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  • sydney
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 390

    Still waiting for the "third option" in Macedonia.

    Dragan - with the growing call for the fall of the "regime", what is the ideal leadership structure people are seeking?

    Comment

    • Karposh
      Member
      • Aug 2015
      • 863

      Originally posted by sydney View Post
      Still waiting for the "third option" in Macedonia.

      Dragan - with the growing call for the fall of the "regime", what is the ideal leadership structure people are seeking?
      I’m hearing you Sydney. I try not to weigh in on the current political debate in Macedonia because, frankly, I don’t know enough about it and any opinion I might have will be sure to offend someone, judging by just how passionately and firmly entrenched the opposing sides are.

      I don’t know about anyone else but I am tired of hearing about “bombi”, conspiracies, scandals, boycotts, staged protests/legitimate protests and the like. As someone not residing in Macedonia but sitting on the sidelines and observing from afar, I see a bunch of spoilt little brats (i.e. the Opposition Parties) behaving like little children and refusing to play because they know they stand no chance of winning so they cry foul. Think, a five year old kid spitting the dummy: “You’re all a bunch of cheaters and I’m not playing anymore”.

      This sort of behaviour is undermining the whole country and only weakening Macedonia internally and externally. And, as far as I’m concerned, it is nothing short of treason. I don’t think anyone is stopping them from throwing their hat in come the June elections but it is clear they are looking for excuses because they know they stand no chance of winning. The B.S. reasons for boycotting the elections are weak at best and disgracefully shameful at worst.

      The current government has been accused of being a dictatorship and, the little I have read up on, points to a desire by the west to have it ousted on this charge. Who knows, maybe there is a conspiracy to have Nikola Gruevski and VMRO DPMNE toppled by underhanded means involving the west, Zaev and his “bombi”. What will be gained by this? I’m thinking the west is looking for more flexibility from Zaev on the Greek/Macedonian name issue. Perhaps it has something to do with the Russian gas pipeline (I’ve heard that one too). Maybe it is even another step towards federalising the country and its eventual breakup. Maybe it is all of the above. Who knows?

      Like I said, I don’t know enough about the current goings on in Macedonia to make a really informed opinion and my following statements might seem a little simplistic, even ignorant, but I’m putting them out there all the same. Under the current political climate in which Macedonia is in, and since there is no viable “third option”, then, I don’t know, maybe a dictatorship is what is needed in Macedonia right now. A Macedonian dictatorship, which has Macedonia’s best interests at heart and will not sell out those interests to the highest bidder.

      Comment

      • Gocka
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2012
        • 2306

        Its been a while since I've visited the forum, mostly because I've been way to busy but also largely due to my utter disgust for my homeland. Lately I feel almost ashamed to be Macedonian. I've tried to follow the situation in Macedonia as closely as is possible form abroad, as usual relying on Macedonian "reporting" is next to useless, and even the average person on the ground is either completely apathetic, completely brainwashed, or has a vested interest. From the limited reliable information I've gotten, this is what I have learned:

        For some years now, two trends have been forming in ROM politically, SDSM was bleeding support because of an aging base, diminishing Yugo/Communist sentiment, unlikeable leaders, lack of a coherent agenda, and obviously backlash from former misdeeds. For years it was obvious that they were a shrinking force, and they made almost no attempts to reform or increase membership. Instead of figuring out what people want, and offering it to them, SDSM just decided they would run Anti VMRO, not anti VMRO policy but literally just anti VMRO. You cant tell voters that the only reason they should vote for you is just to vote against the other party, without giving any reasons why you deserve to be in power anymore than your opponent.

        On the flip side, for many years now, VMRO has also been able to entrench themselves into every institution within the country. One of the main reasons they were able to do this is because SDSM refused to act like a viable political party and it basically left VMRO unchallenged for way too long. VMRO were to put sympathizers into the police, the courts, the media and so on. They didn't take over by shear force. The longer they were unchecked the easier it was to eat up more influence and control around the country. This wasn't necessarily the plan, but it was a byproduct of the political landscape.

        Both sides became more entrenched and stuck to their respective game plans, then at some point outside actors thought they would get involved, whether with good intentions or malice remains to be seen, but as usual its probably neither, just a mix of arrogance, superiority, incompetence, and ignorance. The outside factor is being overblown by both sides to win political points.

