Interview with Nikola Karev 1903 I am Macedonian

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  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    #31
    I have transcripted the scanned pages of the English translation, for clarity I have entered the name of who says what and I have also adjusted the translation with Voltron's comments and my own.
    The text needs further refining, at least the last part of it.

    The top part of the Greek original is not translated into English, this must be done.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Are you Macedonian? I ask him.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -And subsequently Greek.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know about this, he answered, I am Macedonian.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Direct descendent lo Alexander the Great? I reply ironically.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -And what was Alexander of Macedon, I beg you?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know, but history says that he was Greek.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Then you, as his descendant are Greek.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] No, he answered.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -So, I ask him again, why, since you are already Greek,
    do you want to free yourself using Bulgaria?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -What Bulgaria, you mean the Committee?

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -My answer is that the Committee is not Bulgarian,
    and second, it seems that we lean towards Bulgaria
    because only they seem to be willing to help us.
    If Greece was doing the same, we would accept it with all our heart.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -We see Bulgarian protection only surface deep Bulgaria does not
    want to free you of Turkish slavery, but to subjugate you.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Hm! If Bulgaria intends to make us their province, it has made a poor estimate.
    Otherwise, we are not interested in what Bulgaria thinks, but pay attention to the
    following: "Are we achieving our aim?" Are we getting our freedom?
    We are not interested in whether we get freed by Greece or Bulgaria.
    The only thing anyone of them can get is our gratitude.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -All right, if you are freed, what do you want to be, an autonomy?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes, like it is in Switzerland, where three different tribes live in
    complete love and harmony.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but you know that that way you are doing a favour to
    the Panslavistic Etheria whose branch is the Committee?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -What kind of favour are we doing?

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -As you made it clear above, Macedonia is a Greek land,
    and if every Greek land requests that they be an autonomy,
    then this will lead to a weaker Greece, and that is what the Panslavistic Etheria wants.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Why do they want this?

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -So that one day it can subjugate both you and us,
    and therefore it wants to find us weak in order to achieve that more easily.

    For a moment Karev appeared absorbed in thought. I hurried to disrupt the silence.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Why do you not want to unite with Greece?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Because if Mora (Greece) takes us it will become one large country,
    and subsequently a monarchy. In that case many evils will emerge - first the monarchy
    and everything else that comes with it, and second, Greece will force us to wage war
    with Bulgana, which we do not want.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -What do you want?

    He pointed to his cap.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -We want a republic.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Democracy and friendship with Bulgaria?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Not only with Bulgaria. but with anyone who will help us become free.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -You want to unite with Bulgaria?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -No! No!

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Does the Committee teach you this too?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Then why does this Committee, which is so concerned
    about your independence, not seek protection from Greece, which has a greater
    responsibility to free you, but you have to lean towards these barbarians?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -I will answer you immediately. We resemble a man who has
    fallen in the sea and is in danger of drowning any moment. In order to save himself
    will this man not grab anything he finds before him at that moment, even a snake?
    We are in this kind of situation. Even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -But, why are you killing Greek first borns, priests, and teachers,
    if you have nothing special against anyone?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -These are lies, the Committee does not only kill Greeks,
    but Bulgarians and Serbs and Turks, and anyone who betrays.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -These are excuses for your sins. You destroyed many Greek patriots
    because they did not give money to your Committee.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -You, Greeks, like the others, are inventing these things.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Which others?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Well, those in Thessaloniki, you assigned people to do what
    they did in order to throw a shadow on the Committee.

    I could not hold back from laughing loud which made the owner, Tasku Kvata, curious, and he approached me.

    [TASKU KVATA] -What does he say, he asked me.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -I told him.

    [TASKU KVATA] -Hm! How else could one see that he is a thickheaded Bulgarian. If he was not Bulgarian,
    he would not be saying such words, especially now when the walls have ears.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes, yes, I say, Karev repeated -when a tree has broken the ground to sprout,
    why should it not be watered to grow?

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -And this tree to is only to be watered by Bulgaria now?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but you know what Bulgaria waters it with, poison towards Greece.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and has made us turn our
    branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us and to leave you whom we
    have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -What you say is the result of Bulgarian watering, because Greece has never
    stopped supporting you through literacy and weapons.

    And again Karev did not answer me.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -And what do you intend to do now? I asked him.

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -Nothing other than to continue the struggle.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but do you not know that behind that struggle there is a mean and dishonest war hiding?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -That does not interest us, it is enough that we achieve our aim.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -You mean by killing too?

    [NIKOLA KAREV] -If they are committed for the good of a people.

