Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?

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  • Voltron
    Banned
    • Jan 2011
    • 1362

    Originally posted by Onur View Post
    Greeks of Byzantine and in 15-16th century, western travelers relates same story in their diaries and says that all the christians of central Anatolia are these converted Turks and even in 16th century, they say that all the christians speaks only Turkish in there.
    Thats Bullshit, there is no proof of that at all. I wont argue saying that some groups were indeed converted Turks but to say all christians is just hyperbole. Cappodocian Greeks are not the same as Karamanlides. Sorry.

    Comment

    • Stojacanec
      Member
      • Dec 2009
      • 809

      Originally posted by Voltron View Post
      Stojancec, if Greeks label you as Slavs its because you speak it. If our language was Slavic based than we would be Slavs as well. Has nothing to do with Genetics.
      Wrong Voltron. Greeks labelling us as Slavs based on the language we speak is only 1% of the total propaganda. The other 99% lies in tying the language with a (supposed) Slavic movement from the north in 6AD.

      You Greeks conveniently use today's language and population movements to remove any connection we may have from antiquity. Thereby labelling us as the newcomers to the land.

      The Greek identity model however is vastly different to the above. Rather modern greeks tie today's language to the similarities of antiquity thereby establishing a direct connection to the past. Population movements and other languages spoken in today’s Greece does not enter any mainstream theory or discussion.

      Comment

      • Voltron
        Banned
        • Jan 2011
        • 1362

        I happen to believe in the Slavic movement. That is a school of thought and I see no reason why that should spook people.

        If you are so obsessed with Antiquity why isnt it you never here about the Paoninians. They are right smack in the middle of ROM yet the focus is always about Macedonians, and then you question our propaganda.

        Population movements and other languages spoken in today’s Greece does not enter any mainstream theory or discussion.
        Thats also not true, it comes up. We call it assimilation something that a number of people have a hard time understanding.

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          SOM, here is a site that shows the variety of languages in Greece and some stats.



          Languages of Greece
          See language map.
          [See also SIL publications on the languages of Greece.]
          Hellenic Republic, Elliniki Dimokratia. 11,100,000. National or official language: Greek. Literacy rate: 94%–96%. Immigrant languages: Armenian (20,000), Assyrian Neo-Aramaic (2,000), Balkan Gagauz Turkish, English (8,000), Ladino (2,000), Northern Kurdish (22,500), Russian, Serbian, Urum, Western Farsi (10,000). Also includes Arabic (28,000). Information mainly from W. Browne 1989, 1998; B. Comrie 1987; R. Dawkins 1916; P. Trudgill and G. Tzavaras 1977. Blind population: 13,000 (1982 WCE). Deaf population: 42,600 to 634,565 (VanCleve 1986). Deaf institutions: 17. The number of individual languages listed for Greece is 16. Of those, 14 are living languages and 2 have no known speakers.

          Albanian, Arvanitika [aat] 50,000. Ethnic population: 150,000. Attica (Attiki), Boeotia (Viotia), south Euboea (Evia), and Salamis island (Salamina); Thrace; Peloponiso Peninsula, Arkadia; Athens; northwest Peloponnese and other areas in the Peloponnese; Andros north. Mainly rural. 300 villages. Alternate names: Arberichte, Arvanitic, Arvanitika. Dialects: Thracean Arvanitika, Northwestern Arvanitika, South Central Arvanitika. Partially intelligible with Albanian Tosk [als]. Dialects perceived as mutually unintelligible. Classification: Indo-European, Albanian, Tosk
          More information.

          Albanian, Tosk [als] 10,000 in Greece (2002 N. Nicholas). Epyrus region, village of Lehovo. Alternate names: Arvanitika, Camerija. Classification: Indo-European, Albanian, Tosk
          More information.

          Aromanian [rup] 50,000 in Greece (Salminen 1993). Population total all countries: 123,300. Ethnic population: 700,000 in Greece (Association of French Aromanians). North, Northwest Salonika, Pindus Mountains, Trikala area. Also in Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia. Alternate names: Armina, Arumanian, Macedo Romanian, Macedo-Rumanian, Vlach. Dialects: Structurally a distinct language from Mengleno Romanian [ruq] (F. Agard). It split from the other 3 Rumanian languages between 500 and 1000 A.D. Many dialects. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Eastern
          More information.