        What the reality is right now, is that VMRO is breaking the laws of the country, interfering with the courts ability to prosecute, scaring government workers into voting for them for fear of being fired, intimidating media from reporting negatively about them, and using basically every institutions as a crutch to help them win elections. The reality is there are enough stupid and brainwashed people in Macedonia that even without all the above VMRO would still win an election. The other reality is that SDSM is a dead party who is trying to game the system and exert international pressure on VMRO to quit so they can take power unelected. Really what both parties are saying about each other is mostly true, but supports of opposite sides refuse to see the evil of their own. Most people actually are for neither one party or the other, but either wont vote, or will vote from peer pressure.

        Most people know that neither party is viable, but there is no third option. Its really hard to get any coverage in Macedonia because all the media is either sponsored by VMRO or SDSM. So naturally neither have any interest in discussing anyone but themselves or their nemesis.

        Macedonians need to pull an Iceland, and literally make their entire government resign, form local committees and run their own elections from scratch. The only real solution in Macedonia is to start from scratch.

        This cant happen until people realize that voting for someone just because they offer you a kickback or a job is wrong. For too long Macedonians have wanted it both ways, and they let their country get to the point of no return. Now if they want it to function normally again, sacrifices need to be made by everyone.

        Sadly it will probably get much worse before it gets any better. Macedonians need to learn some harsh lessons so they can learn to appreciate democracy and justice again.

        As a side note, keep an eye on our little Albanian friends, take note of how quite they have been though all of this. They are biding their time, and waiting for the perfect time to make a move. If Macedonians aren't careful, they might not even have a country anymore by the time this is all over with. The Albanians need only one more opportune moment to demand Federalization, and guess what, the West will give it to them if we don't.

        Comment

        • Tomche Makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2011
          • 1123

          Originally posted by sydney View Post
          Still waiting for the "third option" in Macedonia.
          As are we all, good to see you're still about
          “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

          Comment

          • Tomche Makedonche
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2011
            • 1123

            Originally posted by Gocka View Post
            Its been a while since I've visited the forum, mostly because I've been way to busy but also largely due to my utter disgust for my homeland. Lately I feel almost ashamed to be Macedonian. I've tried to follow the situation in Macedonia as closely as is possible form abroad, as usual relying on Macedonian "reporting" is next to useless, and even the average person on the ground is either completely apathetic, completely brainwashed, or has a vested interest. From the limited reliable information I've gotten, this is what I have learned:

            For some years now, two trends have been forming in ROM politically, SDSM was bleeding support because of an aging base, diminishing Yugo/Communist sentiment, unlikeable leaders, lack of a coherent agenda, and obviously backlash from former misdeeds. For years it was obvious that they were a shrinking force, and they made almost no attempts to reform or increase membership. Instead of figuring out what people want, and offering it to them, SDSM just decided they would run Anti VMRO, not anti VMRO policy but literally just anti VMRO. You cant tell voters that the only reason they should vote for you is just to vote against the other party, without giving any reasons why you deserve to be in power anymore than your opponent.

            On the flip side, for many years now, VMRO has also been able to entrench themselves into every institution within the country. One of the main reasons they were able to do this is because SDSM refused to act like a viable political party and it basically left VMRO unchallenged for way too long. VMRO were to put sympathizers into the police, the courts, the media and so on. They didn't take over by shear force. The longer they were unchecked the easier it was to eat up more influence and control around the country. This wasn't necessarily the plan, but it was a byproduct of the political landscape.

            Both sides became more entrenched and stuck to their respective game plans, then at some point outside actors thought they would get involved, whether with good intentions or malice remains to be seen, but as usual its probably neither, just a mix of arrogance, superiority, incompetence, and ignorance. The outside factor is being overblown by both sides to win political points.

            What the reality is right now, is that VMRO is breaking the laws of the country, interfering with the courts ability to prosecute, scaring government workers into voting for them for fear of being fired, intimidating media from reporting negatively about them, and using basically every institutions as a crutch to help them win elections. The reality is there are enough stupid and brainwashed people in Macedonia that even without all the above VMRO would still win an election. The other reality is that SDSM is a dead party who is trying to game the system and exert international pressure on VMRO to quit so they can take power unelected. Really what both parties are saying about each other is mostly true, but supports of opposite sides refuse to see the evil of their own. Most people actually are for neither one party or the other, but either wont vote, or will vote from peer pressure.