    [ION DRAGOUMIS] -You are right, the lessons you learnt are like the teachers who taught you...

    Karev did not answer me again. He stood and slowly went towards his room, while behind him every guest in the hotel commented his words on various ways.
    Macedonian Truth Organisation

    Comment

    • Daskalot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 4345

      #32
      Here is some more info related to the topic.
      It should also be noted that the diaries that Ion Dragoumis kept during the Ilinden uprising were recently published and make fascinating reading. See I.Dragoumis, The Ilinden Notebooks (Athens: Petziva, 2000).
      Macedonian Truth Organisation

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #33
        Do we have any more information about the "Ilinden Diaries"?
        It would be an interesting perspective to read I imagine.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          #34
          Nice job Daskale,

          In the beginning I wasnt sure if it was Ion that was conducting the interview. Thats why I kept saying interviewer. In any case, good job on the format of the interview.
          Karev seems like a very respectable figure, although he has no qualms in killing people to achieve his goal. Then again who didnt at the time. I agree with Risto, it really is an interesting perspective of that time.

          Every time I re-read the interview I have new questions, I will post a few later on.
          Last edited by Voltron; 07-02-2011, 06:58 AM.

          Comment

          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            #35
            The book is on sale in Greece, it is an 736 pages book.
            I assume that Lorenzo has had access to this book.

            Lorenzo do you own the book?

            Thank you.
            Voltron you being in Greece and all, could you visit a library or even buy it?
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

            Comment

            • Daskalot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 4345

              #36
              Voltron, could you translate the top part of the Greek original which is not translated, the part before the interview.
              Macedonian Truth Organisation

              Comment

              • Voltron
                Banned
                • Jan 2011
                • 1362

                #37
                Yes, there are a couple online sites where the book can be purchased



                Il look into the library question Daskalot. Nowadays with the IMF situation here in Greece, Im kind of strapped if you know what I mean. The 39 Euros is a half a tank of gas for my car.

                Comment

                • Voltron
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1362

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                  Voltron, could you translate the top part of the Greek original which is not translated, the part before the interview.

                  Ok, Il do my best when I get back.

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #39
                    if there is anything new on karev it will be intersting to see what was in his mind.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • Daskalot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 4345

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                      Ok, Il do my best when I get back.
                      Voltron, how is the translation coming along? Is it done yet? It cannot take more than 10 minutes to translate it
                      Macedonian Truth Organisation

                      Comment

                      • Voltron
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1362

                        #41
                        Ive been meaning to tell you Daskalot.
                        I looked at it, and didnt find the page you were referring too. I think you got it all.

                        Ok I saw the paragraph, give me a sec, youll have it.
                        Last edited by Voltron; 07-07-2011, 03:22 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                          Ive been meaning to tell you Daskalot.
                          I looked at it, and didnt find the page you were referring too. I think you got it all.
                          The top part of this page where it starts with 'APO VITOLIA' until Ion's first question 'Are you Macedonian'.
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • Voltron
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1362

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                            The top part of this page where it starts with 'APO VITOLIA' until Ion's first question 'Are you Macedonian'.
                            From Bitola I had the... pleasure and honor of meeting with a "Bulgarianised" Macedonian teacher, member of the "Commitee" named Karev.

                            With this man I met by chance in the Hotel of Monastiri or Otel Monastir as they say it in Bitola. First of all this gentleman was very hesitant towards me. Prior though we were introduced by a Greek from Krushovo Papagouda was his name.

                            Although there was some suspiscous glares on him (Karev), He didnt hesitate to tell me he was a Bulgarophone and member of the Committee.

                            Comment

                            • Daskalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 4345

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                              From Bitola I had the... pleasure and honor of meeting with a "Bulgarianised" Macedonian teacher, member of the "Commitee" named Karev.

                              With this man I met by chance in the Hotel of Monastiri or Otel Monastir as they say it in Bitola. First of all this gentleman was very hesitant towards me. Prior though we were introduced by a Greek from Krushovo Papagouda was his name.

                              Although there was some suspiscous glares on him (Karev), He didnt hesitate to tell me he was a Bulgarophone and member of the Committee.
                              Thank you Voltron, but you have made a little mistake, in the last sentence it is written BULGAROPHRONE not Bulgarophone, meaning Bulgar leaning not Bulgar sounding.
                              Macedonian Truth Organisation

                              Comment

                              • George S.
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 10116

                                #45
                                yeah what's taking so long to translate it??
                                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                                GOTSE DELCEV

                                Comment

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