          Bulgarian [bul] 30,000 in Greece (1998 Greek Helsinki Monitor). Western Thrace, 3 departments, including Xanthi. Dialects: Pomak (Pomakci, Pomakika). Classification: Indo-European, Slavic, South, Eastern
          More information.

          Cappadocian Greek [cpg] Extinct. Dialects: Sille, Western Cappadocian, Pharasa. Similar to Pontic [pnt]. Even more distinct from Standard Greek [ell] than Pontic [pnt]. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Attic
          More information.

          Greek [ell] 10,700,000 in Greece (2002 census). Population total all countries: 13,084,490. Widespread, especially in Greek Macedonia. Also in Albania, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bulgaria, Canada, Congo, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Libya, Macedonia, Malawi, Mozambique, Paraguay, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation (Europe), Sierra Leone, South Africa, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey (Europe), Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States. Alternate names: Ellinika, Graecae, Grec, Greco, Neo-Hellenic, Romaic. Dialects: Katharevousa, Dimotiki, Saracatsan. Katharevousa is an archaic literary dialect, Dimotiki is the spoken literary dialect and now the official dialect. The Saracatsan are nomadic shepherds of northern Greece. The Greek of Italy and that of Corsica are probably separate languages (1992 R. Zamponi). In Cyprus, the dialect is reportedly more similar to Classical Greek [grc] in some vocabulary and grammar than that spoken in Greece, and to have many Arabic and Turkish [tur] loanwords. Lexical similarity: 84%–93% with Greek in Cyprus. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Attic
          More information.

          Greek Sign Language [gss] 42,600 (VanCleve 1986). Classification: Deaf sign language
          More information.

          Greek, Ancient [grc] Extinct. Dialects: Koine Greek, Classical Greek. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Attic
          More information.

          Pontic [pnt] 200,000 in Greece (Johnstone and Mandryk 2001). Population total all countries: 324,540. Throughout Macedonia, especially Salonica, a borough of Kalamaria. Also in Azerbaijan, Canada, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Russian Federation (Europe), Turkey (Europe), United States. Alternate names: Pontic Greek. Dialects: Standard Greek [ell] speakers cannot understand Pontic, and Pontic speakers reportedly do not understand or speak Standard Greek [ell]. Pontic clubs and centers exist in the Athens-Peiraeus suburbs. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Attic
          More information.

          Romani, Balkan [rmn] 40,000 in Greece (1996 B. Igla). 10,000 Arlija, 30,000 Greek Romani. Athens, Agia Varvara suburb, about 500 families. Dialects: Greek Romani, Arlija (Erli). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Romani, Balkan
          More information.

          Romani, Vlax [rmy] 1,000 in Greece. Alternate names: Romanés, Tsingani. Dialects: Lovari. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Romani, Vlax
          More information.

          Romanian, Megleno [ruq] 3,000 in Greece (2002 N. Nicholas). Population total all countries: 5,000. Kilkis Prefecture, Meglen region, north of Salonika. Also in Macedonia. Alternate names: Meglenite, Meglenitic. Dialects: Structurally a distinct language from Romanian [rom], Aromanian [rup], and Istro Romanian [ruo](F. Agard). Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Eastern
          More information.

          Romano-Greek [rge] 30 (2000). Alternate names: Hellenoromani. Dialects: Structured on Greek [ell] with heavy Romani lexicon. Classification: Mixed language, Greek-Romani Nearly extinct.
          More information.

          Slavic [mkd] 250,000 in Greece (2007 Boskov). Macedonia region, Florina, north Kastoria and Thessalonica prefectures. Alternate names: Macedonian, Macedonian Slavic. Classification: Indo-European, Slavic, South, Eastern
          More information.

          Tsakonian [tsd] 1,200 (1981 J. Werner). 300 are shepherds. Kastanitsa, Sitena, Prastos, Leonidi, Pramatefti, Sapounakeika, Tyros, Melana towns, possibly Korakovunio; Peloponnesos east coast. Isolated in summer in east Peloponnesus in mountains west of Leonidi; in winter Leonidi town area. Alternate names: Tsakonia. Dialects: Northern Tsakonian (Kastanista-Sitena), Southern Tsakonian (Leonidio-Prastos), Propontis Tsakonian (Vatka-Havoutsi). Derived from the Doric dialect spoken in Lakonia by ancient Spartans. Northern and Southern are reportedly mutually intelligible, but Propontis was more distinct, and more similar to Standard Greek. Not inherently intelligible with modern Greek (Voegelin and Voegelin 1977). Lexical similarity: 70% or less with Standard Greek [ell]. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Doric
          More information.