            Most people know that neither party is viable, but there is no third option. Its really hard to get any coverage in Macedonia because all the media is either sponsored by VMRO or SDSM. So naturally neither have any interest in discussing anyone but themselves or their nemesis.

            Macedonians need to pull an Iceland, and literally make their entire government resign, form local committees and run their own elections from scratch. The only real solution in Macedonia is to start from scratch.

            This cant happen until people realize that voting for someone just because they offer you a kickback or a job is wrong. For too long Macedonians have wanted it both ways, and they let their country get to the point of no return. Now if they want it to function normally again, sacrifices need to be made by everyone.

            Sadly it will probably get much worse before it gets any better. Macedonians need to learn some harsh lessons so they can learn to appreciate democracy and justice again.

            As a side note, keep an eye on our little Albanian friends, take note of how quite they have been though all of this. They are biding their time, and waiting for the perfect time to make a move. If Macedonians aren't careful, they might not even have a country anymore by the time this is all over with. The Albanians need only one more opportune moment to demand Federalization, and guess what, the West will give it to them if we don't.
            Good post, I share some similar thoughts re: the consequences that a protracted absence of any real opposition can cause. Likewise, good to hear from you again
            “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

            Comment

            • Tomche Makedonche
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2011
              • 1123

              Discontented with the current Albanian parties working in coalition with Macedonian ones, some Albanian intellectuals say it is time to consider the option turning Macedonia into a federation.


              Analysis 17 May 16 - Fatjona Mejdini

              Macedonia Albanians Make Push for Federal State

              Discontented with the current Albanian parties working in coalition with Macedonian ones, some Albanian intellectuals say it is time to consider the option turning Macedonia into a federation.

              Intellectuals and others who have contributed towards the rights of Albanians in Macedonia say it is time to find new ways for an ethnic community comprising around 30 per cent of the population to organize itself afresh within the Macedonian state.

              At a time where the country is being swept by political crises and by institutional stalemate, these Albanian voices say the way they have been represented for the last 25 years in Macedonia has to change, as they still feel like second-class citizens, with little rights.

              The creation of a federal state or a parliament with two chambers are seen as two possible ways to give the two main communities in Macedonia equal rights.

              However, the majority of Albanians are also clear that before pioneering new forms of organization they first have to unite with each other.

              They are disappointed with the main Albanian parties that have represented them in government or opposition in the past, and have little trust even in newly formed parties.

              Nijazi Muhamedi, an author and publicist living in Tetovo, told BIRN that now is the time for Albanians in Macedonia to unite in a kind of league that will bring about a social, cultural and economic awakening.

              "We need a unification league, where Albanian political representatives in a unified way can elaborate a political and economic program for the Albanians in Macedonia and later think about the ways in which this program can be implemented," he said.

              Discontended with implementation of Ohrid agreement, which ended the armed conflict between Macedonian security forces and ethnic Albanian guerrillas in 2001, they believe that a new deal is necessary.

              Disappointed with old Albanian parties:

              Teuta Kamberi Llalla was 24 when she quit her job as assistant professor in Tetovo University and left to fight the Macedonian security forces in northwest Macedonia.

              Her brother had left to fight with the guerillas before her, and many their relatives and friends did the same.

              Fifteen years after the 2001 conflict, she believes the Albanian political parties lost all their ideals and sacrifices at the table of political agreements.

              Now an activist for Albanian issues, far from the political parties, Llalla told BIRN that parties like the ruling Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, had "privatized" and abused the gains of the war in 2001.

              "The DUI took all the credit from the war, at a time when most of the people now ruling the party were not even present during the war itself," she said.

              "They have privatized the contribution of all of Albanians in Macedonia; they made the war their private property," she added.

              For Llalla, the Ohrid agreement was never fulfilled and the Albanian politicians have disappointed the people who trusted that after the war they would have more rights.

              Nevzat Halili, leader of the first Albanian party in Macedonia, the Party of Democratic Prosperity, PDP told BIRN that the ethnic Albanian politicians in Macedonia have followed only their own interests.

