of people in the navy speaking in albanian against the wishes of the greeks & other situations.Not to mention the agean area was resettled with trhe population echanges ,pontiacs etcSo back in 1913 &then 1920's you had forced assimilation & suppression of rights,denials of macedonian existence etc etc.
    Last edited by George S.; 04-08-2011, 05:45 PM. Reason: ed
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

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    • TrueMacedonian
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 3810

      #32
      Originally posted by Voltron View Post
      After the Slavs, its the Vlachs then the Albanians. Like I said earlier,in order of significance and in regards to mainland Greece.
      I guess you're under the pre-conceived notion that the islands were left 'untouched'. But besides the already mentioned ethnies we must also remember the Italian, Armenian, and Arabic elements moving around the Ottoman empire.
      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

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      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #33
        Surely the Venetians are worthy of mention.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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        • El Bre
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 713

          #34
          Great topic. I have a book by Nicholas Ostler called Empires of the Word which deals extensively with the rise and fall of the Greek language. He talks about how in many instances the language was perpetuated by non Greeks and states that Alexander the Great was one such example.

          We are in the middle of moving at the moment, but, if I can find the book I will post some excerpts.
          Last edited by El Bre; 04-08-2011, 09:11 PM.

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          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #35
            Originally posted by Voltron
            Koine just standardised the language. Same thing with Macedonian or any other language. We have many dialects still in place. Romaika, Cypriot, Tsakonian, Calabrese, ect.
            Romaika, Cypriot, Cappadocian, Griko, Pontic, etc are all overwhelmingly derived from Koine, there is no doubt about it. Even Tsakonian is questionably 'Doric' on the level that has been suggested.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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            • Onur
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 2389

              #36
              Cypriot dialect is also based on Koine because today`s Cypriots gone there after 16th century from central Anatolia. If you ask Greeks, they will say that Cyprus is 10.000 year old Greek territory but ofc this is not the truth. During the ~350 year old Latin, Venetian rule in all Aegean islands after first crusade, Greek orthodoxy was pretty much dead and non-existent in there. Especially Cyprus was an important base for catholic Knights of Templar since ~1200 AD.

              After Ottoman Empire threw catholics out from aegean and mediterranean, Greek orthodoxy restored in islands. Then both Greeks and Turks gone to the Cyprus mostly from central Anatolia like Konya, Kayseri(Casseria?) after 16th century. Thats why Greek Cypriot dialect is based on Koine and unrelated to Doric.

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              • Voltron
                Banned
                • Jan 2011
                • 1362

                #37
                Originally posted by Onur View Post
                Cypriot dialect is also based on Koine because today`s Cypriots gone there after 16th century from central Anatolia. If you ask Greeks, they will say that Cyprus is 10.000 year old Greek territory but ofc this is not the truth. During the ~350 year old Latin, Venetian rule in all Aegean islands after first crusade, Greek orthodoxy was pretty much dead and non-existent in there. Especially Cyprus was an important base for catholic Knights of Templar since ~1200 AD.

                After Ottoman Empire threw catholics out from aegean and mediterranean, Greek orthodoxy restored in islands. Then both Greeks and Turks gone to the Cyprus mostly from central Anatolia like Konya, Kayseri(Casseria?) after 16th century. Thats why Greek Cypriot dialect is based on Koine and unrelated to Doric.
                Onur, do you know when Koine was used as a standard dialect ? Are we looking for ancient dialects of Greek to prove something ? I dont understand your point. Your also way off about Greeks, Cyprus and 16th century but Il leave it alone in order to not disrupt the thread.

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                • Voltron
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1362

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  Romaika, Cypriot, Cappadocian, Griko, Pontic, etc are all overwhelmingly derived from Koine, there is no doubt about it. Even Tsakonian is questionably 'Doric' on the level that has been suggested.
                  Im interpreting this thread as how much of an impact foreign ethnicities had on Greeks up until today. Im bascially listing events in history that I consider had an impact to us. I started out with the Slavs, as to me was one of the greater events that has happened on the mainland.

                  Let me know if you disagree with anything you have seen so far regarding the Slavic impact on our region or more specifically to Greece.

                  Comment

                  • Voltron
                    Banned
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1362

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Surely the Venetians are worthy of mention.
                    I havnt heard much about them as far as having an impact. I think theirs was mostly administrative in nature and not on the people.