          Turkish [tur] 128,000 in Greece (1976 WA). Thrace and Aegean regions. Alternate names: Osmanli. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish
          More information.

          Comment

          • makgerman
            Member
            • Nov 2009
            • 145

            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
            I happen to believe in the Slavic movement. That is a school of thought and I see no reason why that should spook people.

            If you are so obsessed with Antiquity why isnt it you never here about the Paoninians. They are right smack in the middle of ROM yet the focus is always about Macedonians, and then you question our propaganda.



            Thats also not true, it comes up. We call it assimilation something that a number of people have a hard time understanding.
            It works both ways Voltron - I also happen to believe in the Vlach, Arvanti, Turkish, Slav etc movements in today's MOG, right smack in the middle of Modern Greece.

            That's why we question your propaganda Voltron. Oops I forgot you are all pure 100% Greeks.

            Comment

            • Voltron
              Banned
              • Jan 2011
              • 1362

              The underlying difference here is I dont deny it, just disagree to the impact and degree you put forth. Those movements of groups you mention is not exclusive to Greece either.

              Comment

              • Stojacanec
                Member
                • Dec 2009
                • 809

                Impact aside, your modern greek theory of the Macedonian language tries to justify a population displacement (slavic movement) whereas the greek language tries to justify a stagnant population.

                Which is wrong.

                Eg. small Anglo and Saxon tribes impact on indigenous people from the UK and now English is the most widely spoken language internationally.

                You Greeks are quick to point to a Slavic migration theory to justify today’s Macedonians or a tito created nation, depending on which side of the bed you get up from. But you are blinded by all the population movements in today’s Greece.

                I know you don’t deny it but conveniently sweep it under the carpet re identity, I think you called it assimilation. However in the same breath use the same strategy against Macedonians.

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  also bery easily try to assume other peoples identity ,history etc & claim it as greek Hellenising what a load of CRAP.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • tchaiku
                    Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 786

                    BUMP........
                    Does anyone here has an opinion about 1700s?
                    Last edited by tchaiku; 05-08-2018, 11:37 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Amphipolis
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 1328

                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      My opinion is as follows. I believe that the number of native Greek-speakers was actually significantly increased during the Ottoman Empire due to the cosy relations between the Porte and Patriarchate. At the time of modern Greece's creation, I would say that probably about 20-30% of the population (in the new state) were native Greek-speakers, while the rest were made up by Albanian, Vlach, Turkish, Roma and Slavic-speaking groups. The further south one went, in addition to certain coastal areas, the higher number of Greeks.
                      In the 1879 census Thessaly is not yet counted in, so it's the original 1830s part of Greece plus the Ionian Islands. In total only 3,5% of the population have a non-Greek "home language" and only 1,1% (edited) are not Orthodox Christians.



                      ==
                      Last edited by Amphipolis; 05-08-2018, 03:42 PM.

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        So only 0,9% of Orthodox Christians spoke a non Greek langauge. Seems legit.

                        Comment

                        • Amphipolis
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 1328

                          Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                          So only 0,9% of Orthodox Christians spoke a non Greek langauge. Seems legit.
                          No, this isn't how it goes. While languages are not mentioned or combination of religion/language, foreign speakers are given per municipality and it is implied Albanian is the main foreign language. Also Jews of Corfu seems to be a distinct group, so are Catholics (0,9%). More details on languages are given in the next censuses.

                          (pages 37-39) file is 148MB



                          Edit: Sorry, my previous number was wrong or I took it from a different year. In 1879 only 1,1% is not Orthodox Christian and this seems to be 0,9% Catholics and 0,16% Jews, probably the rest is Muslims.


                          ==
                          Last edited by Amphipolis; 05-08-2018, 03:43 PM.

                          Comment

                          • tchaiku
                            Member
                            • Nov 2016
                            • 786

                            I would assume that in Macedonia and Epirus 'native Greeks speakers' were less than 30% during 1700s.

                            Comment

                            • Amphipolis
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 1328

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