              "None of the requests made by Albanians during the 2001 conflict was fully met and the parties never respected the 90 martyrs and other civilians killed in the war. They have pursued the personal interest of people... and have lied to Albanians for a long time," he said.

              Some of these Albanians do not believe the situation with their rights will change much because of the newer political parties have emerged on the political scene.

              "These new parties are being used by the Macedonian opposition - and they just contribute to the further division of the Albanian political factor in the country," Nijazi Muhamedi told BIRN.

              Federation might bring about equality:

              Teuta Kamberi Llalla believes Albanians in Macedonia can feel equal and free only once the structure of the state is changed fundamentally.

              "It has been proven for years now that the collaboration of Albanians with the Macedonian parties is not bringing about either prosperity or equality. Albanians are still second-class citizens," she said.

              "To achieve our rights, we either have to create a parliament with two chambers or a federative state, in order for us to be equal partners, and not give the Macedonian party the right to choose which of the Albanian parties they will take into government," she continued.

              Nevzat Halili told BIRN that the bi-national state in Macedonia might be difficult to be implement, which is why a federal state like Switzerland or Belgium could be the better option.

              "States in Europe that have the same ethnic structure have been organized as federations, so this could be a sustainable solution - for equality and prosperity," he concluded.
              “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

              Comment

              • Gocka
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 2306

                Thanks Tomche, its nice to be back

                Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                Good post, I share some similar thoughts re: the consequences that a protracted absence of any real opposition can cause. Likewise, good to hear from you again
                And there it is. If only our ovci had as much sense and planning as these mugs.

                Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ion-05-16-2016

                Analysis 17 May 16 - Fatjona Mejdini

                Macedonia Albanians Make Push for Federal State

                Discontented with the current Albanian parties working in coalition with Macedonian ones, some Albanian intellectuals say it is time to consider the option turning Macedonia into a federation.

                Intellectuals and others who have contributed towards the rights of Albanians in Macedonia say it is time to find new ways for an ethnic community comprising around 30 per cent of the population to organize itself afresh within the Macedonian state.

                At a time where the country is being swept by political crises and by institutional stalemate, these Albanian voices say the way they have been represented for the last 25 years in Macedonia has to change, as they still feel like second-class citizens, with little rights.

                The creation of a federal state or a parliament with two chambers are seen as two possible ways to give the two main communities in Macedonia equal rights.

                However, the majority of Albanians are also clear that before pioneering new forms of organization they first have to unite with each other.

                They are disappointed with the main Albanian parties that have represented them in government or opposition in the past, and have little trust even in newly formed parties.

                Nijazi Muhamedi, an author and publicist living in Tetovo, told BIRN that now is the time for Albanians in Macedonia to unite in a kind of league that will bring about a social, cultural and economic awakening.

                "We need a unification league, where Albanian political representatives in a unified way can elaborate a political and economic program for the Albanians in Macedonia and later think about the ways in which this program can be implemented," he said.

                Discontended with implementation of Ohrid agreement, which ended the armed conflict between Macedonian security forces and ethnic Albanian guerrillas in 2001, they believe that a new deal is necessary.

                Disappointed with old Albanian parties:

                Teuta Kamberi Llalla was 24 when she quit her job as assistant professor in Tetovo University and left to fight the Macedonian security forces in northwest Macedonia.

                Her brother had left to fight with the guerillas before her, and many their relatives and friends did the same.

                Fifteen years after the 2001 conflict, she believes the Albanian political parties lost all their ideals and sacrifices at the table of political agreements.

                Now an activist for Albanian issues, far from the political parties, Llalla told BIRN that parties like the ruling Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, had "privatized" and abused the gains of the war in 2001.

                "The DUI took all the credit from the war, at a time when most of the people now ruling the party were not even present during the war itself," she said.

                "They have privatized the contribution of all of Albanians in Macedonia; they made the war their private property," she added.

                For Llalla, the Ohrid agreement was never fulfilled and the Albanian politicians have disappointed the people who trusted that after the war they would have more rights.

                Nevzat Halili, leader of the first Albanian party in Macedonia, the Party of Democratic Prosperity, PDP told BIRN that the ethnic Albanian politicians in Macedonia have followed only their own interests.