                    There is mention of Franks though on the Western Pelopponese. I have read that the Greeks and Slavs of the Peloponnese were united in a common enemy. The Franks.

                    This resulted in the full assimilation of the Slav remnants to the native Greek population of those areas. Nothing was left of them to show for. Its like they disappeared from the map.

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                    • Commander Bond
                      Junior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 72

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                      This resulted in the full assimilation of the Slav remnants to the native Greek population of those areas. Nothing was left of them to show for. Its like they disappeared from the map.
                      Get real mate.
                      The Slavic place names in the Peloponnese were changed to greek ones in roughly the last 100 years.

                      Take a look at this from the archives compiled by SOM back in 2008.

                      This can be a work in progress which I will update throughout the weeks and days, it was initiated by my self and largely brought close to completion by our member VMRO. I will also include the Albanian section of the topic eventually. Any Greeks or Albanians who who visit this forum and wish to dispute the Slavic nature of

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                      • Voltron
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1362

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Commander Bond View Post
                        Get real mate.
                        The Slavic place names in the Peloponnese were changed to greek ones in roughly the last 100 years.

                        Take a look at this from the archives compiled by SOM back in 2008.

                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...hread.php?t=37
                        Correct, toponyms were in place and we still have them.
                        Araxova is one example off the top of my head. We didnt change them all.
                        Here is Max Vasmer. http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/mv/index.html
                        Last edited by Voltron; 04-11-2011, 08:22 AM.

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                        • Voltron
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1362

                          #42
                          That does not change the fact that whatever Slavs that remained in Greece were fully absorbed by the Greek population. Aside from toponyms, there is nothing to suggest they were there.

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                          • makedonin
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1668

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                            That does not change the fact that whatever Slavs that remained in Greece were fully absorbed by the Greek population. Aside from toponyms, there is nothing to suggest they were there.
                            That also does not changes the fact that those "Slavs" that got "absorbed" in the Greek population can never ever be that what they now claim, that is people with 2400 years of continuity in the region and continuity of cultural heritage.

                            But that does not prevents them for claiming exactly such continuity and are using the same claim to dispute the Macedonians the right to call them Macedonians.

                            How does that make them look like? Your guess?
                            Last edited by makedonin; 04-11-2011, 08:52 AM.
                            To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

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                            • Voltron
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1362

                              #44
                              Do you consider evolution as a part of continuity ? I do.
                              So far there is evidence to show that even after the Slavic incursion into Greece, Greeks were still in numbers and still were existing. It does not show that there was any type of mass exterminiation. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that shows peacefull co-existance between the two. Which at one point merged into the Greek population leaving only their placenames. How is that not continuity ? Because there is a Slav variable in the mix ? Even if the total Slav population was over a quarter of Greece's total, I dont think that is enough to debunk continuity.

                              Comment

                              • makedonin
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 1668

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                                Do you consider evolution as a part of continuity ? I do.
                                Before we talk about evolution, define what you mean by the word!

                                Second, the official Greek line is that those "Slavs" came out of somewhere, thus they were not genuine of the region.

                                That begs the question, how did they evolved from "Slavs" into "Greeks"?
                                By assimilation? Cultural adoption?

                                Also the question would be, how does that makes them eligible to claim continuity of any kind, where of Greeks generally accept that they where other people and had another culture before they adopted the so called Greek culture?
                                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                                So far there is evidence to show that even after the Slavic incursion into Greece, Greeks were still in numbers and still were existing. It does not show that there was any type of mass exterminiation.
                                On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that shows peacefull co-existance between the two. Which at one point merged into the Greek population leaving only their placenames.
                                Well the same evidence you prefer to wave here exists in favor of the Macedonian claim of continuity too!

                                Why it should be acknowledged and accepted for the Greek but not for the Macedonian claim?
                                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                                How is that not continuity ? Because there is a Slav variable in the mix ? Even if the total Slav population was over a quarter of Greece's total, I dont think that is enough to debunk continuity.
                                In what way is it continuity for the Greekness of those "Slavs"?

                                They ought to have been something else before they decided to become something different!

                                Than they claim that what they actually adopted they were from time begin!

                                How is that continuity (uninterruptedness) for the Greekness of the "Slavs" in Greece?

                                Same goes for all those Vlachs, Albanians, Macedonians, Turks etc. that claim to be Greeks from time begin.
                                Last edited by makedonin; 04-11-2011, 09:23 AM.
                                To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

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