                "None of the requests made by Albanians during the 2001 conflict was fully met and the parties never respected the 90 martyrs and other civilians killed in the war. They have pursued the personal interest of people... and have lied to Albanians for a long time," he said.

                Some of these Albanians do not believe the situation with their rights will change much because of the newer political parties have emerged on the political scene.

                "These new parties are being used by the Macedonian opposition - and they just contribute to the further division of the Albanian political factor in the country," Nijazi Muhamedi told BIRN.

                Federation might bring about equality:

                Teuta Kamberi Llalla believes Albanians in Macedonia can feel equal and free only once the structure of the state is changed fundamentally.

                "It has been proven for years now that the collaboration of Albanians with the Macedonian parties is not bringing about either prosperity or equality. Albanians are still second-class citizens," she said.

                "To achieve our rights, we either have to create a parliament with two chambers or a federative state, in order for us to be equal partners, and not give the Macedonian party the right to choose which of the Albanian parties they will take into government," she continued.

                Nevzat Halili told BIRN that the bi-national state in Macedonia might be difficult to be implement, which is why a federal state like Switzerland or Belgium could be the better option.

                "States in Europe that have the same ethnic structure have been organized as federations, so this could be a sustainable solution - for equality and prosperity," he concluded.

                Comment

                • Tomche Makedonche
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 1123



                  Wed May 18, 2016 1:28pm EDT

                  Macedonia's parliament cancels June election

                  The Macedonian parliament on Wednesday called off a national election set for June 5 after most of the main political parties threatened to boycott the vote amid growing anger over a government wire-tapping scandal.

                  Amending the electoral law, the assembly did not set a new date for the vote, which had been called last month as part of a European Union-brokered deal to end political deadlock linked to the scandal.

                  But after more than 50 people implicated in the scandal received official pardons, three out of four political parties had said they would boycott the election. They argued that conditions did not exist for a free and fair vote, leaving the ruling VMRO-DPMNE party as the only one taking part.

                  The European Union, which Macedonia aspires to join, had also questioned the legitimacy of the election and has expressed concerns about the rule of law and democracy in the Balkan country.

                  Earlier on Wednesday Macedonia's top court had suspended all activities related to the election pending its ruling on whether the dissolution of parliament in April was in line with the constitution, the state news agency MIA reported.

                  NATO warned Macedonia not to let its political crisis wreck its hopes of joining the Atlantic alliance.

                  The West sees binding Macedonia and other poor Balkan states into both NATO and the EU as the best way of bringing stability and prosperity to a region long blighted by ethnic tensions, poverty and corruption.

                  The tiny ex-Yugoslav republic has been in turmoil since February 2015, when the opposition accused then-Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and his counter-intelligence chief of wiretapping more than 20,000 people.

                  The wire-tapping exposed tight government control over journalists, judges and the conduct of elections.

                  Macedonians have been protesting on a daily basis since President Gjorge Ivanov last month pardoned 56 officials involved in the scandal.

                  The EU has threatened sanctions against Macedonian politicians it accuses of obstructing efforts to end the crisis.

                  Earlier this month, the central bank governor said growth in Macedonia's economy could be slashed by more than half to 1.6 percent in 2016 if the political crisis is not resolved by the end of the year.

                  (Writing by Daria Sito-Sucic; Editing by Giles Elgood and Gareth Jones)
                  “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                  Comment

                  • Tomche Makedonche
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 1123



                    May 18, 2016 6:31 pm - Andrew Byrne in Budapest

                    Macedonia court halts early election in blow to ruling party

                    Western mediators welcomed a decision by a Macedonian court to strike down plans for early elections, in a blow to the ruling VMRO party which was the only major party registered to participate.

                    The Balkan country’s constitutional court ruled on Wednesday that the dissolution of parliament had been unconstitutional, in effect halting preparations for the poll on June 5.

                    The elections were planned as part of an EU-mediated agreement to resolve a year-long crisis. It began when the opposition alleged that Nikola Gruevski, former prime minister, and his counter-intelligence chief had arranged the wiretapping of thousands of people, enabling them to influence the media, courts and elections.

                    With institutions paralysed, Mr Gruevski resigned this year and agreed that a caretaker administration would take over in line with the so-called Przino Agreement. This had set out a plan for investigating the allegations.

                    But Brussels said conditions for credible elections had not yet been created. It also criticised the government’s failure to deliver on commitments to clean up voter lists and to foster balanced media coverage.

                    Other parties, notably the socialist SDSM party, had refused to register for the elections, citing unreliable voter registration lists.

                    Pro and anti-government demonstrators have held daily protests on the streets of the capital Skopje for more than a month and the US-based Freedom House think-tank recently downgraded the status of the country’s democracy to “not free”.

                    In a joint statement, Federica Mogherini, EU foreign policy chief, and Johannes Hahn, the bloc’s enlargement commissioner, welcomed Wednesday’s court ruling. They urged the warring parties in the former Yugoslav republic to prepare for credible elections at a later date.

                    “This is a renewed opportunity for the country to address a number of serious issues at the heart of the prolonged political crisis,” they said.

                    This is a renewed opportunity for the country to address a number of serious issues at the heart of the prolonged political crisis
                    - From statement by Federica Mogherini and Johannes Hahn

                    The statement also condemned last month’s pre-emptive amnesty issued by Gjorge Ivanov, Macedonia’s president, for dozens of senior figures under investigation by Katica Janeva, the special prosecutor, for election fraud and illegal wiretapping.

                    “The April 12 pardons should be rescinded without delay to preserve the principle of accountability, counteract serious concerns about impunity and avoid selective justice. It is a fundamental democratic principle that all citizens should be equal before the law.”

                    The US embassy in Skopje echoed the call for reforms and warned against efforts to obstruct Ms Janeva’s work.

                    Analysts said the crisis, combined with repeated violations of the EU-mediated Przino Agreement, had undermined the country’s EU and Nato membership ambitions and that Mr Gruevski’s authoritarian tendencies had deepened.

                    Kurt Bassuener, senior associate at the Democratisation Policy Council, a Sarajevo-based think-tank said: “There has been a tendency in western strategy in Macedonia, and elsewhere in the Balkans, to prioritise political stability above all else. That has suited leaders who want to preserve their own position — often at the expense of democratic reforms.”

                    Mr Gruevski, who denies any wrongdoing, has claimed that taped phone conversations allegedly implicating his government in election fraud were forged by the country’s enemies.

                    The European Commission said the EU was ready to assist political leaders in talks but emphasised the parties themselves were responsible for resolving the impasse. “Recent actions and any further inaction now will have serious consequences.”
                    “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                      http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ion-05-16-2016

                      Analysis 17 May 16 - Fatjona Mejdini

                      Macedonia Albanians Make Push for Federal State
                      It is ripe for it.
                      It has been planted for a while.
                      It has been watered and fertilised very well.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Gocka
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 2306

                        Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this meant that without elections, isn't Macedonia currently ruled by an unelected, EU brokered caretaker government? If that is the case isn't there potential for this "caretaker" government to be in power indefinitely if "proper" conditions for elections are never met?

                        Who comprises this caretaker government?

                        Comment

                        • DraganOfStip
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 1253

                          Some people in Macedonia may find this person biased (mainly DPMNE members/sympathizers) but everything he wrote here is spot on.
                          This guy knows what he's talking about.

                          ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                          ― George Orwell

                          Comment

                          • Gocka
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 2306

                            Dragan,

                            Do you think the sentiment of the average Macedonian toward both political parties is slowly changing? Are people at all coming to the realization that both parties need to go? I keep getting mixed messages form people I know. For the most part, I still seems like people are digging their heels in and still supporting their side and blaming the other.

                            Comment

                            • DraganOfStip
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 1253

                              Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                              Dragan,

                              Do you think the sentiment of the average Macedonian toward both political parties is slowly changing? Are people at all coming to the realization that both parties need to go? I keep getting mixed messages form people I know. For the most part, I still seems like people are digging their heels in and still supporting their side and blaming the other.
                              The youth here is too tired and stressed out to care for either DPMNE or SDSM.They see the reality - lowest standard of living in Europe,a struggle to make ends meet and general apathy towards everything.
                              For them the way out is moving abroad,simple as that.If you can do it with a Macedonian passport fine,it is better,but if not they don't think twice to get a Bulgarian passport in a blink of an eye and end their misery here.
                              And I don't blame them.I'm just waiting for the opportunity to get the hell out of this shithole myself.

                              But you also have the party-employed people (that have grown several times in numbers in the past 10 years or so and represent the electoral body) that have to follow party lines in order to keep their jobs,even though they know that their party policy is wrong.They simply do it so that they don't have to move out too.I could see this in their eyes during the protests.The high-ranking DPMNEists that got the best paid jobs walked proud with their heads up in the front lines of the counterprotests,but the rest kept their heads down in shame,you knew they're there against their will and only to repay the party for employing them.To counter them,there are people that know the regime is corrupt and will be defeated eventually,and therefore hope to get those same state jobs when (or should I say IF) SDSM comes to power.

                              And then you have the worst of all - the party fanatics.These are the scum of the society.If they see Grujo or Zajko with their hands in the cookie jar with their own eyes,they will deny it.They're THAT blind.

                              Overall I hope after all this ends people will realize they have no future with both DPMNE and SDSM.They had their chances and squandered them.Let some fresh blood have a shot at leading this country for a change,it might be a risky move but hey,you never know.It's like that story with the mommy and baby eagle.The time had come for the baby eagle to have his first shot at swinging his wings and flying but was scared and reluctant to leave the safety of a warm nest.He said to his mom "I don't want to do it,I'm scared.What if I fall?".And his mother said "oh sweetie,but what if you fly?"
                              Last edited by DraganOfStip; 05-20-2016, 03:11 AM.
                              ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                              ― George Orwell

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                              • Gocka
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2012
                                • 2306

                                Here is what I could never understand, and this could potentially apply to you to Dragan.

                                Leaving your place of birth and starting a new life in a foreign land is really hard, regardless of how much better the new destination country is, starting a life from scratch is difficult and also has no guarantees. I have a couple family members that have come to like here in the USA permanently, and they are finding it very hard to prosper. They have jobs, pretty decent paying jobs in comparison to Macedonian standard, but when you come here with nothing, and have to work non stop just to sustain a living, you are left i a similar situation to the one you ran away from, except now you have no life either. Things are what they used to be in many western countries either. The point I am making is, in my opinion, it seems actually easier to fix Macedonia then to try and start over somewhere else.

                                Macedonia has the potential to give people a better life than the one they would get abroad. If both parties are rejected, and Macedonians really want to, they can have a real democracy over night. Sometimes we try so hard to search for something and its right in our face the whole time.

                                I just wish Macedonians would for a second band together and try to fix what the have. I might not be as hard as people think, and like you said, you might just fly.



                                Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                                The youth here is too tired and stressed out to care for either DPMNE or SDSM.They see the reality - lowest standard of living in Europe,a struggle to make ends meet and general apathy towards everything.
                                For them the way out is moving abroad,simple as that.If you can do it with a Macedonian passport fine,it is better,but if not they don't think twice to get a Bulgarian passport in a blink of an eye and end their misery here.
                                And I don't blame them.I'm just waiting for the opportunity to get the hell out of this shithole myself.

                                But you also have the party-employed people (that have grown several times in numbers in the past 10 years or so and represent the electoral body) that have to follow party lines in order to keep their jobs,even though they know that their party policy is wrong.They simply do it so that they don't have to move out too.I could see this in their eyes during the protests.The high-ranking DPMNEists that got the best paid jobs walked proud with their heads up in the front lines of the counterprotests,but the rest kept their heads down in shame,you knew they're there against their will and only to repay the party for employing them.To counter them,there are people that know the regime is corrupt and will be defeated eventually,and therefore hope to get those same state jobs when (or should I say IF) SDSM comes to power.

                                And then you have the worst of all - the party fanatics.These are the scum of the society.If they see Grujo or Zajko with their hands in the cookie jar with their own eyes,they will deny it.They're THAT blind.

                                Overall I hope after all this ends people will realize they have no future with both DPMNE and SDSM.They had their chances and squandered them.Let some fresh blood have a shot at leading this country for a change,it might be a risky move but hey,you never know.It's like that story with the mommy and baby eagle.The time had come for the baby eagle to have his first shot at swinging his wings and flying but was scared and reluctant to leave the safety of a warm nest.He said to his mom "I don't want to do it,I'm scared.What if I fall?".And his mother said "oh sweetie,but what if you fly?"

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